A "caucasian" club ?

[imported_Gman]

I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G

[JMJ]

Ahh, the irony.......JMJ ;)

[erd]

The NAACP is right.

Peace.

Gerd

[Fred Naked]

Most kinda clubs exclude some type of human being, cause clubs have rules. The best clubs are those that have friendly rules (DHP) about living with each other.

Does anyone have the right to start a club that will exclude a certain type?

Swings and roundabouts... You should be able to start a private club right? You don't want a certain type of person in it surely if it's your club you can refuse membership, yeah? Apply this to the caucasian club situation...

difference is that you're discriminating...

I dunno, deep question...

['Magic' Juan]

Last I heard, the club was called KKK.

magic_juan

[CG63]

Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Last I heard, the club was called KKK.

magic_juan graemlins/grinyes.gif

[MC]

Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Last I heard, the club was called KKK.

magic_juan Yes Sir !!

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G Assuming that this is an all black school or other ethincities, what's the difference with this girl wanting to be in touch with her "Culture". We as Afican Americans, Latino, and other ethnicities do the same thing.


When the shoes on the other foot, we want to jump up and complain. Makes no sense to me these days.

[ivanjb]

I could see a culture club being positive, but not a color or race club. Unless of course, the white kids are the major minorities and need some sort of support, friends etc.. But calling it the caucasian club is stupid.

[JMJ]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G Assuming that this is an all black school or other ethincities, what's the difference with this girl wanting to be in touch with her "Culture". We as Afican Americans, Latino, and other ethnicities do the same thing.


When the shoes on the other foot, we want to jump up and complain. Makes no sense to me these days. </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo.......JMJ

[Jay Rags]

What exactly is the Caucasion culture and what are you going to teach other caucasions about this culture? There has been crimes against humanity by Caucasions that I believe can only be healed by not trying, as a majority people, to segregate themselves out of spite or just because the minority groups have student unions. One of the nicer things about having different student unions is that you can have different events or even parties, that you could go to that you felt comfortable going to. Just my thoughts early in the morining graemlins/acclaim.gif

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by jay rags:
What exactly is the Caucasion culture and what are you going to teach other caucasions about this culture? There has been crimes against humanity by Caucasions that I believe can only be healed by not trying, as a majority people, to segregate themselves out of spite or just because the minority groups have student unions. One of the nicer things about having different student unions is that you can have different events or even parties, that you could go to that you felt comfortable going to. Just my thoughts early in the morining graemlins/acclaim.gif All valid questions but you cannot get beyond the human need of "Belonging".


Peace

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Magic Juan:
Last I heard, the club was called KKK.

magic_juan Another name for the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences...(the whitest ****in' EMMYs I ever had the displeasure of watchin').

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G Assuming that this is an all black school or other ethincities, what's the difference with this girl wanting to be in touch with her "Culture". We as Afican Americans, Latino, and other ethnicities do the same thing.


When the shoes on the other foot, we want to jump up and complain. Makes no sense to me these days. </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo.......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo? What are you implying?

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Why is it OK for us as Black People to have our own clubs that teach us about culture and our History, but it's not OK for other races to do the same.

Yes, it's obvious that "HIS Story" has been force fed down our throats, giving us a false perception that "WE" as Black People aren't capable of being Human in many instances, but who says that we need SCHOOL to teach us History when we have Churches, Parents, and Role Models who can teach us as well.


Now what is going to be discussed in this "Caucasion Group", I don't know. European Culture, I don't know. But wanting to be in touch with your history and culture that's not being taught to you in school, regardless of how the history books are written, is something that all people should have a right to.

Peace

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Why is it OK for us as Black People to have our own clubs that teach us about culture and our History, but it's not OK for other races to do the same.

Yes, it's obvious that "HIS Story" has been force fed down our throats, giving us a false perception that "WE" as Black People aren't capable of being Human in many instances, but who says that we need SCHOOL to teach us History when we have Churches, Parents, and Role Models who can teach us as well.


Now what is going to be discussed in this "Caucasion Group", I don't know. European Culture, I don't know. But wanting to be in touch with your history and culture that's not being taught to you in school, regardless of how the history books are written, is something that all people should have a right to.

Peace Is this an implication from a larger sociological context or an enviromental context as it relates to the school?

What you and the ever-elusive JMJ aren't getting here is that the "Afro" and "Latin" clubs address the discrepancy of those cultures on a SOCIOLOGICAL LEVEL - the national culture is painfully "white" and these clubs address that societal alienation by providing some belonging on the school campus. For four years of high school, these kids get a meeting per week and a handful of events per year. It is an attempt to promote positive self images because, once you graduate, it's back to being a "minority" and on the outside for life.

For this white girl to want a "Caucausian" club is something that at its core is asinine (she obviously got that from some adult) because as soon as she steps off the campus, she has her club - SOCIETY as a whole.

Nothing can refuse her entry into the "Afro" or "Latin" clubs of her school. If she wanted to belong, she could join either or both - instead, she wants to further alienate those minorities whom she is already outpacing in society by subverting the effort to instill cultural dignity.

[eric justin]

This is just plain bad. "Caucasian" is not a place, it's a color. If these kids want to do somthing positive, they should research there roots beyond the American border. I see nothing wrong with exploring your English, Irish, German ect.. roots, but starting a club by lumping that all togather and calling it simply a "caucasian" club can't be good.
my two cents :D

[Fletch]

Question. How did she become enrolled in that school? Zoning/area mandate? Choice? Parental mandate? Just asking. Peace.

[Jay Rags]

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I was in school I learned all about the Caucasion culture as it seemed to be a huuuuggge part of the curriculum.....and I went to all black schools growing up. I feel that most Blacks aren't against the forming of student unions by other groups but why would a people, who are the majority need this? Their culture is all over the tv, newspapers, books, and on and on. Like I said, it was even taught in all of my schools growing up and all of my schools growing up were majority Black.

p.s. I went to a club in the dc/balto area this past weekend and the international flavor really made me feel good being around different races that love soulful House music so I hope no one starts anything to mess up my good feeling towards humanity this week.... :D

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by jay rags:
I don't know about the rest of you, but when I was in school I learned all about the Caucasion culture as it seemed to be a huuuuggge part of the curriculum.....and I went to all black schools growing up. I feel that most Blacks aren't against the forming of student unions by other groups but why would a people, who are the majority need this? Their culture is all over the tv, newspapers, books, and on and on. Like I said, it was even taught in all of my schools growing up and all of my schools growing up were majority Black.

p.s. I went to a club in the dc/balto area this past weekend and the international flavor really made me feel good being around different races that love soulful House music so I hope no one starts anything to mess up my good feeling towards humanity this week.... :D Why not a true cultural club, like a French club or Irish club or a Italian club...why does it have to be a "Caucausian" club for this kid? Maybe the adults in her life have done a little talking around the dinner table.

[Wild i]

Brother Malcolm said it best: "The chickens have come home to roost!"

[El Mayimbe]

this club is wrong because if this little white girl wants to "fit in to her culture" more, then just turn on the T.V., flip over to a channel besides the minstrel shows of MTV & read the general American U.S. History books. There woud be a great dosage of "white american culture" there

Believe me I understand the whole double standard issue and I get taken aback when a white person tries to be too apologetic & unproud of themselves BUT america is allready whitewashed as is.

This little girl just watches too many music videos and thinks that just because rap music and one aspect of black culture is out in the forefront that she isnt represented so of course older white people have another agenda on this subject and would love to take up this cause.....for other reasons of course.
YO BOLD SOUL: speaking of the Emmy's, what did u think of the whole Cosby remark to Wanda Sykes?

