View Full Version : c. powell "this is bullshit"
lesysteme
06-02-2003, 06:38 PM
not that this is a suprise
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030531/wl_mideast_afp/us_iraq_powell_030531004225
gotta love the war machine.
did he lose about 500 cool points with that one or what? icon_rofl.gif
mdpm99
06-02-2003, 07:49 PM
Thank you for the info!
smile.gif
d
What else is new? What a great gubment we have, huh? icon_rofl.gif
ChiJAM
06-03-2003, 06:56 AM
Whatever, Colin...You lost all credibility as you repeatedly went before the UN spewing that bullsh*t, so don't try to separate yourself from the pack now. I bet your son reluctantly bowed to the powers that be in yesterday's historic FCC action, too, right?
ChiJAM
Leslie
06-03-2003, 06:58 AM
I ain't even tryin' to hear it! AR15firing.gif
ChiJAM I'm right there with ya on this one!
GROOVE VICTIM
06-03-2003, 07:02 AM
Colin has been royally screwing himself since he joined Bush's administration.
Dreams of being the first black president are out the window if you ask me.
Don't get me started on his son.
Where are the Ojays when you need them.
lola desire
06-03-2003, 07:37 AM
haha!
serves him right!
is good fuh yuh!
i told you so!
how else can one rub it in... oh yeah: http://www.mustangmods.com/data/1422/pointlaugh.gif
lesysteme
06-03-2003, 07:59 AM
personally i see this as an issue about white house subversion of justice, not colin powells reputation.
hes not trying to separate himself from anyone, in fact he's denying most of what the article claims.
this isnt about colin being black or whatever blah blah..this is about the worst case of lying to the public by the white house since watergate. america, please wake up soon.
GROOVE VICTIM
06-03-2003, 08:01 AM
He stepped into this pool of shit on his own, no one forced him to.
Peace
Leslie
06-03-2003, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
He stepped into this pool of shit on his own, no one forced him to.
Peace True dat - he voluntarily co-signed that shit.
ChiJAM
06-03-2003, 08:34 AM
personally i see this as an issue about white house subversion of justice, not colin powells reputation.
hes not trying to separate himself from anyone, in fact he's denying most of what the article claims.
this isnt about colin being black or whatever blah blah..this is about the worst case of lying to the public by the white house since watergate. america, please wake up soon. The article says what the article says--post some other ones with different vantage points, if you disagree with the tenor, tone or veracity.
ChiJAM
Cheney basically asked Powell to lie - holy shit. Thanks for posting this James.
lesysteme
06-03-2003, 08:41 AM
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone.
Austin/Dallas
06-03-2003, 08:49 AM
What was he thinking..Oh!! he thought he was part of the team or something cause he was able to attend meeting and make a apearances.. He had a cake walk...
Now he sees what his job title means to his peers..Escape Goat.
ChiJAM
06-03-2003, 09:04 AM
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone.
I understand what the article is saying. However, finger-pointing and he said/she said is not going to give this boy his arms back.
ChiJAM
http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/mirror/apr2003/0/9/00044592-264A-1E92-820480BFB6FA0000.jpg
Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside
GROOVE VICTIM
06-03-2003, 09:45 AM
Anyone remember what J.C. Watts had to go through when matters of racism and the republican party came up?
anyone remember who was asked to explain the supreme court's decision awarding the presidency to Bush? Uncle Clarence
lesysteme
06-03-2003, 09:49 AM
with no disrespect, but are you kidding me?
after all of the white washing by the media during the war, reports are FINALLY coming to light that show what really was goin on during the lead up to the invasion. ofcourse every report and outlet has their bias ofcourse i agree, but we have to keep focused on them and give them attention so they dont get lost in the clutter.
i realize that the past cant be rewritten (maybe you werent checking in whilst i was taking a beating from this board with my anit war stance, so whilst appreciate your sharing the images, youre preaching to the choir here smile.gif )
but we have to try and make this govt accountable. and when we get lost on the real issues at hand and allow ourselves to be baited by issues like colin powells race and how he dug his own grave, the real culprits of the story walk away freely....or get re-elected...
