When a Jehovah's Witness knocks/rings at your door..........

[Austin/Dallas]

What is the worst thing you have done.

I had been out partying until early saturday AM (about 5:00AM)still in a drunken stuper I walked down to answer the door which had been singing a sick door beel chimes grabing only my jacket which I slug over my shoulder I opened my door. They imediately turned around and left my porch. As I returned to my bed I realized I was totally nude with only a jacket over my shoulder. I still laugh about to this day.

P.S. This is not ment to reck anyones faith.

[lyot]

anyone seen the movie Orgazmo? :D

[D J 1 3 8]

When I was about 11 I told these ladies on my porch that I was an Atheist, thinking that I would scare them away. Boy was I wrong. Their eyes lit up and their faces beamed with huge smiles cuz they thought God had put me in their path to personally save. They almost lost it they were so ecstatic. They pulled out every piece of literature they had and thrust it in to my hands. They went on and on and on and I ended up standing there dealing with them for like a half hour. Big mistake. Big BIG mistake.

[AD]

Slam the door in their faces. Easy as pie. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/smokin.gif

[MYOR]

I just open the door then when I realize who it is I slam it shut..

But my friend did this to two guys that came to her door to preach..

She said ok I will let you preach to me if both of you will have sex with me... icon_rofl.gif

They said no... graemlins/rofl.gif
Mind you my friend is a good looking...

[Mack-Williams]

Yall aint right and we don't come at 5:00 in the morning. About 9:30 though. I have had dogs sicked on me, cussed out, doors slammed, guns pulled. But yall know we the dopest gang in the country. When we pull up, the streets clear.

[lyot]

i actually like discussing with them.. But it's been some years ago I've seen them around here..

[D J 1 3 8]

I heard they are selling their headquarters in Brooklyn and moving elsewhere. Es verdad?

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
I heard they are selling their headquarters in Brooklyn and moving elsewhere. Es verdad? They own have of Brooklyn. It was to the point they stop selling property to them. I haven't heard anything about that I have to ask my mother about that.

[Gojay]

I look out the peep hole first and say: "Honey(my lady) it's for you"


peace,
gojay

[lyot]

do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes..

[MYOR]

Originally posted by lyot:
do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes.. Um no.. If I want to be saved i go look for it.. Besides some of them don't take no for an answer.. Hence my slammin of the doors on their face..

[jsd540]

Invited them in and asked them to wait a moment. Got dressed and told my roomate he had company in the living room as I left.

He was a little pissed at me. They did'nt leave very quickly...

[DISKOQUEEN99]

Make sex noises close to the door.

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
Yall aint right and we don't come at 5:00 in the morning. About 9:30 though. I have had dogs sicked on me, cussed out, doors slammed, guns pulled. But yall know we the dopest gang in the country. When we pull up, the streets clear. HAHAHAHAHAH graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

[Gojay]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
I heard they are selling their headquarters in Brooklyn and moving elsewhere. Es verdad? Si!

Soon luxury lofts should go up.


peace,
gojay

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by lyot:
do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes.. Wasn't there a big court case about this very issue that the Witnesses' won recently?

[i.be.me]

Originally posted by Austin/Dallas:
What is the worst thing you have done...

Proudly claim to be SDA (for that 1 minute) and remind them that we also believe we're the only 'right' ones and if the rest of ya'll don't get it straight, you're lost with the rest of the gang.
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/devil10.gif

[lyot]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes.. Um no.. If I want to be saved i go look for it.. Besides some of them don't take no for an answer.. Hence my slammin of the doors on their face.. </font>[/QUOTE]isn't proselytism considered an integral part of the the freedom of religion? I'm quite sure it is, at least by the practice that followed out of Convention of Geneva (refugee convention)..Worldwide, people are recognised as refugees because they face prosecution for trying to spread their beliefs. I think it's quite fundamental. I've been trying to recognise Baptist believers from Armenia here in Belgium, who have had serious problems for just doing this same thing (trying to convert people, and not even in an offensive, rude or impolite way)..But even within my administration (that deals with refugees) there are discussions about this issue (proselytism)..just some thoughts..

[ September 03, 2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: lyot ]

[jpsf]

i tell them i'm roman catholic and that they are sinners for now being catholic and for not following the pope. then i tell them to get their hippie religion off my porch.

[lyot]

Originally posted by fred:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes.. Wasn't there a big court case about this very issue that the Witnesses' won recently? </font>[/QUOTE]i've got no clue,as I don't follow internal American politics that well. but I suppose this is very well possible.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by fred:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes.. Wasn't there a big court case about this very issue that the Witnesses' won recently? </font>[/QUOTE]Peopl have taken us to court plenty of times but we always win. Freedom of speech and Freedom to practice religion.