[Bill Blake]

I think she should start a gang instead.

[fred da warrior]

What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes?

[jurren]

Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...first of all, the girl's fifteen, does anyone quite fit in at highschool at that age?

second, like allready mentioned by many others, why a caucasian club? does having the same skin color, imply you'll have the same interests? why not start a club of people with the same interests or hobbies?

a caucasian club, to me, implies fear towards the group you're trying to alienate yourself from.

jurren

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by EL MAYIMBE:
YO BOLD SOUL: speaking of the Emmy's, what did u think of the whole Cosby remark to Wanda Sykes? Clue me in - I missed that one. I've never been a Cosby fan anyhow.

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by fred:
What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes? She said something about comedians 'back then and now' (I cant remember exactly), and Cosby said 'Back then, we spoke English'.

[The Donger]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
I think she should start a gang instead. Hahahahahahaha!

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes? She said something about comedians 'back then and now' (I cant remember exactly), and Cosby said 'Back then, we spoke English'. </font>[/QUOTE]Ahhh...Cosby is a hand-picked negro "leader". What - they spoke English on Fat Albert? Chump.

[Andriuh]

So far from what i asses we have no idea what the main point of this club is. All we know is it's going to be for caucasions only. I see some people jumping the gun....mebe automatically assuming these people must be rascist. BUt if it a club for the caucasions in that school(i am assuming a small minority) to get together then i'm all for it. At my school we had all sorts of different ethnic based clubs, one for asians, the NAACP, hispanic pride, the islamic student association, and the lists go on and on and on.


Just my 2 cents.

[Andriuh]

TYhen again some of you do have a point with the club ONLY being for caucasions... either way i'd need to hear her platform before pre judging the whole thing.

blah.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Andriuh:
So far from what i asses we have no idea what the main point of this club is. All we know is it's going to be for caucasions only. I see some people jumping the gun....mebe automatically assuming these people must be rascist. BUt if it a club for the caucasions in that school(i am assuming a small minority) to get together then i'm all for it. At my school we had all sorts of different ethnic based clubs, one for asians, the NAACP, hispanic pride, the islamic student association, and the lists go on and on and on.


Just my 2 cents. "Caucausian" is a disengenous delineation. There is no such thing. This kid is ignorant, spiteful and obviously communicating what the adults around her are asking.

[Shalewa]

In the report that I heard on NPR I got the sense that WHite student's are by no means an underrepresented group in the school and I think they even said the school is predominantly White. I was founding president of my school's Minority Student Club and all of us, Black,Latina and Asian together were approximately 8% of the school population. We were mainly interested in advocating for a more diverse faculty (1 Asian teacher and a couple of Black guys on the cafeteria staff), addressing the overt bigotry of one teacher in particular and several auxiliary organizations (one ballroom dancing school had been allowed to openly use the school's lists to invite all the White girls who were neither Catholic or Jewish to it's afterschool etiquette class for years and years). Later we did we start an informal Big Sister program to help new students adjust to being flies in the buttermilk and I was allowed to direct the Diversity assembly (I was also an officer in the Drama Club). It wasn't mainly about fitting in, but about being acknowledged in an environment that was trying to be color blind.

I wonder why having a Caucasian club (NPR desribed the girl as having a mixed Western European and Native American BTW) speaks of fitting in to this girl? That is truly curious to me. Given that Whiteness is still considered the default designation for most things American, I keep wondering what has this girl feeling assailed in that particular sector of her identity? Is it the result of a backlash against the whole, "Everything but the burden" notion, that posits that much of what it means to be "in" these days involves the affectation of an edgy, urban, Black persona? Or is it something much more sinister?

graemlins/conf44.gif

[fred da warrior]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes? She said something about comedians 'back then and now' (I cant remember exactly), and Cosby said 'Back then, we spoke English'. </font>[/QUOTE]Ahhh...Cosby is a hand-picked negro "leader". What - they spoke English on Fat Albert? Chump. </font>[/QUOTE]You beat me to it, yo.

[Andriuh]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andriuh:
So far from what i asses we have no idea what the main point of this club is. All we know is it's going to be for caucasions only. I see some people jumping the gun....mebe automatically assuming these people must be rascist. BUt if it a club for the caucasions in that school(i am assuming a small minority) to get together then i'm all for it. At my school we had all sorts of different ethnic based clubs, one for asians, the NAACP, hispanic pride, the islamic student association, and the lists go on and on and on.


Just my 2 cents. "Caucausian" is a disengenous delineation. There is no such thing. This kid is ignorant, spiteful and obviously communicating what the adults around her are asking. </font>[/QUOTE]Gotcha....and no implied sarcasm there either.

[HML]

The bottom line is that a "Caucasian" club would be a very bad idea. The premise alone excludes certain people from joining. I agree that we all should have the right to experience our own culture. But let's not be naive! How many exclusively "White" or "Caucasian" clubs, organizations, etc, do we know of that don't have a racist agenda?!? :(

-HML

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes? She said something about comedians 'back then and now' (I cant remember exactly), and Cosby said 'Back then, we spoke English'. </font>[/QUOTE]Ahhh...Cosby is a hand-picked negro "leader". What - they spoke English on Fat Albert? Chump. </font>[/QUOTE]I kind of dug that detective show he had on in the 90's.

Personally, any clubs that are not relevant to academics should be eliminated from all schools.

Although, schools as institutions can play a role in socializing individuals I don’t think it is necessary for schools to have clubs beyond academic interests.

I am a firm believer in the old ‘schools are for reading writing and arithmetic’. Beyond that, everything else is fluff and yes that includes black or Latino culture clubs (for the mere sake of just being around people like you).

[ September 22, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Jamie Lennox ]

[Shalewa]

The proposed club would like other clubs at the school be open to the entire student body.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes? She said something about comedians 'back then and now' (I cant remember exactly), and Cosby said 'Back then, we spoke English'. </font>[/QUOTE]Ahhh...Cosby is a hand-picked negro "leader". What - they spoke English on Fat Albert? Chump. </font>[/QUOTE]I kind of dug that detective show he had on in the 90's.

Personally, any clubs that are not relevant to academics should be eliminated from all schools.

Although, schools as institutions can play a role in socializing individuals I don’t think it is necessary for schools to have clubs beyond academic interests.

I am a firm believer in the old ‘schools are for reading writing and arithmetic’. Beyond that, everything else is fluff and yes that includes black or Latino culture clubs. </font>[/QUOTE]Mainstream society already has enough reinforcement for their ethics and values. How else would a black or latino child be exposed to a balanced cultural influence?

For me, being in Afro-Club led to a greater appreciation of academia. This is because the environment taught me the value of intellectual pursuits as it related to the reality of being black in America. In fact, all of the clubs I belonged to (two) had an academic focus. Participation was contingent on grades and mentoring was established that reflected back to my classwork.

[Brut by Faberge]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andriuh:
So far from what i asses we have no idea what the main point of this club is. All we know is it's going to be for caucasions only. I see some people jumping the gun....mebe automatically assuming these people must be rascist. BUt if it a club for the caucasions in that school(i am assuming a small minority) to get together then i'm all for it. At my school we had all sorts of different ethnic based clubs, one for asians, the NAACP, hispanic pride, the islamic student association, and the lists go on and on and on.


Just my 2 cents. "Caucausian" is a disengenous delineation. There is no such thing. This kid is ignorant, spiteful and obviously communicating what the adults around her are asking. </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly. What the fvck will they discuss?! The culture and languages of the great Caucus Mountains? Goat herding? Onion farming? How brilliant that this child chose a mythical "race" to base the mission of an entire social club. Maybe they can start an oompah-loompah club too!