Leslie
06-03-2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Anyone remember what J.C. Watts had to go through when matters of racism and the republican party came up? What ever happened to him? After he realized he needed money....
[ June 03, 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Leslie ]
Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge
06-03-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Anyone remember what J.C. Watts had to go through when matters of racism and the republican party came up? What ever happened to him? After he realized he needed money.... </font>[/QUOTE]He retired a year ago, to be a family man.
der geile hund
06-03-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]That may be part of it, but he was also the only member of the Administration that wouldn't come across as a Stanley Kubrick character. When I talk to people here in Europe, he's the only Bushie who people like and trust, and they were extremely disappointed by his UN bullshit.
lesysteme
06-03-2003, 09:53 AM
oh i give up..you guys win..its a race story...yes i mis-understood.
uncle tom and all.
listen, cheney wouldve done the same thing if the secretary of state was a jew from florida....
take care
Originally posted by lesysteme:
with no disrespect, but are you kidding me?
after all of the white washing by the media during the war, reports are FINALLY coming to light that show what really was goin on during the lead up to the invasion. ofcourse every report and outlet has their bias ofcourse i agree, but we have to keep focused on them and give them attention so they dont get lost in the clutter.
i realize that the past cant be rewritten (maybe you werent checking in whilst i was taking a beating from this board with my anit war stance, so whilst appreciate your sharing the images, youre preaching to the choir here smile.gif )
but we have to try and make this govt accountable. and when we get lost on the real issues at hand and allow ourselves to be baited by issues like colin powells race and how he dug his own grave, the real culprits of the story walk away freely....or get re-elected... well, if people like you made this government accountable on issues like race maybe they would not even be in power now. forgive me for not having your perspective on reality
Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge
06-03-2003, 09:53 AM
These Bush administration f-u-ckers have GOT to go! graemlins/cussing.gif
GROOVE VICTIM
06-03-2003, 09:53 AM
Powell is the Secretary of State. The Chief Diplomat, the guy who's gonna have to explain everything. They throw him on a plane and toss him out to the lions. While Bush is trying to come up with this peace plan in the middle east that if you ask me is another futile attempt, Colin Powell is doing the dirty work of Rumsfeld, Bush and Cheney. It's not that he was asked to do it, it's because HE HAS TO, it's his job.
Peace
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
He stepped into this pool of shit on his own, no one forced him to.
Peace True dat - he voluntarily co-signed that shit. </font>[/QUOTE]Gotcha. If he was really black, he would have told everyone in the White House to flip off and called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to help him pray on it.
Ridiculous. How many of you co-sign shit every day at your jobs that you have no control over? Being Sec of State don't make a muthafuka AUTONOMOUS. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by der geile hund:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]That may be part of it, but he was also the only member of the Administration that wouldn't come across as a Stanley Kubrick character. When I talk to people here in Europe, he's the only Bushie who people like and trust, and they were extremely disappointed by his UN bullshit. </font>[/QUOTE]He is likable by design, he appears trustworthy by design, that is why he was appointed, that is why he was asked to lie
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by serge:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Anyone remember what J.C. Watts had to go through when matters of racism and the republican party came up? What ever happened to him? After he realized he needed money.... </font>[/QUOTE]He retired a year ago, to be a family man. </font>[/QUOTE]He retired because he finally realized he was a slave foreman.
GROOVE VICTIM
06-03-2003, 09:57 AM
Like Will Smith, Colin Powell is the type of Black man White America can "Trust". "He's not like those other guys."
Peace
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Like Will Smith, Colin Powell is the type of Black man White America can "Trust". "He's not like those other guys."
Peace You should walk into the bathroom, look in the mirror and SMACK YOURSELF for posting this shit.
Originally posted by lesysteme:
oh i give up..you guys win..its a race story...yes i mis-understood.
uncle tom and all.
listen, cheney wouldve done the same thing if the secretary of state was a jew from florida....
take care except it wasn't a jew from florida... adios, but you know you love arguing about race, or should i say arguing that its not/never/ever about race
GROOVE VICTIM
06-03-2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Like Will Smith, Colin Powell is the type of Black man White America can "Trust". "He's not like those other guys."
