Question for producers out there

[Querck]

What is your creative process when you work with a vocalist? Do you write the song and the lyrics, or does the vocalist take part in it, or do you let the vocalist come up with something entirely on her own based on the track you have made?

Any input would be highly appreciated, as I am struggling with this right now, for the first time.

[beaniboy67]

Originally posted by dannyboy:
What is your creative process when you work with a vocalist? Do you write the song and the lyrics, or does the vocalist take part in it, or do you let the vocalist come up with something entirely on her own based on the track you have made?

Any input would be highly appreciated, as I am struggling with this right now, for the first time. I wouldnt say im a producer as such but i played in an indie rock/pop band for 6 years.I suppose it would all depend on the vocalist.id imagine a lot of vocalists would not like to freestyle over a tune where as others would enjoy it.maybe you should have some ideas in mind.record them on a dictafone or onto pc and then play around with them in different positions in the track.Or even give the vocalist them and let her adapt and flow with it till she gets the melody correct.

Sometimes it easy for another person to nail a melody than it is for the person whose wrote the music too.

If i was you id give hera copy of the trak for a few days and let her come up with ideas!

You do the same then sit down together and talk about it!!

Goood luck!!!!!!!!

[dennis f]

this is a bit of a tough one. You see I am a bit more of a songwriter/producer as I write the lyrics to just about all of the songs on my records. Basically what it comes down to is what you can honestly say you've got a knack for. If you have the ability to write songs in a short time and you can honestly say they're not cheesy, by comparing them to other songs out there, then by all means do it because the advantages to the publishing side of things is incredible once you've established a catalog.
When I'm doing a track I usually have an idea of how my song should be sung and which vocalist and their style would fit the tune. I think that's one of the most important rules.
On the issue of letting someone write to the song...that's a bit difficult for me sometimes because of the direction and vision that was on my mind at the time somehow sometimes doesn't seem to grab the vocalist the same way and they write something totally different for me. Which at times can be a pleasant surprise but 90% of the time it's a no go. Plus time is money and the more time you spend on a tune the less money you make. Not to mention the break in the creative flow that'll mess you up for a minute.
Now if you have your own song what I do like to do is let the vocalist kind of sing it the way they feel. Meaning the song is usually set in it's melodic way.....but I allow them to do all the riffing and inflections their hearts desire. Note: Do not and I mean do not record they're vox's by verse than stop and then do the chorus's and then stop and do the second verse and etc.....this totally kills their vibe! I rather let them learn and run through all the verses in one pass but I make multiple passes about 5 then comp the best ones...don't forget to do about 3 adlib passes, you'll need em later. Hint: Record the chorus's first..it gives you and them inspiration, you might here that one thing you want to put in it, plus it lets them riff and get moody!LOL Above all make it a pleasant and comfortable situation (a little catering is always nice) as they're real kinda tempermental though they'll never admit it and since we can't afford to pay them the way we all should be paid I think that 30 bucks ain't to much to spend on them!! haha!
Oops back to the topic...well singers in my opinion are a dime a dozen but there are very few that can actually write good songs. Kenny Bobien is an excellent example of a singer songwriter. He came in to do some stuff for us and said ok guys play me what you got...now we only had to very rough tracks but in a heartbeat I was hearing "Reach" "i'm gonna reach..and I won't stop til I get there!" and about 2 hours later I heard "reality". In truth both songs were written the same day and sung the same day complete with backgrounds and all! Now that's how I like to work! Uncomplicated!. Ultimately that's what it's about. That's how you should think. What's the quickest way i'ma get from point a to point b. If you have to pay someone then go ahead..the quicker you finish the quicker you move on to something new.
Well lastly you have just your plain old singer..they can sing their asses off but you kinda have to hold their hand through the whole thing. They can't think for themselves. Not that this is a slight. It's just that it's frustating to be in the middle of a session and your not getting the performance you want and you kinda have to break out records to show em!! I use these for projects in waiting. Meaning i'll edit and finish em when i got the time cuz i have to fix to many bad off key notes and missaid words in the editor!! Great for your budget bad on creativity though cuz you'll sit their staring at each other think of "what can we write to this?" and he/she breaks out.."The DJ's got the music pumpin'! It makin' me wanna have sex on the dancefloor!" ROTFL I swear this happenned to me. I was like ahhhhh i don't think that's what i had in mind for this one....apologies... graemlins/rofl.gif

as a dear friend and partner of mine has said....
and this always rings true...

"You want a Picasso?
then...Ya gots ta pay for a Picasso!!"

just my 10cents
dee!

[Nege]

Usually I write the music,
I'm really not into writing lyrics,but,
I'll come up with the orchestration and sometimes the melody on top of it,then I'll give it to a vocalist and let him/her listen to it for a few days,this usually inspires the vocalist to write something based on the mood of the music.
Fortunately,I have been lucky enough to work with people who have a knack for writing lyrics.