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by lyot:
isn't proselytism considered an integral part of the the freedom of religion? I'm quite sure it is, at least by the practice that followed out of Convention of Geneva (refugee convention)..Worldwide, people are recognised as refugees because they face prosecution for trying to spread their beliefs. I think it's quite fundamental. I've been trying to recognise Baptist believers from Armenia here in Belgium, who have had serious problems for just doing this same thing (trying to convert people, and not even in an offensive, rude or impolite way)..But even within my administration (that deals with refugees) there are discussions about this issue (proselytism)..just some thoughts.. Their right to practice their faith doesn't supercede your right to privacy, however. If you ask them to leave and they don't, they're trespassing, regardless of their purpose for being there.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes.. Wasn't there a big court case about this very issue that the Witnesses' won recently? </font>[/QUOTE]Peopl have taken us to court plenty of times but we always win. Freedom of speech and Freedom to practice religion. </font>[/QUOTE]Um have you ever heard of No means NO..

In the begining I would try to be nice.. didn't work...

Now I just don't bother being nice... AR15firing.gif

[JMJ]

Originally posted by DISKOQUEEN99:
Make sex noises close to the door. What's your address??......JMJ ;)

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
do you folks think these Jehova witnesses have the basic right to come to your door to 'proselytise' (sp?)

i think the answer is yes.. Wasn't there a big court case about this very issue that the Witnesses' won recently? </font>[/QUOTE]Peopl have taken us to court plenty of times but we always win. Freedom of speech and Freedom to practice religion. </font>[/QUOTE]Um have you ever heard of No means NO..

In the begining I would try to be nice.. didn't work...

Now I just don't bother being nice... AR15firing.gif </font>[/QUOTE]What they were trying to do just came out the wrong way. We are taught not to harass.

[lyot]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
isn't proselytism considered an integral part of the the freedom of religion? I'm quite sure it is, at least by the practice that followed out of Convention of Geneva (refugee convention)..Worldwide, people are recognised as refugees because they face prosecution for trying to spread their beliefs. I think it's quite fundamental. I've been trying to recognise Baptist believers from Armenia here in Belgium, who have had serious problems for just doing this same thing (trying to convert people, and not even in an offensive, rude or impolite way)..But even within my administration (that deals with refugees) there are discussions about this issue (proselytism)..just some thoughts.. Their right to practice their faith doesn't supercede your right to privacy, however. If you ask them to leave and they don't, they're trespassing, regardless of their purpose for being there. </font>[/QUOTE]yeah, of course.. i agree with that.. smile.gif

[AD]

Originally posted by jpsf:
i tell them i'm roman catholic and that they are sinners for now being catholic and for not following the pope. then i tell them to get their hippie religion off my porch. hahahahaha!! My mom used to do that to my neighbor who was always trying to convert us.

[DISKOQUEEN99]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DISKOQUEEN99:
Make sex noises close to the door. What's your address??......JMJ ;) </font>[/QUOTE]99 InYourPants Street.

(Stop being your notorious self, J.)

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

I used to ask them questions and cause debate. I also would use scriptures that contradict their practice and that used to send them away stumped. Of course now I do know someone that I sit and talk with. I still disagree with alot of what they preach & vice versa. However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif

[Friday]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell?

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Well, from what we've learned and other leaders/pastors have taught in the bible anyone that believes & have faith in God-Jesus obey the commandments and the will of God for their lives will have everlasting life. The Jehovah's witnesses teach that also but you have to do so under the proclamation of the title "Jehovah" not just God, Lord, Jesus etc.

[Bold Soul]

If something is valuable, it must be built or sought. It isn't just going to come to your door giftwrapped. Notice how no one is bringing an education to your door on your day off.

Besides, the J-Dubs have way too much racism and sexism in their tenants to be taken seriously by people of color. It is seriously fascist.

[AD]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:

Besides, the J-Dubs have way too much racism and sexism in their tenants to be taken seriously by people of color. It is seriously fascist. Very true!

[Friday]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Well, from what we've learned and other leaders/pastors have taught in the bible anyone that believes & have faith in God-Jesus obey the commandments and the will of God for their lives will have everlasting life. The Jehovah's witnesses teach that also but you have to do so under the proclamation of the title "Jehovah" not just God, Lord, Jesus etc. </font>[/QUOTE]But that's just semantics...What I was talking about is when you said "we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain" Does not all religions teach that?