Peace You should walk into the bathroom, look in the mirror and SMACK YOURSELF for posting this shit. </font>[/QUOTE]It's the truth and you know it. Why do you think he's in the position he is in today?
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 10:04 AM
...
[ June 03, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Like Will Smith, Colin Powell is the type of Black man White America can "Trust". "He's not like those other guys."
Peace You should walk into the bathroom, look in the mirror and SMACK YOURSELF for posting this shit. </font>[/QUOTE]It's the truth and you know it. Why do you think he's in the position he is in today? </font>[/QUOTE]Hmmm...experience, track records, networking, connections, saving a muthafukas life once in a while, earning the respect of his peers...
Why is it that black men always project their self-esteem limits on the way they see their counterparts? It would be just as rational to ASSUME in the other direction, but NOOOOO - he has to be a "hand picked nigga"...
Stop projecting your perceived limits on others. And read his bio for goodness sake.
[ June 03, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]
GROOVE VICTIM
06-03-2003, 10:11 AM
You must've never been placed in a position where you're are highly regarded but forced to explain yourself for other people's f_ckups. Been there done that.
I'm not judgin Colin on his past because he deserves everything he worked for, but don't think for a second that he's "one of the guys" because he's not.
As for J.C. Watts, this happened to him on many occasions. Why was he the one to have to explain the BS that the Republican party created when it came to matters of race. Ohh he's the black one, he knows his people type of garbage.
Leslie
06-03-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leslie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
He stepped into this pool of shit on his own, no one forced him to.
Peace True dat - he voluntarily co-signed that shit. </font>[/QUOTE]Gotcha. If he was really black, he would have told everyone in the White House to flip off and called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to help him pray on it.
Ridiculous. How many of you co-sign shit every day at your jobs that you have no control over? Being Sec of State don't make a muthafuka AUTONOMOUS. :rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]Then don't take the job - PERIOD. As Secetary of State he knew full and well some shit like this would come up - the man is no idiot, and as former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who know's what he's asked of other in the past. So again, he took the job, deal with the stink that could follow. No one here said anything about autonomy, he was asked to lie and he did was he was asked to do, he chose to do it, deal with how people view you after that. In the end what does it matter anyway??
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
You must've never been placed in a position where you're are highly regarded but forced to explain yourself for other people's f_ckups. Been there done that.
I'm not judgin Colin on his past because he deserves everything he worked for, but don't think for a second that he's "one of the guys" because he's not.
As for J.C. Watts, this happened to him on many occasions. Why was he the one to have to explain the BS that the Republican party created when it came to matters of race. Ohh he's the black one, he knows his people type of garbage. Obviously not one of the guys, because he wouldn't be displaying in front of everyone his angst over carrying out his orders. It's getting so bad for the guy that he's regurgitating anxiety. In psychological terms, he's conflicted.
This is why I have faith in him.
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Powell is the Secretary of State. The Chief Diplomat, the guy who's gonna have to explain everything. They throw him on a plane and toss him out to the lions. While Bush is trying to come up with this peace plan in the middle east that if you ask me is another futile attempt, Colin Powell is doing the dirty work of Rumsfeld, Bush and Cheney. It's not that he was asked to do it, it's because HE HAS TO, it's his job.
Peace Yes, this is very clear. I agree. I also think this is why Powell has a future beyond the rest of this one term/lame duck regime.
daniel
06-03-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by lesysteme:
oh i give up..you guys win..its a race story...yes i mis-understood.
uncle tom and all.
listen, cheney wouldve done the same thing if the secretary of state was a jew from florida....
take care "as long as you think about the irony" - hs
lesysteme
06-03-2003, 10:59 AM
daniel wang is from florida????i never knew!
Originally posted by lesysteme:
daniel wang is from florida????i never knew! He's from Broward County, the most controversial part of Florida.
