BOLD SOUL could use a hand...PAYPAL SURVEY

[Bold Soul]

We're considering standardizing on PayPal for our commerce engine. If any of you have experienced PayPal's operation, please respond to the survey.

Thanks yall!

[Bold Soul]

You all are the best! Know we're busting ass in the Lab for all of you!

D

[AD]

I have a PayPal account or have used PayPal to make purchases from websites. Yes



I find the user experience of transacting via PayPal to be: Different than the average ecommerce experience.



PayPal gives the impression that: If it is an item I want and the transaction is secure, I don't care.

[ October 18, 2003, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Albert Diaz ]

[John Hall]

Like any large banking corporation, Paypal is a necessary evil.

I've been using them since the beginning of 2002,
and had zero problems.

To be frank, I trust PayPal a helluva lot more
than I trust most ecommerce sites.

I've worked for at least one record store that
was totally careless with folks' credit-card numbers:
The supposedly secure ecommerce site that feeds them
most of their mail order business is "secure" at the user end, but then the m-f-ers email the
complete credit-card number UN-ENCRYPED to the
actual store where the orders are picked and packed!

THEN, to add insult to injury, these bozos PRINT-OUT the email with the "customers" info, including what was ordered
AND
the COMPLETE CREDIT CARD NUMBER, including exp. date
and verification code.

THEN, these folks crumple up the printed-out info,
and toss it without shredding it!!!
So that any SMART dumpster diver can go through
their trash and effortlessly perform identity theft!!!

mad1.gif mad1.gif mad1.gif

PLUS, I worked as a security guard for a major
HMO, (Health insurance company) that also routinely
tossed out hundreds of pages of confidential patient
information, with full Social Security Numbers,
contact info, and even medical histories.

graemlins/cussing.gif

So my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE over the past few years
leads me to suspect ANY ecommerce site as un-trustworthy.

THAT'S WHY I LOVE PAYPAL.

I don't have to worry about some totally un-ethical and
clueless "On-line business" having access to my
banking info.

Now PayPal is basically a monopoly, and they will
fnck with your bank account in the case of a chargeback,
SO, make sure you have a completely seperate bank
account for your personal/business needs.
The accepted ways to do this among the ecommerce cognescenti is to have
A Credit Union Bank account, and a SEPERATE
Commercial Bank account.
Use ONE of these two as the checking account that
backs up your PayPal account.
This way, if PayPal decides to "freeze" your
account due to a large chargeback, your funds
will still be available from the other account.
Trust me, this is a common scenario if you ever
have problems with scammers charging-back on large
purchases.

On the plus side,
I LOVE getting paid instantly via PayPal on my
eBay auctions...the $ is immediately reflected in
my handy PayPal debit card, and I can go to the
post office and ship the record, and even get
"Cash Back" with no service fee while paying the
Postal Clerk with my debit card.

On the negative side,
PayPal fees add up, and they're about the same
as having a merchant account, minus all the
merchant account headaches of hidden fees, renting
or buying the terminal, needing an extra phone line, etc etc.

And to end on a positive note:
In this age of MASSIVE AMMOUNTS OF IDENTITY THEFT,
you can be sure you'll get more business from
savvy and security conscious customers than
if you use a regular merchant account.

Hope that helps, it's all just my biased personal
opinion, but based on selling on eBay since 1999,
and on using paypal since January of 2002.

DISCLAIMER: I don't own any PayPal stock, and I
NEVER collect any PayPal referral fees...
In fact I'D LOVE to see someone come up and give
them a little (A LOT OF) Competition, but face it,
they're the 800 pound gorilla of online payment processing.

[Bold Soul]

Thanks for the data John! Most appreciated!

[Bold Soul]

Anyone not happy with PayPal enabled sites?

[The Compiler]

PAYPAL ignorance screwed me out of money. I sold a CD to an asian user for 100 dollars on ebay. THREE DAYS after the auction ended the user filed a fraudulent claim that I had not shipped the CD and wanted a refund. Now common sense dictates that a CD would not get to Asia from Bklyn, NY within 3 days. All paypal provides as proof of me having sent the item is to put in a tracking number. I CHOSE FIRST CLASS AIR to send- there is no tracking number. The USPS does give you a receipt with the date you sent the item AND the destination (with zip code). Had paypal chosen COMMON SENSE- to realize that a package had no chance to get to its destination in 3 days AND that the USPS offers MANY ways to verify having sent items- I would not have gotten screwed. BUT PAYPAL ONLY OFFERS ONE METHOD OF VERIFICATION.

I pointed out that apparently the user had pulled the stunt BEFORE on ebay. And in the 3 day period (since they filed against me) had been THROWN OFF EBAY. Guess what? I STILL GOT SCREWED.....I use paypal as a neccessary evil. But I do not like it and FUCJK "DOUG", the assWHOLE I spoke to on the phone at paypal. I hope that that bastard is out of a job and his wife has to suck dick on the street to buy bread.
Hope you enjoyed my paypal memories as much as I did.