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Well, from what we've learned and other leaders/pastors have taught in the bible anyone that believes & have faith in God-Jesus obey the commandments and the will of God for their lives will have everlasting life. The Jehovah's witnesses teach that also but you have to do so under the proclamation of the title "Jehovah" not just God, Lord, Jesus etc. </font>[/QUOTE]But that's just semantics...What I was talking about is when you said "we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain" Does not all religions teach that? </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry for not answering clearly. Yes, religions teach that, but as I said earlier we are learning(We are non-denominational) that it is more so whomever don't follow the teachings and laws of God will not go to heaven. So if you are not a Christian (believer in God rather the denomination) then you cannot have everlasting life. Now that is what we have learned, my pastor said Catholics, Jehovah's witnesses, baptist etc. can be holy and go to heaven as long they are living according to God's word. She don't teach against other religions because that would be judgemental.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Well, from what we've learned and other leaders/pastors have taught in the bible anyone that believes & have faith in God-Jesus obey the commandments and the will of God for their lives will have everlasting life. The Jehovah's witnesses teach that also but you have to do so under the proclamation of the title "Jehovah" not just God, Lord, Jesus etc. </font>[/QUOTE]When he first century Christian started there was one organization. They set the foudation on how the Congregation of God was supposed to be. Today you have to many different sects claiming to be one thing Christians. I believe that it is one way to serve God and that would fall under the way the First Century Christians was doing it. What I am getting at is God left a way he wanted to be worship. Many have there own ways but really there is only one.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Well, from what we've learned and other leaders/pastors have taught in the bible anyone that believes & have faith in God-Jesus obey the commandments and the will of God for their lives will have everlasting life. The Jehovah's witnesses teach that also but you have to do so under the proclamation of the title "Jehovah" not just God, Lord, Jesus etc. </font>[/QUOTE]But that's just semantics...What I was talking about is when you said "we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain" Does not all religions teach that? </font>[/QUOTE]I believe they all do...

Question.. Jehovah's witness are they the ones that you can't drink, dance, females can't wear skirts or make up etc???

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Well, from what we've learned and other leaders/pastors have taught in the bible anyone that believes & have faith in God-Jesus obey the commandments and the will of God for their lives will have everlasting life. The Jehovah's witnesses teach that also but you have to do so under the proclamation of the title "Jehovah" not just God, Lord, Jesus etc. </font>[/QUOTE]But that's just semantics...What I was talking about is when you said "we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain" Does not all religions teach that? </font>[/QUOTE]I believe they all do...

Question.. Jehovah's witness are they the ones that you can't drink, dance, females can't wear skirts or make up etc??? </font>[/QUOTE]No that is not us. I have been dancing all my life even when I was practicing. They can drink, but drunkeness is not premisable. Females can wear make up and wear what they like, but they suggest modesty.

[Bold Soul]

Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D.

[Friday]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gf:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
However we learn alot from each other - we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain graemlins/stupid.gif Don't ALL religions preach that? My god this, my god that, we are saved and you are not. Follow this and not that and you will go to heaven and not to hell? </font>[/QUOTE]Well, from what we've learned and other leaders/pastors have taught in the bible anyone that believes & have faith in God-Jesus obey the commandments and the will of God for their lives will have everlasting life. The Jehovah's witnesses teach that also but you have to do so under the proclamation of the title "Jehovah" not just God, Lord, Jesus etc. </font>[/QUOTE]But that's just semantics...What I was talking about is when you said "we learned that Jehovah's witnesses still believe that they are the chosen while the rest of us that worship God are doing it in vain" Does not all religions teach that? </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry for not answering clearly. Yes, religions teach that, but as I said earlier we are learning(We are non-denominational) that it is more so whomever don't follow the teachings and laws of God will not go to heaven. So if you are not a Christian (believer in God rather the denomination) then you cannot have everlasting life. Now that is what we have learned, my pastor said Catholics, Jehovah's witnesses, baptist etc. can be holy and go to heaven as long they are living according to God's word. She don't teach against other religions because that would be judgemental. </font>[/QUOTE]But is it not judgemental to pronounce that those who do not follow a Christian way will not have everlasting life?
Here's the thing, if I am not a Christian or have chosen not to live according to God's word, but I am still a good person, will I not go to heaven and also share in this everlasting life?

[ September 03, 2003, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: gf ]

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. as crazy as that is, pointing out that religions make absurd claims is redundant.

I recently saw seomeone describe religion as "the ultimate urban myth".

[AD]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Good post, Danny. ;)

[Bold Soul]

There isn't a person of color alive who should practice that religion. The J-Dubs were founded during the period of conquest American whites enjoyed in the 1800's and all of their rhetorical teachings support a white supremacist ethos. Granted, it was more sympathetic to people of color, but only in a sense that the perceived inferiority of blacks shouldn't be held against them.

Here's a good link - http://www.freeminds.org/african/discrimination.htm Some of the quotations are startling, to say the least.

You won't find a religion founded prior to the 70's that isn't going to have racism, sexism and advocacy for the limitation of the human rights of "non-believers" buried somewhere in its tenants.

[ September 03, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. as crazy as that is, pointing out that religions make absurd claims is redundant.

I recently saw seomeone describe religion as "the ultimate urban myth". </font>[/QUOTE]You consider evidence that a major American religion with a membership that is 52% black and "hispanic" (and growing) that possesses a core doctrine that perceives its majority as inferior to whites redundant?

[ September 03, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Now that is instances of 1904, 1929, 1952. That's old. Go see how many Blacks hold major roles in the organization now. If you don't believe go the Brooklyn and ask for a tour. In order for them to represent God's name they had to get there act together in which they did. How many so called corporations that we work for has gotten there stuff together.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Now that is instances of 1904, 1929, 1952. That's old. Go see how many Blacks hold major roles in the organization now. If you don't believe go the Brooklyn and ask for a tour. In order for them to represent God's name they had to get there act together in which they did. How many so called corporations that we work for has gotten there stuff together. </font>[/QUOTE]As of 1995, not one non-white person is on their governing body which consists totally of "old white men" most in their 80's or older. So much for having its "act together".