The Buddy Love Show
06-03-2003, 11:19 AM
more and more the truth comes out
btw..where are the administration mouthpieces on this board who were preaching the bullshit as though it wre gospel
specifically basecore boy and leonard rroy .. they are so curiously quiet NOW
how intellectually dishonest
daniel
06-03-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Doug:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
daniel wang is from florida????i never knew! He's from Broward County, the most controversial part of Florida. </font>[/QUOTE]Dade County mutha****a! blam! blam!
jsd540
06-03-2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by lesysteme:
personally i see this as an issue about white house subversion of justice, not colin powells reputation.
. I agree, If you think your boss pressures you during the day, can you even imagine what the president can do to Colin ...
daniel
06-03-2003, 11:34 AM
"you juss' go tell them YOU-N boys what I needs you to so I can put on muh cowboy hat"
mdpm99
06-03-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]Greetings mhd:
"I am not a crook"
Richard Milhouse Nixon
d
Ps
Nixon/Bu$hit
Agnew/Cheny
Kissinger/Powell
Rice/Pat Nixon
getting me drift?
PPs.
As I orginally posted way back when I first joined DHP, " You have a Dick, a Bush, and a Colin in the White House......go figure. smile.gif
[ June 03, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]
jsd540
06-03-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by daniel:
"you juss' go tell them YOU-N boys what I needs you to so I can put on muh cowboy hat" icon_rofl.gif I'm sure youre pretty close...
do you guys really think Colin Powell wasn't aware that WMD was NOT the decisive reason to start this whole Iraq crisis ? He's been fronting just as much as all the other members of governement that are involved in this .
And it's really sad to see how this turns out to become yet another race topic
Originally posted by Bold Soul:
If he was really black, he would have told everyone in the White House to flip off and called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to help him pray on it.
Ridiculous. How many of you co-sign shit every day at your jobs that you have no control over? Being Sec of State don't make a muthafuka AUTONOMOUS. :rolleyes: gotcha...in a nutshell. he just should've said "this is muthafukkin' bullshit" rather than "this is bullshit"...
Originally posted by lyot:
And it's really sad to see how this turns out to become yet another race topic nah man, its not about race, its never about race, we're making this stuff up and colin ain't black
Mark, in your opinion, what is the primary issue here?
Originally posted by JL:
Mark, in your opinion, what is the primary issue here? depends on what you mean by "here"
sorry for the ambiguity, i meant in the article that was posted.
could have meant "here" as in on the dhp
To clarify, what do you think is the primary issue in the article?
Leslie
06-03-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by mhd:
could have meant "here" as in on the dhp :rolleyes: ;)
Lawyers....
daniel
06-03-2003, 04:39 PM
"it matters what "is" is."
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
If he was really black, he would have told everyone in the White House to flip off and called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to help him pray on it.
Ridiculous. How many of you co-sign shit every day at your jobs that you have no control over? Being Sec of State don't make a muthafuka AUTONOMOUS. :rolleyes: gotcha...in a nutshell. he just should've said "this is muthafukkin' bullshit" rather than "this is bullshit"... </font>[/QUOTE]How about - "Maaannn, y'all be bullshittin'!"
graemlins/rofl.gif
Dolemite73
06-03-2003, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
If he was really black, he would have told everyone in the White House to flip off and called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to help him pray on it.
Ridiculous. How many of you co-sign shit every day at your jobs that you have no control over? Being Sec of State don't make a muthafuka AUTONOMOUS. :rolleyes: gotcha...in a nutshell. he just should've said "this is muthafukkin' bullshit" rather than "this is bullshit"... </font>[/QUOTE]How about - "Maaannn, y'all be bullshittin'!"
graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Hey Bold
Not to jack this thread, but did you get my email?
Bold Soul
06-03-2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Dolemite73:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
If he was really black, he would have told everyone in the White House to flip off and called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to help him pray on it.
Ridiculous. How many of you co-sign shit every day at your jobs that you have no control over? Being Sec of State don't make a muthafuka AUTONOMOUS. :rolleyes: gotcha...in a nutshell. he just should've said "this is muthafukkin' bullshit" rather than "this is bullshit"... </font>[/QUOTE]How about - "Maaannn, y'all be bullshittin'!"
graemlins/rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Hey Bold
Not to jack this thread, but did you get my email? </font>[/QUOTE]Indeed. I've been vibing on your words. I'll hit you back when I can focus more - tonight even.
