An Interesting Quote on moral certainty - opinions on it?

[darrow]

I saw this quote in someone's signature and I immediately thought of posting it on DHP. Any thoughts on the below?

Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who doubted current moral values, not of men who tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant. - H.L. Mencken

[ June 09, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: darrow ]

[jsd540]

Originally posted by darrow:
I saw this quote in someone's signature and I immediately thought of posting it on DHP. Any thoughts on the below?

Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who doubted current moral values, not of men who tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant. - H.L. Mencken I disagree, We all know what is right and wrong and these beliefs stand the test of time. Don't kill, steal, or hurt one another. How immorality gets justified is what has changed.

[DOTSmusic]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jsd540:
I disagree

i don't.

great quote
darrow.
graemlins/beerchug.gif

[darrow]

I was drawn to the quote mainly because it reminded me that I have to challenge myself when it comes to issues of right and wrong, proper and improper, good and bad, etc. As open minded as I think I am, I have certainly been put in positions on a regular basis that challenge the image that I have of myself. I'm not totally open minded. I'm not totally culturally sensitive. I don't always look at every single thing with a fresh perspective.

The quote on a basic level reminds me that I need to work on all of these things AND that it's okay to not have somehow arrived at being the all-knowing, all-understanding human being.

jds540...I wonder about your comment. Are those things you mention true absolutes? Is it never ok to kill? Never ok to steal? I'm not really looking for a debate on it because then this could become another one of THOSE threads, but your response did cause the questions to come to mind.

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Put it this way.

Mother Nature and Religion/Morals do not mix.

Period

[alltalk]

good thread darrow...mmm, i question moral certainty based on the grounds that morals can vary from one culture to another. in some cultural contexts it is not always thought that killing is morally wrong, intrinsically maybe, universal, not so sure...

infanticide for instance is quite an accepatble practice in some cultures, the wrongness in killing during a war is obviously arguable, killing one person in order to save another, where a choice has to be made is a tough one...i think depending on which philosophical approach you take it can be permissable on some occaisions.

im sure there are some moral/ethics experts on this board...

[jsd540]

Originally posted by darrow:
jds540...I wonder about your comment. Are those things you mention true absolutes? Is it never ok to kill? Never ok to steal? I'm not really looking for a debate on it because then this could become another one of THOSE threads, but your response did cause the questions to come to mind. There may be a time when you feel you may have to kill, for example, in self defense . I don't believe that morally it will be justified. You may question that action for the rest of your life. Many people who have killed for necessity have carried that guilt for a long time after the fact because of the belief that taking someones life is wrong...

Do some people need killin'? - Yes - Just don't do it - ( my best Chris Rock Impression )

[Bill Blake]

Think about what it says and what it could imply….

Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority

“Is always’ is a claim of certainty. Basically he is saying we are certain that there is not certainty in morals. That is a contradiction. For it one cannot make the claim that in ethics there is no certainty and at the same time claim they are certain of it.

For what is the criteria for certainty? Certainly not the same subjective philosophical argument he is making and yet doing so with objective statements like ‘Always’.

All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who doubted current moral values

Again ‘All’ human progress? I seriously doubt this. And consider how far reaching a statement like ‘doubted current moral values’ can entail. Was not murder a current moral value when Hitler, Stalin, and Mao killed millions of people? Were not these men, who through so much destruction ‘doubting current moral values’?

And just what that was so progressive that came about from that?

If the civilized man IS ALWAYS skeptical, then obviously this man is not because, again, he has contradicted himself by on the one hand claiming that we should be skeptical but at the same time being completely non-skeptical and with ‘certainty’ claiming that moral certainty is a sign of cultural inferiority and with no skepticism, claiming that ALL human progress is the result of such uncertainty.

This is bullshit.

[Moksha]

Yeah, it is largely bullshit...but there is a good point in there as well.

[darrow]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:

If the civilized man IS ALWAYS skeptical, then obviously this man is not because, again, he has contradicted himself by on the one hand claiming that we should be skeptical but at the same time being completely non-skeptical and with ‘certainty’ claiming that moral certainty is a sign of cultural inferiority and with no skepticism, claiming that ALL human progress is the result of such uncertainty.

This is bullshit. hehehe...this is almost a tongue twister. I see your points though. Very good ones.

Still, the quote makes me think about my own actions, not that I need to mimic this guy's beliefs.