[5haus]

i've never had any problems with them & they may have become better since they got affiliated with ebay, but check this:

http://paypalsucks.com/

[ October 19, 2003, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: 5haus ]

[Bold Soul]

Thanks for participating everyone.

Q (for those who find PayPal negative) - is it the actual PayPal experience that is unsavory or the customer service failures of those who use PayPal for order processing?

[John Hall]

Originally posted by The Compiler:
PAYPAL ignorance screwed me out of money. I sold a CD to an asian user for 100 dollars on ebay. THREE DAYS after the auction ended the user filed a fraudulent claim that I had not shipped the CD and wanted a refund. Now common sense dictates that a CD would not get to Asia from Bklyn, NY within 3 days. All paypal provides as proof of me having sent the item is to put in a tracking number. I CHOSE FIRST CLASS AIR to send- there is no tracking number. The USPS does give you a receipt with the date you sent the item AND the destination (with zip code). Had paypal chosen COMMON SENSE- to realize that a package had no chance to get to its destination in 3 days AND that the USPS offers MANY ways to verify having sent items- I would not have gotten screwed. BUT PAYPAL ONLY OFFERS ONE METHOD OF VERIFICATION.

I pointed out that apparently the user had pulled the stunt BEFORE on ebay. And in the 3 day period (since they filed against me) had been THROWN OFF EBAY. Guess what? I STILL GOT SCREWED.....I use paypal as a neccessary evil. But I do not like it and FUCJK "DOUG", the assWHOLE I spoke to on the phone at paypal. I hope that that bastard is out of a job and his wife has to suck dick on the street to buy bread.
Hope you enjoyed my paypal memories as much as I did. I hear ya Compiler!

I strongly suggest you spend some time perusing
the newsgroup alt.marketing.online.ebay and
use groups.google.com to check them out and search
for articles about this kind of situation.
Bottom line is:
PayPal clearly spells out their rules, and you can't
expect them to bend the rules when you get screwed
by an scammer...after all, PayPal is also losing
millions of $ in fraudulent transactions.

I'm pretty sure that PayPal actually offers
MORE protection to sellers than merchant account
banks do.
And the fees are better overall.

Sorry to hear about the loss.
I NEVER ship to an "unconfirmed address" if the
item I've sold is very expensive, ESPECIALLY
overseas.
At least within the US you can file postal fraud
complaints with the USPS Postal Police and the
FTC, plus the local preciinct and the precinct
your scammer is in.

[Tony Cano]

as pointed out, be sure to keep track of proof of delivery. otherwise, paypal will hijack your account until you prove yourself innocent. they are pretty fair. bad thing is, you can not get proof of delivery when shiping overseas.

[John Hall]

Originally posted by Tony Cano:
as pointed out, be sure to keep track of proof of delivery. otherwise, paypal will hijack your account until you prove yourself innocent. they are pretty fair. bad thing is, you can not get proof of delivery when shiping overseas. Hi Tony; actually there are several ways to get
proof of delivery when shipping overseas from the
USA. USPS has been offering a cheap form of delivery
confirmation to some countries, and I believe they'll be offering it even more.
Check the usps.com website carefully next time
you're pricing a shipment via air-letter post
to Germany, for example.

Here's the page where the USPS offers "Recorded
Delivery" for $2.30 extra, on a 1 lb. 2 oz. air-letter post
package (typical 12" single in proper packaging)
that's going from the USA to Germany:

http://snurl.com/2q6f


Paypal has a list of requirements for "acceptable"
tracking, but I can't find it right now.

AND, I'm not sure if PayPal considers Recorded
Delivery to be adequate to protect you from
fraudulent chargebacks, but I'm sure gonna find out!

Here is a very useful groups.google search that
will have a lot of good info: you'll really have
to read some of the newsgroup threads carefully,
but it's worth it:

http://snurl.com/2q69

Exress Mail is tracked, and so is UPS international, but those services are
VERY EXPENSIVE!

USPS is thankfully starting to offer cheaper tracking
for international shipments.

[ October 19, 2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: John Hall ]

[Tony Cano]

Thanks John - will look up the info.

tc

[assholes delight]

Had an issue with Paypal/1200's.com
From a dealers perspective Paypal is quick and efficent.

[djklas]

Danny, just took the survay...
we are dealing with this at work for one of our sites... I use paypal, but for people that don't already and want to use it to pay for just one item, I think it is alot for them to go throught to give all their info to set up a paypal account. I hope the process dosen't frustrate any prospective customers...

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by djklas:
Danny, just took the survay...
we are dealing with this at work for one of our sites... I use paypal, but for people that don't already and want to use it to pay for just one item, I think it is alot for them to go throught to give all their info to set up a paypal account. I hope the process dosen't frustrate any prospective customers... I've been considering how to improve the customer experience since we decided to examine it as an option.

[Bold Soul]

Great responses. Thanks everyone!