God this just smacks of the skinhead assertion that white people are loosing political/economical ground and that they need to "protect their race." Thirty years past the civil rights movement and this is what we're back to? icon_rofl.gif

Thanks, Shalewa for clearing some things up, too.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes? She said something about comedians 'back then and now' (I cant remember exactly), and Cosby said 'Back then, we spoke English'. </font>[/QUOTE]Ahhh...Cosby is a hand-picked negro "leader". What - they spoke English on Fat Albert? Chump. </font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't be quick to judge Bill, He has crossed many barriers in order to do well for himself. I agree with him, we did care more for our demeanor back in the day more than we do now. We have moved from teaching our children to being okay imitate rappers, pimps, hoes or hustlers. Our priorities have been rearranged. So yes, I understood what he was implying.

If the girl wants a club for people like her in an environment where her and a few others can fit in then I say go for it. Why be imtimidated by that? What kind of power could this have besides the fact that she would draw more attention to herself for attacks from other children?

[ September 22, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: DiscoLady ]

[kev]

From the San Francisco Chronicle...

Club for Caucasians stirs up Oakley
High school student surprised her idea turned into 'big deal'

Jose Antonio Vargas, Chronicle Staff Writer Saturday, September 20, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




When freshman Lisa McClelland first proposed a Caucasian Club at Freedom High School in Oakley, she had no inkling of the stir she would cause in the quiet little town on the eastern fringe of Contra Costa County.

Three weeks after she began circulating a petition, signed on sheets of binder paper by classmates and town residents, Lisa's campaign has drawn national media attention that has led to a mixed community reaction. Some critics seem more focused on the name than on the activities of the club.

"This wasn't supposed to be a big deal," the 15-year-old said the other day.

To Lisa, the logic is simple: If there is a Black Student Union for African Americans, a Latinos Unidos for Latin Americans and an ALOHA Club for Asian Americans, then why can't there be a Caucasian Club at her school?

The Caucasian Club, as she envisions it, would be a place where students could talk about racial dynamics and how one's ethnic background -- hers being a mix of Scottish, German, American Indian, Latino and Irish -- affects people today, how her "whiteness," as she and others like her perceive it, affects those who aren't white.

The racial injustices and prejudices of the past, she said, "belong in the past."

But to some parents and students, a club with such a name is too divisive. They say it will do nothing more than reopen old wounds and perhaps create new ones.

Oakley is an predominantly white area already on alert. In 2001, someone fashioned a hangman's noose from a shoelace and left it hanging on the office doorknob of Jesse Gossett, an African American staff member and basketball coach at Freedom High. Last year, at nearby Liberty High School in Brentwood, someone left a noose hanging from a redwood tree on campus.


NAACP 'VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED'
The East County chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has already weighed in, saying it is "vehemently opposed" to the name of the club.

"It's not culturally sensitive to the community we're addressing, especially in light of what had happened there before," said Darnell Turner, the chapter's vice president. "The club, in name, seems like a backdoor approach to separation. From a historical perspective, this will bring up fears."

The possibility of a Caucasian Club -- with a tentative membership of 20 people, most of them Lisa's friends -- was the talk of the campus this week, eclipsing discussion of Friday's homecoming football game against San Ramon Valley High School or this weekend's community Almond Festival.

Phones at her school and at her home have been ringing off the hook. CNN called Lisa at 6 a.m. Thursday; Fox News called the night before. The local newspapers have written it up.

"It's overwhelming," Lisa's mother, Debi Neely, said as she stood in the kitchen of her Oakley home. Neely said she heard her daughter's name and the proposed club mentioned on several radio stations as she drove to work on Thursday.

She expressed pride in her daughter. "If it takes one 15-year-old to make a point, to say that just because you're using the word 'Caucasian' doesn't mean you're being racist, then so be it."


DIDN'T FIT IN OTHER GROUPS
Lisa, according to her mother, grew up embracing diversity, but she came home from the start of school upset that she didn't fit in the Black Student Union, Latinos Unidos or the ALOHA Club. There was the Power of Unity Club, an umbrella group that oversees all the school's cultural groups, but Lisa didn't want to join that, either. The only club Lisa signed up for, Neely said, was the Gay-Straight Alliance.

It was about three weeks ago that Lisa took the initiative.

Other students at Freedom High had previously tried to start a Caucasian Club but were told they couldn't, Lisa said. So, in anticipation of "some opposition," she began circulating a petition to get support before approaching school Principal Eric Valto, who has final approval on campus clubs.

About 300 students and adults have signed her petition; not all of them, Lisa was quick to note, are white.

And, as local newspapers and broadcast media picked up the story, the reaction has been more positive than negative, Lisa and her mother said. Some people, Lisa said, have suggested changing the name to avoid controversy.

"To some, having a Caucasian Club makes sense," one parent said on Thursday.

"I mean, why not? But couldn't she call it a White Heritage Club? That sounds more politically correct." One of many postings at Freedom High's Web site suggested calling it the "Euro-American Student Union."


WILL STICK WITH THE NAME
But Lisa, who said she cares little about census demographics or the historical perspective of the NAACP's Turner, plans to stick with the name.

The club will take trips to museums.

Members will discuss history.

Everyone will be welcome.

Larischa Dorton, 16, and Kelly Andrews, 14, members of Freedom High's Black Student Union, heard about Lisa from BET (Black Entertainment Television) Wednesday night and see nothing wrong with her idea.

If there is a black club, then there should be white club, said Dorton, a junior, who said she's in the Art Club, the Leadership Club and the Gay- Straight Alliance.

"It's not this serious," added Andrews, a freshman. "It's either we all have our clubs, or we have no clubs at all."

Some Freedom High students weren't so supportive.

"This is so dumb," said senior David Borges, who called the whole situation "embarrassing."


'A LOT OF DRAMA'
"It's just gonna start a lot of drama -- a lot of unnecessary drama," said Borges, 16, who is Portuguese and Italian and calls himself white. He is a member of the ALOHA Club; since he's had Asian neighbors all his life, he said he sees nothing wrong with joining the group.

"What is white culture? What are we proud of?" asked senior Clint Simons, 17, who said not many people would want to join a Caucasian Club. "What will people do? Dance the electric slide?"

Both laughed.

Gossett, the 50-year-old coach who found a noose hanging on his office door,

said he sympathizes with Lisa. "She's a freshman. This is a new environment for her, and every student here, every single one of them, wants to belong.

"This is not about race. This is about belonging," he said. Gossett showed pictures of the school's Black Student Union, its members from all races; at one point, he said, there were more white students in the club than there were black.

"To these kids, and perhaps to Lisa, race is not that big of a deal," Gossett said, adding he was the first to integrate Camden Fairview High School in his native Arkansas in 1967. "It's a bigger deal for us adults, who have experienced more, who have seen more."

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fred:
What happened with Bill Cosby/ Wanda Sykes? She said something about comedians 'back then and now' (I cant remember exactly), and Cosby said 'Back then, we spoke English'. </font>[/QUOTE]Ahhh...Cosby is a hand-picked negro "leader". What - they spoke English on Fat Albert? Chump. </font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't be quick to judge Bill, He has crossed many barriers in order to do well for himself. I agree with him, we did care more for our demeanor back in the day more than we do now. </font>[/QUOTE]Crossed barriers to do well "for himself" is the operative issue here. Cosby isn't a member of the mainstream establishment and he has never attempted to assert himself in the black establishment or minority establishment. He waited until he was conspiciously absent from the civil rights movement before he stepped in.

