This is not meant to be controversial, but meant to give a moment of pause..

[TAC]

But the traditional music that we consider house is just simply F*CKING boring.

It lacks texture!!!

Boom...boom... well, you know....

Listen, don't get me wrong, I love disco and what it became. From the beginning, I was always collecting the stuff. In fact, I was never Hip/Hop. And if so, only to the point of keeping my crowd's attention so that I could drop the disco/club music, which eventually became house.

But the bottom line is, the sooner we come to grips with the fact that House simply became boring, then the sooner there will be progression in this music. FWIW, there is some killing dance music that doesn't even sound like house, but it sure would be House if given an outlet!

Peace
TAC

[ June 28, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

[Ron la Rock]

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

like said a few of us have been sayin this shit 4 the longest!

[Ron la Rock]

it has to be allowed 2 shed its own skin and reinvent itself period

and there is plenty dope shit out there 4 all taste buds but it must be given a chance

sorry 2 piggy back TAC

[ June 28, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Ron paizley ]

[TAC]

Originally posted by Ron paizley:
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

like said a few of us have been sayin this shit 4 the longest! Bro, I've been with you for the longest too. But just not saying it out loud.

Peace
TAC

[TAC]

Originally posted by Ron paizley:
it has to be allowed 2 shed its own skin and reinvent itself period

and there is plenty dope shit out there 4 all taste buds but it must be giveb a chance

sorry 2 piggy back TAC That's okay. If its just you and I talking then so be it.

The truth of the matter is, it is the older folks who are stucka nd refusing to adapt and change. Meanwhile, the younger ones are making a whole different form of dance music.

[lyot]

hey TAC ,

in my case it has come so far that I hardly find ANYTHING interesting that gets released nowadays..It makes me really feel bad in a sense, but I do not know what needs to be done about it.. I'm almost 90% of the time listening to disco nowadays...
greetings

[imported_Gman]

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/red_eyes.gif

[lyot]

Originally posted by Gman:
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/red_eyes.gif have you been smoking G-Man ? (=> those red eyes you got there)..

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by lyot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/red_eyes.gif have you been smoking G-Man ? (=&gt; those red eyes you got there).. </font>[/QUOTE]No just adding to the thread. Was trying to listen to a couple of mixes on the internet but could not get thru them. :D

[Germain]

They use to laugh at me but I saw the future!!!!!

[JMNYC]

The labeling of so many sub-genres is what's screwed everything up. There's a lot of great, danceable music out there. You just have to look a little deeper than before. So many DJs get caught up in the labeling game: "I play xYz" - then they go to record stores and labels and wonder why x, Y, and z is all they ever get.

If we can get beyond the labeling and pay attention to the dance floor instead, we will be alright. There are numerous posts each week about NON HOUSE producers and NON HOUSE tracks - the fact that we even have to call them NON HOUSE goes to my point.

Good music is good music, the cream can and usually will rise to the top, and to hell with the traditionalists, labellers or the pidgeon-holers. Just play great music and work the crowd.

[Grey Marl]

I think this from time to time particularly when i hear more interesting sounds in r'n'b /pop or hip hop than in house

or i hear a record like the Blaze Jocelyn Brown/L holloway thing that's out on King Street. it seems to sum up how tired this music can be

on the other hand, i don't subscribe to the "reinvention" type philosophy which is the kind of BS angle the music press particularly in the UK take, where even a half credible mag such as Straight No Chaser always try and push some guy as the saviour of dance type of thing. The truth is a lot of these guys AMP Fiddler/Moody Man and the rest are pretty hit and miss as well. They sell some real crap through the clearisil collector type mentality of some of the buyers out there

personally some of the records i've enjoyed most over the last few years have been the remixes that Darryl James and others have done of quite mainstream r'n'b records. I guess these would be considered pretty ****ing boring. I mean musically they don't do a lot but they do enough and the songs have character, a bit of grit, something to latch on to, a tune that will stay in your head the next day or whatever. after twenty years or so of buying this music, that still gets me going

[And]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
The labeling of so many sub-genres is what's screwed everything up. There's a lot of great, danceable music out there. You just have to look a little deeper than before. So many DJs get caught up in the labeling game: "I play xYz" - then they go to record stores and labels and wonder why x, Y, and z is all they ever get.