Dolemite73
06-03-2003, 05:40 PM
ok...i want to put my thoughts on the board. I dont think they are ready for them.
Originally posted by mhd:
could have meant "here" as in on the dhp how about both? here(dhp) and the article.
Originally posted by JL:
To clarify, what do you think is the primary issue in the article? to the author? to the subject of the article? to the reader?
daniel
06-03-2003, 07:08 PM
it'd just be easier if you said you didn't want to answer as anything you say can be misconstrued.
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JL:
To clarify, what do you think is the primary issue in the article? to the author? to the subject of the article? to the reader? </font>[/QUOTE]how about all of the above? everything!
Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JL:
To clarify, what do you think is the primary issue in the article? to the author? to the subject of the article? to the reader? </font>[/QUOTE]how about all of the above? everything! </font>[/QUOTE]Can you separate the act from the man?
Bold Soul
06-04-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JL:
To clarify, what do you think is the primary issue in the article? to the author? to the subject of the article? to the reader? </font>[/QUOTE]how about all of the above? everything! </font>[/QUOTE]Can you separate the act from the man? </font>[/QUOTE]Indeed.
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, let 's put it this way .. All the people involved in this Iraqi war knew from the start the WMD issue wasn't the reason for going into this. Powell was no different. He, Rummi, Wolfowitz, and everyone else involved in this have been falsely maintaining WMD as the reason why this war needed to be waged. They have been outright lying to the public from day one so to speak. As I understand it, you are victimising Powell here (of course, correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point), and in the bigger scheme of events, that's just doesn't seem correct. If someone else had been sitting in Powell's chair on the UN Security Council, they would have asked him the same. Colour of skin isn't an issue imho. The basic question here is just a difference in opinion about 'what we can get away with'. Powell slightly differed from opinion about that, but deeper down, he knew he's was just keeping up a facade just as much as the rest.
greetings,
Bold Soul
06-04-2003, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by lyot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, let 's put it this way .. All the people involved in this Iraqi war knew from the start the WMD issue wasn't the reason for going into this. Powell was no different. He, Rummi, Wolfowitz, and everyone else involved in this have been falsely maintaining WMD as the reason why this war needed to be waged. They have been outright lying to the public from day one so to speak. As I understand it, you are victimising Powell here (of course, correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point), and in the bigger scheme of events, that's just doesn't seem correct. If someone else had been sitting in Powell's chair on the UN Security Council, they would have asked him the same. Colour of skin isn't an issue imho. The basic question here is just a difference in opinion about 'what we can get away with'. Powell slightly differed from opinion about that, but deeper down, he knew he's was just keeping up a facade just as much as the rest.
greetings, </font>[/QUOTE]I somewhat concur, as there have been several indications of his early struggle and subsequent mastery of an outsider's position. Early on, he was abandoned by the administration over foreign policy (totally hung out to dry on Africa and Israel, left to take egg in the UN Race meetings - the appropriate reference escapes me at this late hour). He continued to field open disdain for Rumsfeld's damaging rhetoric and "tough guy" speak and the unilateral decision to invade Iraq without UN approval.
The petty media account of his "this is bullshit" comment does more to separate him from the growing spectre of deceit and irresponsibility emerging from the Bush Admin. than anything. If true, his outburst makes him seem rational and ethical by comparison.
It seems to me that our black heads commenting in this thread are holding Powell to a higher standard because he is black.
He has managed to show dissent appropriate to his position, slow the bleeding caused by US foreign non-policy and actively sidestep any outward "punk moves" where he would play himself in front of those waiting to stab him in the back.
What else should he do? Smack Rumsfeld upside the head? Props.
Bold Soul
06-04-2003, 02:36 AM
Also, to make the point that "it is always a black person who has to do the lying" is a bit of circular logic at work - a Non-Sequitur to be specific.