Also, there are serious infractions of exclusion as recent as 1998. Read up.

[ September 03, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[mhd]

have they repudiated those statements?

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
have they repudiated those statements? I think the question is, have they redeveloped their structure to bring their majority members into leadership and equity? Admitting past wrongdoing and repudiating statements is one thing, but they're still on some good ol' boy shit. That they can trot out a negro in a suit from time to time isn't saying much.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Now that is instances of 1904, 1929, 1952. That's old. Go see how many Blacks hold major roles in the organization now. If you don't believe go the Brooklyn and ask for a tour. In order for them to represent God's name they had to get there act together in which they did. How many so called corporations that we work for has gotten there stuff together. </font>[/QUOTE]As of 1995, not one non-white person is on their governing body which consists totally of "old white men" most in their 80's or older. So much for having its "act together".

Also, there are serious infractions of exclusion as recent as 1998. Read up. </font>[/QUOTE]That is for reasons that you may find to hard to believe, but I understand. God doesn't see race.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Now that is instances of 1904, 1929, 1952. That's old. Go see how many Blacks hold major roles in the organization now. If you don't believe go the Brooklyn and ask for a tour. In order for them to represent God's name they had to get there act together in which they did. How many so called corporations that we work for has gotten there stuff together. </font>[/QUOTE]Religion is a way to control the masses..

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Now that is instances of 1904, 1929, 1952. That's old. Go see how many Blacks hold major roles in the organization now. If you don't believe go the Brooklyn and ask for a tour. In order for them to represent God's name they had to get there act together in which they did. How many so called corporations that we work for has gotten there stuff together. </font>[/QUOTE]As of 1995, not one non-white person is on their governing body which consists totally of "old white men" most in their 80's or older. So much for having its "act together".

Also, there are serious infractions of exclusion as recent as 1998. Read up. </font>[/QUOTE]That is for reasons that you may find to hard to believe, but I understand. God doesn't see race. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - so since God doesn't see race, she doesn't see racial discrimination? It doesn't know when white people are taking advantage of ricans and razas in the ghetto?

[ September 03, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
have they repudiated those statements? I think the question is, have they redeveloped their structure to bring their majority members into leadership and equity? Admitting past wrongdoing and repudiating statements is one thing, but they're still on some good ol' boy shit. That they can trot out a negro in a suit from time to time isn't saying much. </font>[/QUOTE]agreed, i'm just wondering if they had the decency to lie to us.

[JMNYC]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
I used to ask them questions and cause debate. I also would use scriptures that contradict their practice and that used to send them away stumped. That was always my approach. Here's something I found online to that extent:

Ask the Jehovah's Witness how many true Gods there are according to St. John 17:3, allow him to read his New World Translation. Based on his verse the Jehovah's Witness will say that Jehovah the Father is the One true God. After that next point out that according to St. John 1:1 in the New World Translation Jesus is a "god". Ask the Jehovah's if he agrees that Jesus is a "god" he will answer yes. Now here's your punch line, you want to ask the question whether Jesus is a true God or a false God. By asking this simple question will cause a dilemma for the Jehovah's Witness.

If he says Jesus is a false god, he is contradicting the New World Translation of Scripture, since St. John 1:1 in this version it says Jesus is a god. On the other hand if he says Jesus is a true God, he is contradicting the Watchtower understanding of Scripture St. John 17:3 it says there is only one true God.

The Watchtower Scriptures also predicted:

the Second Coming of Christ in 1874.

the coming of select Old Testament saints to earth in 1925. (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob)

the end of human history in 1975.

Now I'm not trying to be rude, just saying we are each entitled to our own beliefs and the freedom of not being subjected to others' prosthletizing when we aren't interested in hearing it.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Now that is instances of 1904, 1929, 1952. That's old. Go see how many Blacks hold major roles in the organization now. If you don't believe go the Brooklyn and ask for a tour. In order for them to represent God's name they had to get there act together in which they did. How many so called corporations that we work for has gotten there stuff together. </font>[/QUOTE]As of 1995, not one non-white person is on their governing body which consists totally of "old white men" most in their 80's or older. So much for having its "act together".

Also, there are serious infractions of exclusion as recent as 1998. Read up. </font>[/QUOTE]That is for reasons that you may find to hard to believe, but I understand. God doesn't see race. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - so since God doesn't see race, he doesn't see racial discrimination? </font>[/QUOTE]You putting the race in it. I have an understading of the organiaztion for more than from something that you have read. If this was truely the case than many Blacks who hold positons at the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society wouldn't be there. Also the Govern Body role has droped alot due to there old age.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
have they repudiated those statements? I think the question is, have they redeveloped their structure to bring their majority members into leadership and equity? Admitting past wrongdoing and repudiating statements is one thing, but they're still on some good ol' boy shit. That they can trot out a negro in a suit from time to time isn't saying much. </font>[/QUOTE]agreed, i'm just wondering if they had the decency to lie to us. </font>[/QUOTE]If you knew anything at noboby getting paid up there. You default your life to service when you go to Bethel. Which we call it. You get a monthly wage which is small. They give you living arrangements and clothing. No equity involved. Brothers do hold high postions. Alot are writers.