If we can get beyond the labeling and pay attention to the dance floor instead, we will be alright. There are numerous posts each week about NON HOUSE producers and NON HOUSE tracks - the fact that we even have to call them NON HOUSE goes to my point.

Good music is good music, the cream can and usually will rise to the top, and to hell with the traditionalists, labellers or the pidgeon-holers. Just play great music and work the crowd. :D

[liL Ray]

Maybe when the producers stop making music that's geared to the "straight" male, maybe it will be interesting again.....djs need to stop playing music geared to them also....they are some of the most boring people at a party.....something to think about and debate.

Don't believe me, go try and get your hand on the new Mr. Frankie Knuckles version of "Back in the day" and see what I'm talking about....or play the new Kevin Yost's "Blow your Mind".

eh, what do I kow anyway.... graemlins/conf44.gif

[Wild i]

Okay, this may sound silly, but I've listening to some of the music programmed on the cablevision (NY - BX, BKLYN, SI) menu channel and it's some of the most interesting house I've heard in a long time. Maybe it just seems that way because I'm usually involved in other things at the time and, having taken a break to see what on the toob and finding nothing, consider that music to be a good backdrop to my chores. But listen to it on Saturday and Sunday morning. It's pretty hot stuff.

The only thing is, it's usally not mixed, but I've been wondering for a while who's doing the programming there. Some of you NYers give a listen and get back to me about whether you agree or disagree.

[Ronnie Ron]

This is a very interesting thread and has some merit. In my opinion, I see a lot of folks playing more R&B tunes remixed into House Tracks, In only my opinion that is boring as HELL!!! and im also hearing mix sets and getting mixes from people with the same records on them, Somebody please dig deep and come up with some shit, There are records out there play them please and stop copying from the So Called big name DJ's, If i here this certain record on a mix or mix set one more time im gonna SCREAM!!!! nice one TAC

R-R

[ June 29, 2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: RonnieRon ]

[mdpm99]

a house is not a home without music....

d

[And]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
The labeling of so many sub-genres is what's screwed everything up. There's a lot of great, danceable music out there. You just have to look a little deeper than before. So many DJs get caught up in the labeling game: "I play xYz" - then they go to record stores and labels and wonder why x, Y, and z is all they ever get.

If we can get beyond the labeling and pay attention to the dance floor instead, we will be alright. There are numerous posts each week about NON HOUSE producers and NON HOUSE tracks - the fact that we even have to call them NON HOUSE goes to my point.

Good music is good music, the cream can and usually will rise to the top, and to hell with the traditionalists, labellers or the pidgeon-holers. Just play great music and work the crowd. graemlins/grinyes.gif (yeah I know again).

[DJ Rated M]

Originally posted by RonnieRon:
This is a very interesting thread and has some merit. In my opinion, I see a lot of folks playing more R&B tunes remixed into House Tracks, In only my opinion that is boring as HELL!!! and im also hearing mix sets and getting mixes from people with the same records on them, Somebody please dig deep and come up with some shit, There are records out there play them please and stop copying from the So Called big name DJ's, If i here this certain record on a mix or mix set one more time im gonna SCREAM!!!! nice one TAC

R-R nah man, i will have to disagree with you on the R&B/house stuff....

there's a lot of BANGIN tracks like that......the Brandy, Amerie, Deborah Cox, Atlantic Starr, and even that wack ass Ashanti(Lazy Dog mixes are TIGHT)......

[Ronnie Ron]

Originally posted by DJ Rated M:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RonnieRon:
This is a very interesting thread and has some merit. In my opinion, I see a lot of folks playing more R&B tunes remixed into House Tracks, In only my opinion that is boring as HELL!!! and im also hearing mix sets and getting mixes from people with the same records on them, Somebody please dig deep and come up with some shit, There are records out there play them please and stop copying from the So Called big name DJ's, If i here this certain record on a mix or mix set one more time im gonna SCREAM!!!! nice one TAC

R-R nah man, i will have to disagree with you on the R&B/house stuff....

there's a lot of BANGIN tracks like that......the Brandy, Amerie, Deborah Cox, Atlantic Starr, and even that wack ass Ashanti(Lazy Dog mixes are TIGHT)...... </font>[/QUOTE]Im not saying that the tracks are no good, im just saying its not original and can be quite boring when everyone and there mother is playing them....... never said they werent nice tracks.