In this instance, when lying is necessary to further US foreign policy and agenda, the duty falls upon the Secretary of State. It is analogous to the position.
That the position happens to be filled by a black person no more substantiates this logic than maintaining "it is always a man with glasses" or "it is always a male".
FALLACY - Affirming the Consequent: any argument of the form: If A then B, B, therefore A
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/affirm.htm
[ June 04, 2003, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: Bold Soul ]
Originally posted by Bold Soul:
In this instance, when lying is necessary to further US foreign policy and agenda, the duty falls upon the Secretary of State. It is analogous to the position.
I concur. Also, it isn't like Cheney, Rummi, and Bush himself didn't ALSO continuously lie to the public and congress about the perceived threat that Iraq posed to the US.
Mark, if you don't want to offer your opinion, that is fine.
Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, let 's put it this way .. All the people involved in this Iraqi war knew from the start the WMD issue wasn't the reason for going into this. Powell was no different. He, Rummi, Wolfowitz, and everyone else involved in this have been falsely maintaining WMD as the reason why this war needed to be waged. They have been outright lying to the public from day one so to speak. As I understand it, you are victimising Powell here (of course, correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point), and in the bigger scheme of events, that's just doesn't seem correct. If someone else had been sitting in Powell's chair on the UN Security Council, they would have asked him the same. Colour of skin isn't an issue imho. The basic question here is just a difference in opinion about 'what we can get away with'. Powell slightly differed from opinion about that, but deeper down, he knew he's was just keeping up a facade just as much as the rest.
greetings, </font>[/QUOTE]I somewhat concur, as there have been several indications of his early struggle and subsequent mastery of an outsider's position. Early on, he was abandoned by the administration over foreign policy (totally hung out to dry on Africa and Israel, left to take egg in the UN Race meetings - the appropriate reference escapes me at this late hour). He continued to field open disdain for Rumsfeld's damaging rhetoric and "tough guy" speak and the unilateral decision to invade Iraq without UN approval.
The petty media account of his "this is bullshit" comment does more to separate him from the growing spectre of deceit and irresponsibility emerging from the Bush Admin. than anything. If true, his outburst makes him seem rational and ethical by comparison.
It seems to me that our black heads commenting in this thread are holding Powell to a higher standard because he is black.
He has managed to show dissent appropriate to his position, slow the bleeding caused by US foreign non-policy and actively sidestep any outward "punk moves" where he would play himself in front of those waiting to stab him in the back.
What else should he do? Smack Rumsfeld upside the head? Props. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree. But I also think Powell would have maintained his moderate stance if he hadn't been played by the French back in the early part of this year. His stance and demeanor totally changed after that, which, unfortunately for him, played right into the hands of Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney and Bush. You have to kind of wonder if Bush's plan all along was to use Powell as nothing more than the pretty bow and wrapping paper on the package of shit he was trying to give to the world.
[ June 04, 2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Doug ]
Originally posted by JL:
Mark, if you don't want to offer your opinion, that is fine. if you don't want to engage the opinions i have offered that is fine too
About what? You avoiding a simple and direct question?
I did see your other points in this thread, and based on those wanted to know what you thought the main issue was w. this colin powell incident.
Originally posted by lyot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, let 's put it this way .. All the people involved in this Iraqi war knew from the start the WMD issue wasn't the reason for going into this. Powell was no different. He, Rummi, Wolfowitz, and everyone else involved in this have been falsely maintaining WMD as the reason why this war needed to be waged. They have been outright lying to the public from day one so to speak. As I understand it, you are victimising Powell here (of course, correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point), and in the bigger scheme of events, that's just doesn't seem correct. If someone else had been sitting in Powell's chair on the UN Security Council, they would have asked him the same. Colour of skin isn't an issue imho. The basic question here is just a difference in opinion about 'what we can get away with'. Powell slightly differed from opinion about that, but deeper down, he knew he's was just keeping up a facade just as much as the rest.
greetings, </font>[/QUOTE]all due respect, there is a huge race issue here, if you don't see it, fine, i'm not surprised.