[andyward]

hey dennis...

never did get a chance to say what a great time we had at Soul Heaven... did you hear how impressed people were by you both?

keep in touch..I got more joints for ya !

info@cleancutrecords.com

[Querck]

Originally posted by dennis f:
this is a bit of a tough one. You see I am a bit more of a songwriter/producer as I write the lyrics to just about all of the songs on my records. Basically what it comes down to is what you can honestly say you've got a knack for. If you have the ability to write songs in a short time and you can honestly say they're not cheesy, by comparing them to other songs out there, then by all means do it because the advantages to the publishing side of things is incredible once you've established a catalog.
When I'm doing a track I usually have an idea of how my song should be sung and which vocalist and their style would fit the tune. I think that's one of the most important rules.
On the issue of letting someone write to the song...that's a bit difficult for me sometimes because of the direction and vision that was on my mind at the time somehow sometimes doesn't seem to grab the vocalist the same way and they write something totally different for me. Which at times can be a pleasant surprise but 90% of the time it's a no go. Plus time is money and the more time you spend on a tune the less money you make. Not to mention the break in the creative flow that'll mess you up for a minute.
Now if you have your own song what I do like to do is let the vocalist kind of sing it the way they feel. Meaning the song is usually set in it's melodic way.....but I allow them to do all the riffing and inflections their hearts desire. Note: Do not and I mean do not record they're vox's by verse than stop and then do the chorus's and then stop and do the second verse and etc.....this totally kills their vibe! I rather let them learn and run through all the verses in one pass but I make multiple passes about 5 then comp the best ones...don't forget to do about 3 adlib passes, you'll need em later. Hint: Record the chorus's first..it gives you and them inspiration, you might here that one thing you want to put in it, plus it lets them riff and get moody!LOL Above all make it a pleasant and comfortable situation (a little catering is always nice) as they're real kinda tempermental though they'll never admit it and since we can't afford to pay them the way we all should be paid I think that 30 bucks ain't to much to spend on them!! haha!
Oops back to the topic...well singers in my opinion are a dime a dozen but there are very few that can actually write good songs. Kenny Bobien is an excellent example of a singer songwriter. He came in to do some stuff for us and said ok guys play me what you got...now we only had to very rough tracks but in a heartbeat I was hearing "Reach" "i'm gonna reach..and I won't stop til I get there!" and about 2 hours later I heard "reality". In truth both songs were written the same day and sung the same day complete with backgrounds and all! Now that's how I like to work! Uncomplicated!. Ultimately that's what it's about. That's how you should think. What's the quickest way i'ma get from point a to point b. If you have to pay someone then go ahead..the quicker you finish the quicker you move on to something new.
Well lastly you have just your plain old singer..they can sing their asses off but you kinda have to hold their hand through the whole thing. They can't think for themselves. Not that this is a slight. It's just that it's frustating to be in the middle of a session and your not getting the performance you want and you kinda have to break out records to show em!! I use these for projects in waiting. Meaning i'll edit and finish em when i got the time cuz i have to fix to many bad off key notes and missaid words in the editor!! Great for your budget bad on creativity though cuz you'll sit their staring at each other think of "what can we write to this?" and he/she breaks out.."The DJ's got the music pumpin'! It makin' me wanna have sex on the dancefloor!" ROTFL I swear this happenned to me. I was like ahhhhh i don't think that's what i had in mind for this one....apologies... graemlins/rofl.gif

as a dear friend and partner of mine has said....
and this always rings true...

"You want a Picasso?
then...Ya gots ta pay for a Picasso!!"

just my 10cents
dee! Thank you Dennis, this was very imformative--and I agree with everything you said. smile.gif

[Mark]

I prefer the vocalist (if capable) to write their own lyrics and melodies to my music thats flexibly structured. Reason being that he/she will sing with passion straight from the heart, as opposed to trying to interpret someone else's work.

[Querck]

Originally posted by Mark:
I prefer the vocalist (if capable) to write their own lyrics and melodies to my music thats flexibly structured. Reason being that he/she will sing with passion straight from the heart, as opposed to trying to interpret someone else's work. I think this would work only if the vocalist was a very talented songwriter and you could trust them completely. In my situation, the vocalist is bringing a completely different vibe to the track, and it makes me uneasy because it feels like the direction of my song is now out of my hands. :(

[Mark]

dannyboy ,

Sometimes, the best songs come from the synergy of different mindsets. Hope it all works out for you.

[Mark]

[ August 19, 2003, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: Mark ]

[Al Kent]

Originally posted by dannyboy:
In my situation, the vocalist is bringing a completely different vibe to the track, and it makes me uneasy because it feels like the direction of my song is now out of my hands. :( Be very careful Dannyboy. I've been there, and learned a very valuable lesson in the process. I once left a lot to a vocalist and saw a years work go down the pan. If you're not happy, say so. It's your production - you call the shots.