[Bernie]

Music (period) should capture the Essence of Soul, where it moves people. Great lyrics & vocals help accomplish this.

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
The labeling of so many sub-genres is what's screwed everything up. There's a lot of great, danceable music out there. You just have to look a little deeper than before. So many DJs get caught up in the labeling game: "I play xYz" - then they go to record stores and labels and wonder why x, Y, and z is all they ever get.

If we can get beyond the labeling and pay attention to the dance floor instead, we will be alright. There are numerous posts each week about NON HOUSE producers and NON HOUSE tracks - the fact that we even have to call them NON HOUSE goes to my point.

Good music is good music, the cream can and usually will rise to the top, and to hell with the traditionalists, labellers or the pidgeon-holers. Just play great music and work the crowd. yeah the SUB genre thing is a major BLOCK4 all MUSIC
period the sad and shocking thing its coming from so-called music lovers & not just the corperations & media

yeah I'm trying not 2 go 2 that other 4 NON -HOUSE thing and curse everbody out these narrow views of music is choking
especially in light of none of these(house/hiphop/polka/etc...) would not exist
without outside of the box thinkers and doers
and tone of cross polinating of all kind of flavors and elements

no music exist without the other

its about that but peole just want what they like 2 become hot all over again with out injection of a something different in the mix

anyways as far as east coast producers we are way to smoothed out wish people wouldn't be so afraid of a lil dirt and pump of a kick and some different DRUM patterns and where is the grooves??? graemlins/conf44.gif

[ June 29, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Ron paizley ]

[mhd]

damn TAC, another race thread

[Ronnie Ron]

Originally posted by Ron paizley:

anyways as far as east coast producers we are way to smoothed out wish people wouldn't be so afraid of a lil dirt and pump of a kick and some different DRUM patterns and where is the grooves??? graemlins/conf44.gif [/QB]IMO Amen Brotha!

R-R

[lyot]

Originally posted by mhd:
damn TAC, another race thread graemlins/lol.gif

[The Buddy Love Show]

damn....and peeps used to hate on my HOUSE IS DEAD series....i guess it takes time to see that the emperors threads are nonexistant

now if i could just dream about this weeks lotto numbers

[And]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular but I've been wondering when people complain House is getting boring or they're hearing the same old whatever, do they think maybe THEY are the ones getting boring? Not that I haven't shared some of the sentiments expressed but I also know that when it comes to music, there is sooooooo much out there, if what I'm hearing around me isn't doing it for me then I should spice it up myself. Old to me is new to someone else is whack to another is excellent for another ... etc, etc, etc.
I say this 'cause I'm reminded of many, many times I've listened to a cd/Dj and heard things I know I haven't heard before even if I've played it a trillion times, or seen the Dj a ton. Also, I really like that JMNYC touched on the need to dig deeper. The fun of House to me is the adventure or challenge involved in learning to hear it in different ways.

[ June 29, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: 6 23 ]

[mdpm99]

Originally posted by Bernie:
Music (period) should capture the Essence of Soul, where it moves people. Great lyrics & vocals help accomplish this. Greetings Bernie:

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

d

Ps. to TAC: great thread.... smile.gif

[ June 29, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

[lyot]

Originally posted by 6 23:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular but I've been wondering when people complain House is getting boring or they're hearing the same old whatever, do they think maybe THEY are the ones getting boring? Not that I haven't shared some of the sentiments expressed but I also know that when it comes to music, there is sooooooo much out there, if what I'm hearing around me isn't doing it for me then I should spice it up myself. Old to me is new to someone else is whack to another is excellent for another ... etc, etc, etc. I've also thought about it . That it's just me who's getting boring since I dislike most of contemporary music. The problem is that most of this new music is in a certain sense too 'uni-dimensional' to me . There's certainly a lot of okay stuff out that catches some of my attention. But it has difficulties to really 'fill me up',like is much more easy the case with more of the older stuff . It doesn't give me the same emotional bliss like most of the old disco stuff, which at the same time sounds 'deep', 'uplifting', 'joyfull'..Multidimensional in a sense.