Wanda Sykes creates opportunities for other minorities in the business, even reaching back to bring those who found themselves on the outs another chance. She's doing something - not posturing, like Cosby.

You get no merit badges from me for crossing barriers. We all have to do it - even non-minorities.

[ivanjb]

I remember in High School when a white skinhead joined the Imani club. He was ticked off that there were no clubs for whites. They let him in the club and he showed up to meetings, made some friends and that was that.

[Wild i]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Crossed barriers to do well "for himself" is the operative issue here. Cosby isn't a member of the mainstream establishment and he has never attempted to assert himself in the black establishment or minority establishment. He waited until he was conspiciously absent from the civil rights movement before he stepped in.

Wanda Sykes creates opportunities for other minorities in the business, even reaching back to bring those who found themselves on the outs another chance. She's doing something - not posturing, like Cosby.

You get no merit badges from me for crossing barriers. We all have to do it - even non-minorities. If you believe this, you really don't know much about Bill Cosby at all.

[Wild i]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Crossed barriers to do well "for himself" is the operative issue here. Cosby isn't a member of the mainstream establishment and he has never attempted to assert himself in the black establishment or minority establishment. He waited until he was conspiciously absent from the civil rights movement before he stepped in.

Wanda Sykes creates opportunities for other minorities in the business, even reaching back to bring those who found themselves on the outs another chance. She's doing something - not posturing, like Cosby.

You get no merit badges from me for crossing barriers. We all have to do it - even non-minorities. If you believe this, you really don't know much about Bill Cosby at all. </font>[/QUOTE]No disrespect to you Bold, but I sure do grow weary of folks being knocked around as "Toms" or "sell-outs" just because they have some money and advise others not to play their music so loud, so to speak. You'd have to show me some hard and fast examples of why you don't respect Cosby. He is a man of many black "firsts," including the first black in a starring TV role "I Spy." He has sponsored and participated in many fund raisers, programs, events, etc.

I am curious. What, exactly, is your objection to Bill?

[JMJ]

Originally posted by THX-1138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andriuh:
So far from what i asses we have no idea what the main point of this club is. All we know is it's going to be for caucasions only. I see some people jumping the gun....mebe automatically assuming these people must be rascist. BUt if it a club for the caucasions in that school(i am assuming a small minority) to get together then i'm all for it. At my school we had all sorts of different ethnic based clubs, one for asians, the NAACP, hispanic pride, the islamic student association, and the lists go on and on and on.


Just my 2 cents. "Caucausian" is a disengenous delineation. There is no such thing. This kid is ignorant, spiteful and obviously communicating what the adults around her are asking. </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly. What the fvck will they discuss?! The culture and languages of the great Caucus Mountains? Goat herding? Onion farming? How brilliant that this child chose a mythical "race" to base the mission of an entire social club. Maybe they can start an oompah-loompah club too!

God this just smacks of the skinhead assertion that white people are loosing political/economical ground and that they need to "protect their race." Thirty years past the civil rights movement and this is what we're back to? icon_rofl.gif

Thanks, Shalewa for clearing some things up, too. </font>[/QUOTE]The secrets of good goat herding and onion farming need to be told. New wave farming sucks......JMJ ;)

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G Assuming that this is an all black school or other ethincities, what's the difference with this girl wanting to be in touch with her "Culture". We as Afican Americans, Latino, and other ethnicities do the same thing.


When the shoes on the other foot, we want to jump up and complain. Makes no sense to me these days. </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo.......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo? What are you implying? </font>[/QUOTE]Exclusivity on any level SUCKS, and for this girl to want to form a caucasion club is no better or worse than any other ethnic or racial group that starts a club or organization that encourages exclusivity. Is she wrong if she forms the club and offers membership to everyone, regardless of race or ethnicity?? I think not. Until we know the purpose or mission of the club, it's really unfair to pass judgement.....JMJ

[lyot]

I think it's a totally stupid idea to form a club of whitees in school..(or any other club based on race or colour)...If that's the common denominator, I think that's a pretty poor choice of belonging..But, on the other hand, let just everyone do whatever they want.. If she feels comfortable like that and this club does not propagate racist ideas or whatever, what's the big deal then ? More and more, I reckon it must be tiresome to live in a politically correct country like the US..

peace

[KragShot]

Originally posted by eric justin:
This is just plain bad. "Caucasian" is not a place, it's a color. If these kids want to do somthing positive, they should research there roots beyond the American border. I see nothing wrong with exploring your English, Irish, German ect.. roots, but starting a club by lumping that all togather and calling it simply a "caucasian" club can't be good.
my two cents :D Exactly.

A school's African American studies club or a junior chapter of the NAACP serves a purpose, just like the "La Raza Unida" organizations.

They create a sense of ethnic unity and a source of cultural education.

I attended a high school (one year) that had not just the African American and Latin American clubs, but had an Italian-American youth club, an Irish American interest group and a Polish-American Pride club. (We also had a Tong, a Posse, a "cartel" and a so-called Junior Mafia at the school, but that's another story.)

The thing here is caucasian is a designation used by scientists to differentiate between genetic groups separated by geographical factors.
It's not an interest group.

By the way, several colleges and universities have African American Studies clubs. Those are open to anyone who wishes to study African American history or sociological issues.

There are men who have degrees in Women's Studies.

Taking things one step further, perhaps there might be a place for a formal field of study for European American issues and how they relate to the rest of America and the world.

Personally, I think that the girl's heart is probably in the right place, but she's slightly off plumb. I don't think that she's really doing anything wrong. She's just searching for a sense of pride and nobody should be condemned for that.

And I understand JMJ's concern and just for the record, I'm all for Amish Pride and I'll ride in his buggy with him at their next parade.

KragShot

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G Assuming that this is an all black school or other ethincities, what's the difference with this girl wanting to be in touch with her "Culture". We as Afican Americans, Latino, and other ethnicities do the same thing.


When the shoes on the other foot, we want to jump up and complain. Makes no sense to me these days. </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo.......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo? What are you implying? </font>[/QUOTE]Exclusivity on any level SUCKS, and for this girl to want to form a caucasion club is no better or worse than any other ethnic or racial group that starts a club or organization that encourages exclusivity. Is she wrong if she forms the club and offers membership to everyone, regardless of race or ethnicity?? I think not. Until we know the purpose or mission of the club, it's really unfair to pass judgement.....JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]And again I ask, where are children to receive positive cultural reinforcement if not in school? Don't say "in the home" because we all know that's not happening.

[JMJ]

Originally posted by KragShot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eric justin:
This is just plain bad. "Caucasian" is not a place, it's a color. If these kids want to do somthing positive, they should research there roots beyond the American border. I see nothing wrong with exploring your English, Irish, German ect.. roots, but starting a club by lumping that all togather and calling it simply a "caucasian" club can't be good.
my two cents :D Exactly.

A school's African American studies club or a junior chapter of the NAACP serves a purpose, just like the "La Raza Unida" organizations.

They create a sense of ethnic unity and a source of cultural education.

I attended a high school (one year) that had not just the African American and Latin American clubs, but had an Italian-American youth club, an Irish American interest group and a Polish-American Pride club. (We also had a Tong, a Posse, a "cartel" and a so-called Junior Mafia at the school, but that's another story.)

The thing here is caucasian is a designation used by scientists to differentiate between genetic groups separated by geographical factors.
It's not an interest group.

By the way, several colleges and universities have African American Studies clubs. Those are open to anyone who wishes to study African American history or sociological issues.

There are men who have degrees in Women's Studies.