[D J 1 3 8]

I think we all know that Christianity was used against black folks from day one, as a means of control, as a means of "civilizing" them, etc. Why on earth Africans embraced Christianity is the subject for another thread.

I'm glad you brought up these points about the JWs, Bold, as I would guess most people know nothing about this.

My "redundancy" remark was was trying to point out that Chrisitianity, like all religions IMO, make wild outlandish claims that fly in the face of reason.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Some interesting tidbits:

...our colored brothers have a great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase." (The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1952: 95).



...the curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race. Certain it is that when Noah said, "Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," he pictured the future of the Colored race. They have been and are a race of servants, but now in the dawn of the twentieth century, we are all coming to see this matter of service in its true light and to find that the only real joy in life is in serving others; not bossing them. There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."
(The Golden Age, July 24, 1929: 702)

How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time... Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines."
(Zion's Watch Tower, February 15, 1904: 52-53)

Jehovah's Witnesses today are not taught about this history of the Watchtower organization. The few Jehovah's Witnesses who are aware of the above often excuse their organization's historical position with the words "the light was dim in our early history, but the governing body is now more enlightened". The Watchtower, though, has not fully shed their old mentality. Bethel headquarter's worker, Watters, while in charge of the printing of the Watchtower's Bible encyclopedia called Aid to Bible Understanding was told that it was not going to be translated into Spanish partly due to the "lack of interest" of Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses in the "deeper things of God's Word"! The conclusion of the Watchtower administration was that this scholarly work would be wasted among the Hispanics. (Watters, 1988:2) - Quoted in Jehovah's Witnesses, Blacks and Discrimination by Jerry Bergman, Ph. D. Now that is instances of 1904, 1929, 1952. That's old. Go see how many Blacks hold major roles in the organization now. If you don't believe go the Brooklyn and ask for a tour. In order for them to represent God's name they had to get there act together in which they did. How many so called corporations that we work for has gotten there stuff together. </font>[/QUOTE]As of 1995, not one non-white person is on their governing body which consists totally of "old white men" most in their 80's or older. So much for having its "act together".

Also, there are serious infractions of exclusion as recent as 1998. Read up. </font>[/QUOTE]That is for reasons that you may find to hard to believe, but I understand. God doesn't see race. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - so since God doesn't see race, he doesn't see racial discrimination? </font>[/QUOTE]You putting the race in it. I have an understading of the organiaztion for more than from something that you have read. If this was truely the case than many Blacks who hold positons at the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society wouldn't be there. Also the Govern Body role has droped alot due to there old age. </font>[/QUOTE]Mack - the JWs are putting race in it by recruiting in the ghettos and leading minorities to a religion that has racism is in its structure. 52% of those who tithe are not its chosen race, which is white.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
have they repudiated those statements? I think the question is, have they redeveloped their structure to bring their majority members into leadership and equity? Admitting past wrongdoing and repudiating statements is one thing, but they're still on some good ol' boy shit. That they can trot out a negro in a suit from time to time isn't saying much. </font>[/QUOTE]agreed, i'm just wondering if they had the decency to lie to us. </font>[/QUOTE]If you knew anything at noboby getting paid up there. You default your life to service when you go to Bethel. Which we call it. You get a monthly wage which is small. They give you living arrangements and clothing. No equity involved. Brothers do hold high postions. Alot are writers. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - so 52% of the grunts, who are black and hispanic, work to promote the religion for free? Wonderful.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
I think we all know that Christianity was used against black folks from day one, as a means of control, as a means of "civilizing" them, etc. Why on earth Africans embraced Christianity is the subject for another thread.

I'm glad you brought up these points about the JWs, Bold, as I would guess most people know nothing about this.

My "redundancy" remark was was trying to point out that Chrisitianity, like all religions IMO, make wild outlandish claims that fly in the face of reason. Well, JWs increased its black American membership during the years of the civil rights struggle by incorporating integrated images in their publications and making statements regarding the oneness of all races in the eyes of their god, which wasn't totally factual of their complete position.

They also use their overwhelmingly black membership stats to promote the religion in Africa, another hard hit poverty-stricken area.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
have they repudiated those statements? I think the question is, have they redeveloped their structure to bring their majority members into leadership and equity? Admitting past wrongdoing and repudiating statements is one thing, but they're still on some good ol' boy shit. That they can trot out a negro in a suit from time to time isn't saying much. </font>[/QUOTE]agreed, i'm just wondering if they had the decency to lie to us. </font>[/QUOTE]If you knew anything at noboby getting paid up there. You default your life to service when you go to Bethel. Which we call it. You get a monthly wage which is small. They give you living arrangements and clothing. No equity involved. Brothers do hold high postions. Alot are writers. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - so 52% of the grunts, who are black and hispanic, work to promote the religion for free? Wonderful. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah for free because they are doing a serive to God. Just like the traveling missionaries we have. I tell you what next time you in Brooklyn go take a tour. So you can see for yourself. So you can see every race there working together. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Whites. You might have some racial tensions but if you are out of pocket you get sent home quick.