Of course, there's newer stuff that crosses barriers and isn't completely paterned into one direction. I realize that it's a constant digging struggle to find these gemms..Maybe this is just a complaint because i'm too lazy to invest all my time in hunting. Anyway, i seem a bit lost with the contemporary stuff.

[JMNYC]

Originally posted by Grant Beige:
or i hear a record like the Blaze Jocelyn Brown/L holloway thing that's out on King Street. it seems to sum up how tired this music can be
Just an aside - I would tend to agree with you on this one, although the responses that we've gotten from DJs around the world and the sales of the record indicate otherwise. IMHO, this is probably one of the biggest parts of the problem right there.

[TAC]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Grant Beige:
or i hear a record like the Blaze Jocelyn Brown/L holloway thing that's out on King Street. it seems to sum up how tired this music can be
IMHO, this is probably one of the biggest parts of the problem right there. </font>[/QUOTE]Your not clear, explain.

[DJ76]

Sometimes, one can also get saturated from it all. Take a 6 months break from it and come back clear-minded. You'll find lots of little treasures. We can get so involved in this thing that sometimes it becomes more complicated than fvcking ants. There's lots and lots of good music out there.

Someone made a comment re: amp fiddler / Moodymann. I have to say that the amp fiddler tracks haven't excited me more than anything else, but MM's new album has some fresh tunes... Guess it's a matter of taste.

Think a little bit out of the box and explore. I've been hearing some nice groups in Europe that have good music to offer. They are easily disgarded because they don't fit in the traditional north american house sound, which is too bad.

[darrow]

Originally posted by TAC:
... FWIW, there is some killing dance music that doesn't even sound like house, but it sure would be House if given an outlet!

Peace
TAC Hey TAC, can you give some examples of the music you are talking about? Song titles? Artists?

[TAC]

Originally posted by darrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
... FWIW, there is some killing dance music that doesn't even sound like house, but it sure would be House if given an outlet!

Peace
TAC Hey TAC, can you give some examples of the music you are talking about? Song titles? Artists? </font>[/QUOTE]Check my June Nu Grooves and Ruminations when I post it later today. Lots of crap in there. Even so I'm still bored.

[Jamie 3:26]

Originally posted by JMNYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Grant Beige:
or i hear a record like the Blaze Jocelyn Brown/L holloway thing that's out on King Street. it seems to sum up how tired this music can be
Just an aside - I would tend to agree with you on this one, although the responses that we've gotten from DJs around the world and the sales of the record indicate otherwise. IMHO, this is probably one of the biggest parts of the problem right there. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry Jon,that record sucks..plain and simple.I listened to it and if I have to try to find something about a tune,it ain't even worth it anymore.I saw it and immediately pulled it.Put it on and was like uuuuugh.

That kinda shit pisses me off.I no longer just buy tunes for someones name,it has to move me.

It could be big with a gay crowd if there was a more energetic mix on it.hell any crowd for that matter.I like deep and soulful shit,but I also like a pure banger.From the line-up,I figured so.

[darrow]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by darrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
... FWIW, there is some killing dance music that doesn't even sound like house, but it sure would be House if given an outlet!

Peace
TAC Hey TAC, can you give some examples of the music you are talking about? Song titles? Artists? </font>[/QUOTE]Check my June Nu Grooves and Ruminations when I post it later today. Lots of crap in there. Even so I'm still bored. </font>[/QUOTE]cool. I look forward to the post.

[Drrtynewyork]

Tac, what do you think about the progression of dance music in europe? do you think its equally as boring?

[TAC]

Originally posted by DOUG GOMEZ:
Tac, what do you think about the progression of dance music in europe? do you think its equally as boring? We sent them House/Garage they send us back Twisted Sister...

I have no freaking idea!

[kev]

It also seems that alot of DJs are playing new records b/c they're new, and not b/c they feel them.