Taking things one step further, perhaps there might be a place for a formal field of study for European American issues and how they relate to the rest of America and the world.

Personally, I think that the girl's heart is probably in the right place, but she's slightly off plumb. I don't think that she's really doing anything wrong. She's just searching for a sense of pride and nobody should be condemned for that.

And I understand JMJ's concern and just for the record, I'm all for Amish Pride and I'll ride in his buggy with him at their next parade.

KragShot </font>[/QUOTE]I'm glad you've decided to ride in the buggy with me. This is a step in the right direction. Could you bring some Budweiser with you?? The horses get really thirsty......JMJ biggrinangel.gif

[ChiJAM]

And again I ask, where are children to receive positive cultural reinforcement if not in school? Don't say "in the home" because we all know that's not happening.
You're saying that "positive cultural reinforcement" does not happen at home, so we should look to schools to provide such?

ChiJAM

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
And again I ask, where are children to receive positive cultural reinforcement if not in school? Don't say "in the home" because we all know that's not happening. Well believe it or not, there are some homes out there that are fit to teach culture and history. School doesn't have to end at 3:00 p.m.

So watching rappers with horrible vocabulary, comedians with again, horrible vocabulary, TV shows inwhich the dialogue contains, again, bad vocabulary is not a cause of concern to many of us?

Listening to teachers that have poor vocabulary skills teach children that already have poor vocabulary skills, then go go home to parents with bad vocabulary skills, how are these children supposed to succeed in the real world when they are programmed to think that "Proper English" is the "White Man's Language"?

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by ChiJAM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And again I ask, where are children to receive positive cultural reinforcement if not in school? Don't say "in the home" because we all know that's not happening.
You're saying that "positive cultural reinforcement" does not happen at home, so we should look to schools to provide such?

ChiJAM </font>[/QUOTE]Yes. Parents are not present due to work constraints or otherwise and children are in school for the bulk of their day. If it is going to happen, it should happen there.

[mhd]

Originally posted by ChiJAM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And again I ask, where are children to receive positive cultural reinforcement if not in school? Don't say "in the home" because we all know that's not happening.
You're saying that "positive cultural reinforcement" does not happen at home, so we should look to schools to provide such?

ChiJAM </font>[/QUOTE]absolutely

[JMJ]

Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bold Soul:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G Assuming that this is an all black school or other ethincities, what's the difference with this girl wanting to be in touch with her "Culture". We as Afican Americans, Latino, and other ethnicities do the same thing.


When the shoes on the other foot, we want to jump up and complain. Makes no sense to me these days. </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo.......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo? What are you implying? </font>[/QUOTE]Exclusivity on any level SUCKS, and for this girl to want to form a caucasion club is no better or worse than any other ethnic or racial group that starts a club or organization that encourages exclusivity. Is she wrong if she forms the club and offers membership to everyone, regardless of race or ethnicity?? I think not. Until we know the purpose or mission of the club, it's really unfair to pass judgement.....JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]And again I ask, where are children to receive positive cultural reinforcement if not in school? Don't say "in the home" because we all know that's not happening. </font>[/QUOTE]As long as membership to these clubs are TRULY open to ALL students, I have no problem. Nothing wrong with providing positive cultural enforcement either, as long as it's provided objectively.......JMJ

[mhd]

no such thing as objectivity in this country

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by mhd:
no such thing as objectivity in this country Everyone has to have their own.

[martino]

I'd love to sit and listen in at one of their meetings for a laugh:

"um like, I'm white? and like, I'm proud of who i am, so like, i'm proud to be white right?! so like, why is that so bad? Anyways, like its not that i don't know anything about the word caucasian, but like, lets learn more okay? So, you know? Like lets start with how we slaughtered the natives okay? okay, you first!"

biggrinangel.gif

[Insert pseudonym here]

Originally posted by KragShot:


The thing here is caucasian is a designation used by scientists to differentiate between genetic groups separated by geographical factors.
It's not an interest group.

By the way, several colleges and universities have African American Studies clubs. Those are open to anyone who wishes to study African American history or sociological issues.

There are men who have degrees in Women's Studies.

Taking things one step further, perhaps there might be a place for a formal field of study for European American issues and how they relate to the rest of America and the world.

Personally, I think that the girl's heart is probably in the right place, but she's slightly off plumb. I don't think that she's really doing anything wrong. She's just searching for a sense of pride and nobody should be condemned for that. I'm with KragShot on this one. She just went about it the wrong way... she should've weighed the pro(s) and con(s) first of the name itself, then actually made it a club based on a similiar interest not race.

This will be a lesson she will never forget.

[ChiJAM]

Yes. Parents are not present due to work constraints or otherwise and children are in school for the bulk of their day. If it is going to happen, it should happen there.
That's a tough call...I see your point on kids spending the bulk of their day at school. In a perfect world, positive cultural reinforcement would occur primarily at school. However, I would not want today's public school (or any school, actually) "teaching" my child the bulk of the positive cultural reinforcement that he/she is absorbing on a daily basis. I would hope that home life, experiences and exposure to books, people, places, etc. that aren't available at public schools would form the basis of my child's positive cultural reinforcement. I have a growing problem with people relying on these public servants (teachers) to teach their kids certain things. If you're a working parent, you will be pressed for time. However, you have to strive to take a role that is at least comparable to that occupied by your child's school environment. I don't kid myself into thinking that a kid's school environment won't have a huge impact on the development, viewpoints, etc. of the child, but as a parent, simply taking a backseat to that without comparable effort of your own, is unacceptable.

ChiJAM

[jimmymack-2000]

A big part of the problem in Canada--and probably the U.S. too--is parents expecting schools to do everything, abrogating any responsibility they themselves have to raise their kids properly...

[mhd]

Originally posted by martino:
I'd love to sit and listen in at one of their meetings for a laugh:

"um like, I'm white? and like, I'm proud of who i am, so like, i'm proud to be white right?! so like, why is that so bad? Anyways, like its not that i don't know anything about the word caucasian, but like, lets learn more okay? So, you know? Like lets start with how we slaughtered the natives okay? okay, you first!"

biggrinangel.gif what natives did we slaughter? all of them. where? everywhere

[rob brito]

Originally posted by martino:
I'd love to sit and listen in at one of their meetings for a laugh:

"um like, I'm white? and like, I'm proud of who i am, so like, i'm proud to be white right?! so like, why is that so bad? Anyways, like its not that i don't know anything about the word caucasian, but like, lets learn more okay? So, you know? Like lets start with how we slaughtered the natives okay? okay, you first!"

biggrinangel.gif so what's the difference between white kids that congregate and black kids strictly for the sake of pigment grouping?

what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

but i guess there is still room for "african- american" studies....you know, skin's all that matters.

[mhd]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martino:
I'd love to sit and listen in at one of their meetings for a laugh:

"um like, I'm white? and like, I'm proud of who i am, so like, i'm proud to be white right?! so like, why is that so bad? Anyways, like its not that i don't know anything about the word caucasian, but like, lets learn more okay? So, you know? Like lets start with how we slaughtered the natives okay? okay, you first!"

biggrinangel.gif so what's the difference between white kids that congregate and black kids strictly for the sake of pigment grouping?

what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

but i guess there is still room for "african- american" studies....you know, skin's all that matters. </font>[/QUOTE]fela has everything to do with master p, you should really study that connection, maybe an afro-studies class or two.