[Discogoddess]

Interesting topic. My in-laws are JWs, and I always find it perturbing that the taped, piped in "Kingdom Songs" (hymns) that are sung at every service just HAVE to be the European ones. As if expressing love for God can only be done correctly in Eurocentric, Western packaging.

I love and respect my in-laws, but it can be challenging to deal with some of the tenets of their faith, esp. the no-women-in-leadership-positions thing. And, don't get me started about the brother who gave the talk (sermon) at my father-in-law's recent memorial service....oooooweeeee!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
have they repudiated those statements? I think the question is, have they redeveloped their structure to bring their majority members into leadership and equity? Admitting past wrongdoing and repudiating statements is one thing, but they're still on some good ol' boy shit. That they can trot out a negro in a suit from time to time isn't saying much. </font>[/QUOTE]agreed, i'm just wondering if they had the decency to lie to us. </font>[/QUOTE]If you knew anything at noboby getting paid up there. You default your life to service when you go to Bethel. Which we call it. You get a monthly wage which is small. They give you living arrangements and clothing. No equity involved. Brothers do hold high postions. Alot are writers. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah - so 52% of the grunts, who are black and hispanic, work to promote the religion for free? Wonderful. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah for free because they are doing a serive to God. Just like the traveling missionaries we have. I tell you what next time you in Brooklyn go take a tour. So you can see for yourself. So you can see every race there working together. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Whites. You might have some racial tensions but if you are out of pocket you get sent home quick. </font>[/QUOTE]Of course you'd be sent home. No one wants to be exposed to the actuals regarding their dogma of choice.

[mhd]

they definitely got the sisters on the stroll

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
they definitely got the sisters on the stroll Streetwalking for Jehovah - its almost always a pack of women and children walking through the ghetto on Saturdays. Why is that?

[AD]

Great dialogue! Continue.... http://deephousepage.com/smilies/smokin.gif

[Discogoddess]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
I think we all know that Christianity was used against black folks from day one, as a means of control, as a means of "civilizing" them, etc. Why on earth Africans embraced Christianity is the subject for another thread....I wish we all also knew that the first Christians were not white. I wish that we all knew that most of the figures in the religion (and the one preceding it, Judiasm) mentioned in the religion's holy book--the Bible--were darkskinned people (lots and lots of them Africans). Contrary to what a lot of us (including yalls' grandmamas with the blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus in the Garden of Gesthemane painting) have been told, white folk have never "owned" the religion, and any perception that they have or do needs to be reexamined using the historical facts of the people and places important to the religion.

I agree that Christianity has been and is used against dark-skinned and poor people as a means of oppression. That doesn't mean that the central figure of the belief system (Jesus), or the belief system itself, are inherently racist. Just like Islam, IMHO, is not ihherently oppressive towards women.

[DISKOQUEEN99]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
they definitely got the sisters on the stroll Streetwalking for Jehovah - its almost always a pack of women and children walking through the ghetto on Saturdays. Why is that? </font>[/QUOTE]I pass this man in the same spot every day. It seems as though he spends the night in that spot. Faithfully, through all kinds of weather. People parading through the hood on holidays. Dressed nicely. Kids. I think to myself, why aren't these people at somebody's job and why aren't these kids in school? And how much is the AWAKE book these days? I remember it being 20cents.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
I think we all know that Christianity was used against black folks from day one, as a means of control, as a means of "civilizing" them, etc. Why on earth Africans embraced Christianity is the subject for another thread....I wish we all also knew that the first Christians were not white. I wish that we all knew that most of the figures in the religion (and the one preceding it, Judiasm) mentioned in the religion's holy book--the Bible--were darkskinned people (lots and lots of them Africans). Contrary to what a lot of us (including yalls' grandmamas with the blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus in the Garden of Gesthemane painting) have been told, white folk have never "owned" the religion, and any perception that they have or do needs to be reexamined using the historical facts of the people and places important to the religion.

I agree that Christianity has been and is used against dark-skinned and poor people as a means of oppression. That doesn't mean that the central figure of the belief system (Jesus), or the belief system itself, are inherently racist. Just like Islam, IMHO, is not ihherently oppressive towards women. </font>[/QUOTE]I slightly disagree - the philosophies of Jesus aren't owned by anyone. The religion of christianity has been owned and expanded since the Romans provided its structure in order to subdue its influence among its conquered.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
they definitely got the sisters on the stroll Streetwalking for Jehovah - its almost always a pack of women and children walking through the ghetto on Saturdays. Why is that? </font>[/QUOTE]pimp juice, but i haven't been to the hood lately, what do i know