[Jamie 3:26]

Originally posted by kevin koga:
It also seems that alot of DJs are playing new records b/c they're new, and not b/c they feel them. Exactly.I still play cuts from the periods of 93-03.I played Been a long time and that shit sounded sooo good and brought so many memories back.

That's one of the reasons this music does not have long shelf life.Cats think a cut is old if it's over 2-4 weeks old.

[Mike Johnson]

There is a little bit of “stale-ness” going on in house right now. And Tac, I’m with you on the lack of “texture” (whatever it may mean). What I think has happened is that people have developed this understanding of “underground” as meaning music at a certain tempo (124 bpm’s or higher), or music with a certain feel (the “boom chic boom chic thing), or only songs with certain themes or messages, etc. etc. Househeads usually accuse hip hop/rnb heads of being closed minded, especially with respect to tempo, but househeads are equally as guilty. I think back to the 70’s / 80’s and the music I heard and experienced in the “underground” and it was definitely more of a mixed bag tempo-wise than the music that is presented now. The current understanding is that you can create and add texture to a mix, a set, an experience out at a club by simply playing tracks with different beat structures or drum patterns (you know from straight 4/4 to afro beat, to Latin beat, to smoothed out Naked music, to screamin’ diva house), but don’t dare change the tempo, because then it wouldn’t be “underground” or “house” and people won’t dance to it (part of the same argument espoused on the opposite end by hip hop / rnb heads). Whatever happened to mid-tempo sets, down-tempo sets? With the exception of playing some current rnb to bring the tempo down, one is left to playing classics to bringing the tempo down in a club set (this also holds true for rnb / hip hop jocks who if they want to pick the pace up at a party, they’re left to playing “old skool” to bring the tempo up). I don’t think jocks challenge their audiences (or themselves) enough these days. If some or many of us jocks are true descendants of pioneers such as Larry Levan, Tee Scott, Dave Mancuso, Ron Hardy, etc., then you should know that they not only played what they felt the crowd wanted to hear, but they also played what they believed the crowd should hear and experience. The story is often told about Levan that he would play a track that he fully believed in until the crowd got it, whether they liked it or not from its initial debut on a sound system. And tempo didn’t matter. Think of some our most treasured dance classics. Tempo-wise, they’re all over the place, from something as down-tempo as “It Ain’t No Big Thing” or “E2E4” to really up-tempo joints like “Nobody’s Got Time” or “Loving Is Really My Game” with hundreds more in between. Today’s crowds have gotten so grooved on dancing at one tempo and one tempo only (pick your audience, be it underground or mainstream) because they have been conditioned by jocks. I don’t fully buy the argument that jocks are playing what crowds want to hear – I think there’s a little more of jocks being fearful of challenging the crowds to “get it.” If you believe, as a jock, that you’ve got a pulse on what a good piece of music should sound like and how it should be presented, and the fact that you believe it should be played, then play the damn thing. Tempo shouldn’t matter. The fact that it doesn’t fit in the present construct of “this is what everybody else is playing” shouldn’t matter much either. People like to speak of the days of when you could hear house, hip hop, rnb and reggae all I the same night, but nobody practices what they preach. If you feel there’s some good rnb out there, why not play it out. Same thing for a piece of hip hop – and so what if it’s a mainstream joint, play it anyway just to break things up a little every now and them. One should not have to dig in the old-skool crate to change the texture of a set. I was excited when I first heard Common’s “I Am Music.” I was like, “we need more of this type of stuff.” Unfortunately, there wasn’t much of anything else new coming out that could supplement this track – it left me diggin’ in the “old-skool” crate again. Producers maybe have to do a little more to address that issue (if they see it as an issue at all). Dancing was never “one-size-fits-all.” Hopefully, producers, remixers, and jocks alike will keep this in mind as we move FORWARD.

my long 2 cents worth of ranting

[Sharp Eye Washington]

Is there anyone outside of DJ's who buy house music? I stopped buying house when I saw that I could get most of the same tunes from various DJ's on mix cassettes & now CD's.

[TAC]

Mike tight post. You hit a lot of valid points. I wish I had the time to get into it.

Peace
TAC

[ June 30, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]