Bold Soul
06-04-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, let 's put it this way .. All the people involved in this Iraqi war knew from the start the WMD issue wasn't the reason for going into this. Powell was no different. He, Rummi, Wolfowitz, and everyone else involved in this have been falsely maintaining WMD as the reason why this war needed to be waged. They have been outright lying to the public from day one so to speak. As I understand it, you are victimising Powell here (of course, correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point), and in the bigger scheme of events, that's just doesn't seem correct. If someone else had been sitting in Powell's chair on the UN Security Council, they would have asked him the same. Colour of skin isn't an issue imho. The basic question here is just a difference in opinion about 'what we can get away with'. Powell slightly differed from opinion about that, but deeper down, he knew he's was just keeping up a facade just as much as the rest.
greetings, </font>[/QUOTE]all due respect, there is a huge race issue here, if you don't see it, fine, i'm not surprised. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh - there is a HUGE race issue. And it can be seen, if one considers the choice of Colin Powell as Sec. of State in the first place - a man who is diametrically opposed to Bush, Bush's pops and the ultra-conservative and fundamentalist environment of his administration and the policies that emanate from within.
der geile hund
06-04-2003, 10:04 AM
Diametrically opposed?! He is an ex-General who has loyally served Reagan and both Bushes, and although he radiates decency, has presumably done his share of unsavoriness. That's a mighty strange kind of opposition ...
Bold Soul
06-04-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by der geile hund:
Diametrically opposed?! He is an ex-General who has loyally served Reagan and both Bushes, and although he radiates decency, has presumably done his share of unsavoriness. That's a mighty strange kind of opposition ... Read his words. Hear him speak. Watch his history of involvement. Soldiers don't get to pick who they loyally serve - they serve the USA, whoever is leading it notwithstanding.
I don't know how those in the military do it in Europe. Maybe they get to go on vacation when a new President/Prime Minister they disagree with takes office.
:rolleyes:
der geile hund
06-04-2003, 10:10 AM
Dunno, in Germany they don't let many generals into politics any more ... but yeah, every article I read about him talks about his army man's sense of loyalty in order to explain why he has been so faithful and uncomplaining over the years, but a) he's not in the army any more, and b) at some point he becomes culpable for what goes on around him. Unless he is indeed a big black marionette.
Don't get me wrong, though, I'm VERY glad he's part of this Administration.
[ June 04, 2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: der geile hund ]
Originally posted by der geile hund:
he radiates decency
hmmmm...
Bold Soul
06-04-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by der geile hund:
he radiates decency
hmmmm... </font>[/QUOTE]Indeed...hmmm...
der geile hund
06-04-2003, 10:28 AM
Hmmmmmmm what? This is the essence of his charisma.
DD Licious
06-04-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lyot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lesysteme:
thanks JL.
seriously guys, this is the point of the article.
the vice president of the united states was asking his secretary of state to lie to the UN.
i hope this point is not lost on anyone. you may be missing our point, its always the black guy that is asked to lie, the ultimate outsider, even when he is inside </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, let 's put it this way .. All the people involved in this Iraqi war knew from the start the WMD issue wasn't the reason for going into this. Powell was no different. He, Rummi, Wolfowitz, and everyone else involved in this have been falsely maintaining WMD as the reason why this war needed to be waged. They have been outright lying to the public from day one so to speak. As I understand it, you are victimising Powell here (of course, correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point), and in the bigger scheme of events, that's just doesn't seem correct. If someone else had been sitting in Powell's chair on the UN Security Council, they would have asked him the same. Colour of skin isn't an issue imho. The basic question here is just a difference in opinion about 'what we can get away with'. Powell slightly differed from opinion about that, but deeper down, he knew he's was just keeping up a facade just as much as the rest.
greetings, </font>[/QUOTE]all due respect, there is a huge race issue here, if you don't see it, fine, i'm not surprised. </font>[/QUOTE]well, like I said, i would be glad to hear your point, because indeed, I do not get it.. so teach me please .. smile.gif
oeps, Dd licious was still logged it.. I wrote that comment Mark & others..
greetings,
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