[Discogoddess]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
I slightly disagree - the philosophies of Jesus aren't owned by anyone. The religion of christianity has been owned and expanded since the Romans provided its structure in order to subdue its influence among its conquered. Great point.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
they definitely got the sisters on the stroll Streetwalking for Jehovah - its almost always a pack of women and children walking through the ghetto on Saturdays. Why is that? </font>[/QUOTE]pimp juice, but i haven't been to the hood lately, what do i know </font>[/QUOTE];)

[D J 1 3 8]

Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
I think we all know that Christianity was used against black folks from day one, as a means of control, as a means of "civilizing" them, etc. Why on earth Africans embraced Christianity is the subject for another thread....I wish we all also knew that the first Christians were not white. I wish that we all knew that most of the figures in the religion (and the one preceding it, Judiasm) mentioned in the religion's holy book--the Bible--were darkskinned people (lots and lots of them Africans). Contrary to what a lot of us (including yalls' grandmamas with the blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus in the Garden of Gesthemane painting) have been told, white folk have never "owned" the religion, and any perception that they have or do needs to be reexamined using the historical facts of the people and places important to the religion.

I agree that Christianity has been and is used against dark-skinned and poor people as a means of oppression. That doesn't mean that the central figure of the belief system (Jesus), or the belief system itself, are inherently racist. Just like Islam, IMHO, is not ihherently oppressive towards women. </font>[/QUOTE]I never meant to imply that Christianity was inherently racist. It is very true that the founders of Christianity ("the Way") were not white, but Bold's point about the Roman empire is true. Christianity would be nowhere without the Romans embracing it and spreading it. And it is spread throughout the world as a result of European imperialism.

The message of Jesus surely has universal appeal, but it was originally taught to African slaves as a means of control. Black folks had religion long before Christianity and Judiasm.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DJ 138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Discogoddess:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DJ 138:
I think we all know that Christianity was used against black folks from day one, as a means of control, as a means of "civilizing" them, etc. Why on earth Africans embraced Christianity is the subject for another thread....I wish we all also knew that the first Christians were not white. I wish that we all knew that most of the figures in the religion (and the one preceding it, Judiasm) mentioned in the religion's holy book--the Bible--were darkskinned people (lots and lots of them Africans). Contrary to what a lot of us (including yalls' grandmamas with the blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus in the Garden of Gesthemane painting) have been told, white folk have never "owned" the religion, and any perception that they have or do needs to be reexamined using the historical facts of the people and places important to the religion.

I agree that Christianity has been and is used against dark-skinned and poor people as a means of oppression. That doesn't mean that the central figure of the belief system (Jesus), or the belief system itself, are inherently racist. Just like Islam, IMHO, is not ihherently oppressive towards women. </font>[/QUOTE]I never meant to imply that Christianity was inherently racist. It is very true that the founders of Christianity ("the Way") were not white, but Bold's point about the Roman empire is true. Christianity would be nowhere without the Romans embracing it and spreading it. And it is spread throughout the world as a result of European imperialism.

The message of Jesus surely has universal appeal, but it was originally taught to African slaves as a means of control. Black folks had religion long before Christianity and Judiasm. </font>[/QUOTE]No dispute here.

[Mack-Williams]

I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free.

[MC]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. No Shit DUDE!! I'll have to use that. graemlins/rofl.gif

[TAC]

Taking it back to the top, when the Johavh witnesses ever came to my door, I would flash down quick behind the couch.

Dem people would have us all terrorized hiding behind the couch till they leave…

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/hidesbehindsofa.gif

Did they leave yet…

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
they definitely got the sisters on the stroll Streetwalking for Jehovah - its almost always a pack of women and children walking through the ghetto on Saturdays. Why is that? </font>[/QUOTE]pimp juice, but i haven't been to the hood lately, what do i know </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus sent his Disicples out by two's door to door and told them to preach this good news of kingdom throughout the inhabitant Earth. Everyone preachs man and women. U can't consider yourself a witness unless you do that. Now as far as pimping goes unlike many other religions no one is gainfully employeed on the sake of others hard earned money. You make an honest living. No one pressures you to donate money. You donate when you feel like it.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. c'mon man the book of revelations is copied from the egyptian book of the dead or the book of the coming forth by day & by night & is the oldest book in the bible.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. c'mon man the book of revelations is copied from the egyptian book of the dead or the book of the coming forth by day & by night & is the oldest book in the bible. [/QUOTE

Whatever man. Revelations was a letter sent out by John to the 7 congregations that existed in the first century. Get the book and read it. Then compare the two and see if you can breakdown the Egyptian book the same way. I doubt it.

[ September 04, 2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Mack-Williams ]

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. c'mon man the book of revelations is copied from the egyptian book of the dead or the book of the coming forth by day & by night & is the oldest book in the bible. [/QUOTE

Whatever man. Revelations was a letter sent out by John to the 7 congregations that existed in the first century. </font>A rose by any other name is still a rose.. (Shakespere)

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. c'mon man the book of revelations is copied from the egyptian book of the dead or the book of the coming forth by day & by night & is the oldest book in the bible. [/QUOTE

Whatever man. Revelations was a letter sent out by John to the 7 congregations that existed in the first century. </font>A rose by any other name is still a rose.. (Shakespere) </font>[/QUOTE]You can easily believe what someone else is telling you, but a wise persons will seek the truth for themselves.