[rob brito]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martino:
I'd love to sit and listen in at one of their meetings for a laugh:

"um like, I'm white? and like, I'm proud of who i am, so like, i'm proud to be white right?! so like, why is that so bad? Anyways, like its not that i don't know anything about the word caucasian, but like, lets learn more okay? So, you know? Like lets start with how we slaughtered the natives okay? okay, you first!"

biggrinangel.gif so what's the difference between white kids that congregate and black kids strictly for the sake of pigment grouping?

what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

but i guess there is still room for "african- american" studies....you know, skin's all that matters. </font>[/QUOTE]fela has everything to do with master p, you should really study that connection, maybe an afro-studies class or two. </font>[/QUOTE]right down to their priorities as shown in their music, right?

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by robs:
so what's the difference between white kids that congregate and black kids strictly for the sake of pigment grouping?

what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

but i guess there is still room for "african- american" studies....you know, skin's all that matters. AMEN!!

[JMJ]

I predict 11 pages and a couple bannings coming out of this one......JMJ ;)

[mhd]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martino:
I'd love to sit and listen in at one of their meetings for a laugh:

"um like, I'm white? and like, I'm proud of who i am, so like, i'm proud to be white right?! so like, why is that so bad? Anyways, like its not that i don't know anything about the word caucasian, but like, lets learn more okay? So, you know? Like lets start with how we slaughtered the natives okay? okay, you first!"

biggrinangel.gif so what's the difference between white kids that congregate and black kids strictly for the sake of pigment grouping?

what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

but i guess there is still room for "african- american" studies....you know, skin's all that matters. </font>[/QUOTE]fela has everything to do with master p, you should really study that connection, maybe an afro-studies class or two. </font>[/QUOTE]right down to their priorities as shown in their music, right? </font>[/QUOTE]exactly, absolutely

[martino]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martino:
I'd love to sit and listen in at one of their meetings for a laugh:

"um like, I'm white? and like, I'm proud of who i am, so like, i'm proud to be white right?! so like, why is that so bad? Anyways, like its not that i don't know anything about the word caucasian, but like, lets learn more okay? So, you know? Like lets start with how we slaughtered the natives okay? okay, you first!"

biggrinangel.gif what natives did we slaughter? all of them. where? everywhere </font>[/QUOTE]tee hee, i wonder if that would be the direction of the conversations? but seriously, before this goes further, i'll admit that was sort of in bad taste on my part. i was just trying to spoof a conversation where "caucasian" teens are talking about the history of the caucasian - Lightly addressing the blood on the hands of their imperial ancestors. Because, well, you know that ain't gonna happen.

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by mhd:
what natives did we slaughter? all of them. where? everywhere "Buffalo soldier, in the heart of America..." (http://www.buffalosoldier.net/)

[mhd]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
what natives did we slaughter? all of them. where? everywhere "Buffalo soldier, in the heart of America..." (http://www.buffalosoldier.net/) </font>[/QUOTE]does that make you feel better?

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
A big part of the problem in Canada--and probably the U.S. too--is parents expecting schools to do everything, abrogating any responsibility they themselves have to raise their kids properly... Yes and for some politicians and for some states, that is exactly what they want schools to do.

Personally, I think the most important thing a primary education is saposta do is teach kids how to be able to think critically and for themselves.

If there is any culture that any school should promote it should be an intellectual culture celebrating the best of the humanities.

Beyond that.....I dont know.

But it seems that those two things are what schools dont do.

[Bold Soul]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
[qb] If there is any culture that any school should promote it should be an intellectual culture celebrating the best of the humanities.I wholeheartedly agree.

[ChiJAM]

Personally, I think the most important thing a primary education is saposta do is teach kids how to be able to think critically and for themselves.
Me, too. This applies to parents, too. I can't think of a more critical lesson for today's kids.

ChiJAM

[martino]

Strange how there's a prominant toronto contingent in this thread. toronto is much more multicultural than the average city in the world and i still dont think a caucasian club is relevant here or anywhere in north america. For one thing there is no homogeneous caucasian culture. i think someone said it ealier: its one thing to have a scottish club, a german glub etc (where kids can learn some of the history of their background). Its another thing to have a white club. One is about learning cultural history. the other, i'm not too sure. There's no singular cultural history to any skin colour. Plus, is there really a need to re-inforce being white in our society? Look at all the institutions if you need an answer.

My highschool had the "Nubian Club" that discussed african history/culture, but it didnt have a "black club". Again, there is a difference.

[ September 22, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: martino ]

[TAD]

Originally posted by jimmymack-2000:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
what natives did we slaughter? all of them. where? everywhere "Buffalo soldier, in the heart of America..." (http://www.buffalosoldier.net/) </font>[/QUOTE]Slaves and the black soldiers, who couldn't read or write, had no idea of the historical deprivations and the frequent genocidal intent of the U.S. government toward Native Americans. Free blacks, whether they could read and write, generally had no access to first hand or second-hand unbiased information on this relationship. Most whites who had access often didn't really care about the situation. It was business as usual in the name of "Manifest Destiny".

Black soldiers ............They wanted to gain the respect and equality they never saw as slaves and rarely received as freedmen. So, they continued on as soldiers. They were sadly mistaken in thinking they would gain these components of freedom, in a country built in-part by their enslavement and which still held deep racial and cultural prejudices.

At the end of the Civil War, 186,000 black soldiers had participated in the war, with 38,000 killed in action. Southerners and eastern populations did not want to see armed Negro soldiers near or in their communities. They were also afraid of the labor market being flooded with a new source of labor. General employment opportunities in these communities was not available to blacks, so many African-Americans took a long hard look at military service which offered shelter, education, steady pay, medical attention and a pension. Some decided it was much better than frequent civilian unemployment. Of course in some quarters, it was thought this is an good way of getting rid of two problems at the same time.

[nev m]

The kids idea behind the club seems harmless. But the name sucks.

Given that she wants her "club" to be open to all ethnic groups why call it "White Club" when racism can be defined as a system of advantage for white people.

Im pretty sure if I were a black kid I'd feel alienated by that name. As a white kid I wouldn't want to join either.

[jpsf]

hasn't there already been enough "whites only" clubs in the US? do we really need more? face it, this isn't about learning the roots and history of being white because white culture is what dominates the history books in schools anyway.

[The Buddy Love Show]

[ September 22, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: St Magus the Reviled ]

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by St Magus the Reviled:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JMJ:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
I was watching the news this morning and they had a story of a 15 year old white girl who says she doesn't quite fit in at her high school (Freedom High) and wants to start a "caucasian" club. I guess I do automatically associate negativity with a club like this. Whats your thoughts. The NAACP says its a terrible idea...

-G Assuming that this is an all black school or other ethincities, what's the difference with this girl wanting to be in touch with her "Culture". We as Afican Americans, Latino, and other ethnicities do the same thing.


When the shoes on the other foot, we want to jump up and complain. Makes no sense to me these days. </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo.......JMJ </font>[/QUOTE]i second the bingo

many schools have the black and latino club, the african students league, the hispanic club...etc....it works both ways

to equate it with the KKK is simplistic ...especially if they arent preaching hate....anyways these societies already exist, koc, hellenic club, emerald society

we need more specifics as to the case to make a real judgeent</font>[/QUOTE]

[D J 1 3 8]

For the record, it's a predominantly white school.

[julian_kelly]

...struggle...overcoming racism...succeeding against the odds


Originally posted by robs:
[QUOTE][qb]
what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

[dj c-los]

Let me lay it real.
No BS.
....nm

[ September 22, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: clos7 ]

[rob brito]

Originally posted by robs:
what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
...struggle...overcoming racism...succeeding against the odds
for different reasons is my point, they both "made it" but had/have very different things to say which goes back to some common thread that's supposed to tie both these guys together.

maybe it's just me who's missing the element of revolution and fight in master p's music.... graemlins/conf44.gif

and in case the point i've tried to make is being missed, i'm trying to say the skin colour in every pigment is not reason to relate...character is.

[ September 23, 2003, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: robs ]

[mhd]

Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
...struggle...overcoming racism...succeeding against the odds
for different reasons is my point, they both "made it" but had/have very different things to say which goes back to some common thread that's supposed to tie both these guys together.

maybe it's just me who's missing the element of revolution and fight in master p's music.... graemlins/conf44.gif

and in case the point i've tried to make is being missed, i'm trying to say the skin colour in every pigment is not reason to relate...character is. </font>[/QUOTE]definitely respect that point, but you asked what they have in common. ngeso once said that color was incidental, imo the diaspora makes color universal and julian lists the qualities we all use to overcome our obstacles

[rob brito]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

Originally posted by julian_kelly:
...struggle...overcoming racism...succeeding against the odds
for different reasons is my point, they both "made it" but had/have very different things to say which goes back to some common thread that's supposed to tie both these guys together.

maybe it's just me who's missing the element of revolution and fight in master p's music.... graemlins/conf44.gif

and in case the point i've tried to make is being missed, i'm trying to say the skin colour in every pigment is not reason to relate...character is. </font>[/QUOTE]definitely respect that point, but you asked what they have in common. ngeso once said that color was incidental, imo the diaspora makes color universal and julian lists the qualities we all use to overcome our obstacles </font>[/QUOTE]we agree.

[The Buddy Love Show]

more thought has led me here:

i can't decry her right o form a "caucasian club" because i wouldn't want anybody denying my right to form or join the black panthers, 10th cavalry GC, or any "black" based and inspired organization. I think that if a person wants to associate with only their kind they have the right to do so. As long as this group does not infringe on the rights of others then its ok by me

btw...the most racially segregated "clubs" in america - CHURCHES!

[LOKEE]

Originally posted by robs:
so what's the difference between white kids that congregate and black kids strictly for the sake of pigment grouping?

what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

but i guess there is still room for "african- american" studies....you know, skin's all that matters. [/QB]the fundamental difference between a caucasian club and an African American club is that there is no caucasian culture.

African American culture was birthed from slavery and racism. Our country's minorities have become cultures over time due to the injustices forced upon them. These groups weren't by choice, rather they began out of necessity. And from these struggles, a beautiful culture flourished, and an identity was nurtured. new languages suckled on the breasts of both america and africa; music was born from the duality of a people whose hearts and minds lived on two continents; working conditions in both slavery and more modern times taught a special kind of struggle; and resiliency despite daunting odds became Black America's anthem. You have to understand that the importance of cultural clubs becomes even more evident when we look at America's racist lineage. a lineage that has long tried to rid them of any identity in the hopes of subjugating and rulling entire groups of people. Racism has been intitutionalized throughout this country for 200 some years, and make no mistake it's greatest allies are the greed of the rich, and the ignorance of the masses. in short, the Black American founded a culture from the materials presented to him. African American culture was born because the white slave owner wasn't smart enough to recognize culture has no skin color; it was born from hate and fostered in hope and strength.

on the other hand, lets look at caucasian "culture". Lets assume for a moment that there is a caucasian culture in America. And if there is one, lets look at the historically shared beliefs, and values caucasian culture posesses: hate, racism, slavery, and institutionalized privillage. these values, if we assume that a caucasian culture exist, speak to something inappropriate for any school system to support. By allowing a girl to start a caucasian club we are saying that a culture based on discrmination and hate is ok, and something to be celebrated. In turn, when we allow a caucasian club we effectively say that a society based on these same values is appropriate. on the other hand, if we agree that these values are not widely shared by white people, and that white culture is replaced by more specific cultures (i.e. french, spanish, english ect ect) we begin to realize that a caucasian club not only becomes an excersise in misunderstanding, but also an insult to every American who has worked hard to end years of discrmination and hate.

[dj c-los]

Blacks have NAACP
Hispanics have LULAC
This little girl wants a "caucasian club" and you think I'm gonna bitch?
Go do your club girl!
I'm not a hypocrite.

[jimmymack-2000]

Originally posted by LOKEE:
Lets assume for a moment that there is a caucasian culture in America. And if there is one, lets look at the historically shared beliefs, and values caucasian culture posesses: hate, racism, slavery, and institutionalized privillage.What is the difference between your statement above and any other statement that attributes a set of characteristics en masse to a racial group?

Here's a hint: some people say it ain't a number...

[D J 1 3 8]

as stupid as I think the idea is, what harm can it do?

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Elaborating on Magus's reply about Churches, has anyone heard of the Southern Baptist Church?

If you ask me, this is an example of Southern White Culture.

Peace

[dj c-los]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Elaborating on Magus's reply about Churches, has anyone heard of the Southern Baptist Church?

If you ask me, this is an example of Southern White Culture.

Peace There's a church down my street called "Iglesia del la Vida." Majority Mexican.
What's your point?

[Brut by Faberge]

Originally posted by clos7:
Blacks have NAACP
Hispanics have LULAC
This little girl wants a "caucasian club" and you think I'm gonna bitch?
Go do your club girl!
I'm not a hypocrite. I can understand that, too, as I am trying not to slip into hypocritical thinking on this.

The only thing is, the NAACP and LULAC are hardly social clubs formed out of a need for certain people to feel as if they "fit in" in a social climate in which, let's face it, many people NEVER "quite fit in." The teen years can be fvckin brutal no doubt. But the former are political groups founded on grassroots action, set in place to protect the institutionally subjugated and disenfranchised. I can't help it, I think this child's club is past irrational and could be a breeding site for a new one of THOSE groups we all know so well. I think steel pulse wrote a song about em... graemlins/stupid.gif

[dj c-los]

Originally posted by THX-1138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by clos7:
Blacks have NAACP
Hispanics have LULAC
This little girl wants a "caucasian club" and you think I'm gonna bitch?
Go do your club girl!
I'm not a hypocrite. I can understand that, too, as I am trying not to slip into hypocritical thinking on this.

The only thing is, the NAACP and LULAC are hardly social clubs formed out of a need for certain people to feel as if they "fit in" in a social climate in which, let's face it, many people NEVER "quite fit in." The teen years can be fvckin brutal no doubt. But the former are political groups founded on grassroots action, set in place to protect the institutionally subjugated and disenfranchised. I can't help it, I think this child's club is past irrational and could be a breeding site for a new one of THOSE groups we all know so well. I think steel pulse wrote a song about em... graemlins/stupid.gif </font>[/QUOTE]The girl said "everyone is invited and no one is excluded." I think many people posting here are not reading thew full story and just making a quick decision...and pulling out the race card because that usually seems easy. It's all good, we all have an opinion and I don't critcize anyone for having one.

[dj c-los]

...

[ September 23, 2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: clos7 ]

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by clos7:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Elaborating on Magus's reply about Churches, has anyone heard of the Southern Baptist Church?

If you ask me, this is an example of Southern White Culture.

Peace There's a church down my street called "Iglesia del la Vida." Majority Mexican.
What's your point? </font>[/QUOTE]My point is there's an ongoing discussion about what is "White" culture. If what I see everyday down here in the south is not an example of Southern White culture, as compared to to how Whites and others live up north, then I don't know what the hell to call it.

Peace

[D J 1 3 8]

White culture, like black culture, can mean different things to different people.

Maybe they'll sit around discussing "Friends" episodes or some shit. Larry Byrd? NASCAR? Hockey. I don't know.