[MYOR]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MYOR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. c'mon man the book of revelations is copied from the egyptian book of the dead or the book of the coming forth by day & by night & is the oldest book in the bible. [/QUOTE

Whatever man. Revelations was a letter sent out by John to the 7 congregations that existed in the first century. </font>A rose by any other name is still a rose.. (Shakespere) </font>[/QUOTE]You can easily believe what someone else is telling you, but a wise persons will seek the truth for themselves. </font>[/QUOTE]To me religions are all the same... just with a different name....You pray to the same god, read the same stories.. Just need to be different and claim him your own..

[TAD]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. c'mon man the book of revelations is copied from the egyptian book of the dead or the book of the coming forth by day & by night & is the oldest book in the bible. [/QUOTE

Whatever man. Revelations was a letter sent out by John to the 7 congregations that existed in the first century. Get the book and read it. Then compare the two and see if you can breakdown the Egyptian book the same way. I doubt it. </font>what makes you think i haven't done so already? listen. i was raised in the church. my father happens to be an orthodox archemandrite. i am very well versed in biblical affairs. i own 4 versions of the holy bible. please don't try & school me on this. if you want to discuss theology, you need more than a bible. have you read the egyptian book of the dead, the papyrus of ani, the pyramid texts, the coffin texts? these are the original bibles, where the jews interwove their stories with the egyptian faith. that shit is 5000 years old man. there was heaven & hell, virgin births galore 1500 years before mary. how are you going to deny the existence of these works. they are there in their original format, not some convoluted interpretation done over umpteen times.

[Mack-Williams]

Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cosmic_Twin:

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I want to suggest a reading for some of you. Next time some JW's come to your door ask for a book called Revelations. It breaks down many things about the Roman Empire and it's part it played in Christianity. I guarantee you will be enligten about alot and it is free. c'mon man the book of revelations is copied from the egyptian book of the dead or the book of the coming forth by day & by night & is the oldest book in the bible. [/QUOTE

Whatever man. Revelations was a letter sent out by John to the 7 congregations that existed in the first century. Get the book and read it. Then compare the two and see if you can breakdown the Egyptian book the same way. I doubt it. </font>what makes you think i haven't done so already? listen. i was raised in the church. my father happens to be an orthodox archemandrite. i am very well versed in biblical affairs. i own 4 versions of the holy bible. please don't try & school me on this. if you want to discuss theology, you need more than a bible. have you read the egyptian book of the dead, the papyrus of ani, the pyramid texts, the coffin texts? these are the original bibles, where the jews interwove their stories with the egyptian faith. that shit is 5000 years old man. there was heaven & hell, virgin births galore 1500 years before mary. how are you going to deny the existence of these works. they are there in their original format, not some convoluted interpretation done over umpteen times. </font>[/QUOTE]I just made a simple reading suggestions. If you read all of those then you should be able to read this book with a opened mind. That's all I am saying. Also there is another about the book of Daniel.

[TAD]

Originally posted by Mack-Williams:
I just made a simple reading suggestions. If you read all of those then you should be able to read this book with a opened mind. That's all I am saying. Also there is another about the book of Daniel. precicely, which is something one cannot do if they have not read them to be able to compare them to each other. once this is done, the truth becomes self evident.

"a comparison of all the religions of the world, in which none can claim a priveleged position, will no doubt seem to many dangerous & reprehensible, because ignoring that peculiar reverence which everybody, down to the mere fetish worshiper, feels for his/her own religion, and for his/her own god. Let me say, then, at once, that i myself have shared these misgivings, but that i have tried to overcome them, because i would not and could not allow myself to surrender either what i hold to be the truth, or what i hold still dearer than truth, the right of testing truth. nor do i regret it. i do not say that the science of religion is all gain. no, it entails losses, and losses of many things which we hold dear. but this i will say, that, as far as my humble judgement goes, it does not entail the loss of anything that is essential to true religion, and that, if we strike the balance honestly, the gain is immeasurably greater than the loss.

all truth is safe, and nothing else is safe; and he who keeps back the truth, or withholds it from men, from motives of expediency, is either a coward or a criminal, or both"
(prof. max muller-the science of religion-page11)

[Austin/Dallas]

When I'm in Chicago in the winter time and I see those sisters and brothers standing on the frozen "L" Platform with Watchtowers in hand everyday for hours. Seems they would get in just for the extreme hazing they go through..

[imported_Gman]

Just like the Muslims I have seen the good that JW's can do with people in a neighborhood. When they come to my door these days I politely say I am not interested and to have a nice day. That works.

-G

[beaniboy67]

I firstly say i alredy have my own religion.If they then ask me if i would ever change i then ask if they are intrested in buying double glazed windows as that what i do for a job(lies really)This usually send them on their way. biggrinangel.gif