Again, what's the harm in a bunch of idiots forming a club? My highschool was full of stupid clubs for social rejects. The Positive Mental Attitude club? WTF?

[kev]

Originally posted by clos7:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by THX-1138:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by clos7:
Blacks have NAACP
Hispanics have LULAC
This little girl wants a "caucasian club" and you think I'm gonna bitch?
Go do your club girl!
I'm not a hypocrite. I can understand that, too, as I am trying not to slip into hypocritical thinking on this.

The only thing is, the NAACP and LULAC are hardly social clubs formed out of a need for certain people to feel as if they "fit in" in a social climate in which, let's face it, many people NEVER "quite fit in." The teen years can be fvckin brutal no doubt. But the former are political groups founded on grassroots action, set in place to protect the institutionally subjugated and disenfranchised. I can't help it, I think this child's club is past irrational and could be a breeding site for a new one of THOSE groups we all know so well. I think steel pulse wrote a song about em... graemlins/stupid.gif </font>[/QUOTE]The girl said "everyone is invited and no one is excluded." I think many people posting here are not reading thew full story and just making a quick decision...and pulling out the race card because that usually seems easy. It's all good, we all have an opinion and I don't critcize anyone for having one. </font>[/QUOTE]She also was quoted as saying that racial injustices and prejudices of the past should "remain in the past". These things of the past are still going on today.

[Light Skinted Wif Good Hur]

Originally posted by ivanjb:
I could see a culture club being positive, but not a color or race club. Unless of course, the white kids are the major minorities and need some sort of support, friends etc.. But calling it the caucasian club is stupid. As opposed to say...a Black Student Union

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by LOKEE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robs:
so what's the difference between white kids that congregate and black kids strictly for the sake of pigment grouping?

what does a multi-millionaire black adult have in common with a third world ecuadorian black man of the same age struggling to eat his daily ration?

fela kuti has WHAT in common with master p?

but i guess there is still room for "african- american" studies....you know, skin's all that matters. the fundamental difference between a caucasian club and an African American club is that there is no caucasian culture.

African American culture was birthed from slavery and racism. Our country's minorities have become cultures over time due to the injustices forced upon them. These groups weren't by choice, rather they began out of necessity. And from these struggles, a beautiful culture flourished, and an identity was nurtured. new languages suckled on the breasts of both america and africa; music was born from the duality of a people whose hearts and minds lived on two continents; working conditions in both slavery and more modern times taught a special kind of struggle; and resiliency despite daunting odds became Black America's anthem. You have to understand that the importance of cultural clubs becomes even more evident when we look at America's racist lineage. a lineage that has long tried to rid them of any identity in the hopes of subjugating and rulling entire groups of people. Racism has been intitutionalized throughout this country for 200 some years, and make no mistake it's greatest allies are the greed of the rich, and the ignorance of the masses. in short, the Black American founded a culture from the materials presented to him. African American culture was born because the white slave owner wasn't smart enough to recognize culture has no skin color; it was born from hate and fostered in hope and strength.

on the other hand, lets look at caucasian "culture". Lets assume for a moment that there is a caucasian culture in America. And if there is one, lets look at the historically shared beliefs, and values caucasian culture posesses: hate, racism, slavery, and institutionalized privillage. these values, if we assume that a caucasian culture exist, speak to something inappropriate for any school system to support. By allowing a girl to start a caucasian club we are saying that a culture based on discrmination and hate is ok, and something to be celebrated. In turn, when we allow a caucasian club we effectively say that a society based on these same values is appropriate. on the other hand, if we agree that these values are not widely shared by white people, and that white culture is replaced by more specific cultures (i.e. french, spanish, english ect ect) we begin to realize that a caucasian club not only becomes an excersise in misunderstanding, but also an insult to every American who has worked hard to end years of discrmination and hate. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]you have brought tears of joy to the eyes of your compadres, Himmler and Goebbels, posthumously of course

and that opening statement...SHEER BRILLIANCE!

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by clos7:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Elaborating on Magus's reply about Churches, has anyone heard of the Southern Baptist Church?

If you ask me, this is an example of Southern White Culture.

Peace There's a church down my street called "Iglesia del la Vida." Majority Mexican.
What's your point? </font>[/QUOTE]let me take some off the fastball with this changeup

there are clubs of people who assemble every week here in these united states at places called churches...the really interesting thing about these clubs is that even though they pray to the same G-D and can even be of the same denomination, the members or "congregants" are usually one hundred percent homogeneous in terms of their ethnicities....there is no race mixing in church and it seems that peeps only wanna find there common truth amongst those of the same persuasion

CNN did an interesting peice on this phenomena 3 or 4 years ago entitled "The most segregated hour in America" (or something like that)

so lets all not get so "holier than thou" - pun intended

[The Buddy Love Show]

Originally posted by whyteout:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ivanjb:
I could see a culture club being positive, but not a color or race club. Unless of course, the white kids are the major minorities and need some sort of support, friends etc.. But calling it the caucasian club is stupid. As opposed to say...a Black Student Union </font>[/QUOTE]oooh...that'll leave a mark

[ngeso]

without speculating about what motivates this particular white person to pursue the idea of a caucasian club at her school, and whether this constitutes a case of racism or not, the subject does raise a lot of questions about perceptions of representation, as well as special interest groups and institutions tied to some form of minority agenda in the broadest sense.

it is my understanding, that perception-based agendas serve to achieve awareness, recognition, equality - fair representation. under the premise that the goals of such agendas can be met (i.e. that at some point fair representation would have been achieved, rendering a special interest obsolete), and provided they do not run against the law, i don't see why it should not be possible for (in this case) white people founding institutions that deal with their racial perception.

i agree that at first sight the idea of a "caucasion club" sounds unsavoury. on the other hand i have some difficulty ignoring a race-based agenda or prerequisite exclusivity (even if in name only) within some prominent institutions (e.g. "NAACP", "Historically Black College", "Black American Student Association") despite some voices saying that in such cases the race aspect is not paramount.

on a personal note i do not fear so much the institutionalization of racism through ventures such as this particular girl's caucasion club, as much as i wonder whether it isn't high time that maybe white people should actually go ahead and discuss white culture(s) in lieu of race in a manner comparable to how minorities focus on their cultures. white people should consciously talk about being white - in a positive sense.

peace. ngeso.

[ September 24, 2003, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: ngeso ]

[DEEPHOUSEHEAD]

Well I'm not sure of the meaning of caucasion.
Can anyone define ?

It seems as the Caucasion in this thread is being used to refer to (for lack of a better phrase)white skinned people.

In regards to lighter skinned people (or white people if you prefer),they trace their history to,for the most part,European countries,as far as I understand it.
European countries differ much in History,Language,Culture,and Mentality.
What a German may eat or drink,an Englishman may not,and vice versa.How a Greek thinks,differs from how a Spaniard does,and vice versa,etc,etc.

I guess a clear definition of Caucasion would help here.

Same applies to African countries,where darker skinned people (or black people if your prefer),trace their roots.
Ethiopians have a completely different History,language,culture,mentality,etc, than Nigerians.Same applies between Egyptians and South Africans,etc etc.

The reason why all of these people have different shades of skin,is very interesting as well.Anyone ?

In regards to clubs,for just a certain type of person,well I think clubs should be open to anyone who is interested,and/or wants to join.
If I'm interested in Botswanan,Australian Aborignal,Laotion,Bolivian,or any type of culture language,history,mentality,diet,etc,
I should be able to join,and so should anyone else.
Requirments for joining any type of school club should be based on genuine interest.

Culture is meant to be shared and explored in my eyes.