Independent women

[(Im)poster]

A lot of men say they want an independent woman, but I have to wonder if most really want an independent woman. I started wondering about this after visiting married friends last weekend. The wife, who stays home with their two sons, was telling a story about how she tried to put together a small child's chair and desk combination because he was taking too long to do it. After she could not do it, he put it together. "You're so good at it," she cooed at him jokingly at the end of the story. While I thought it was a sweet married moment, I thought to myself that I certainly could have put that chair together and would have put it together. I recall when I used to work with the wife that she had one of our male coworkers come over and hook up her VCR because she said she couldn't figure it out. That always stuck in my mind.

I have college-educated married girlfriends who claim they can't balance a checkbook -- so he has to manage the money. Another is the southern type that Grove has mentioned previously: she cooks supper, packs his bags when he travels and lets him make all the decisions. Wouldn't any man want to be served in this way? Hell, I wish I could be served in that way. :D

In all three cases, the husbands would be considered "good catches," and I wonder if such men need to feel like they are leading a woman who "lets me be the man," as I have often heard men say. Do all men sort of feel this way deep down?

So, now the question. Is it possible for an "independent woman" (one who can balance her checkbook, put shelves together, make smart decisions and support herself) to "let a man be a man?" If so, what does independent mean and how does one let a man be a man? I am really just trying to understand this, so all helpful comments and thoughts are appreciated.

DiscoLady, I know we have somewhat different views on some of this, but your comments here are requested and most welcome.

[Koffy Brown]

My personal experience is that there has to be balance. If I'm in a relationship, I don't want to do everything, I want to share the responsibilities in the relationship with my mate. Allow him to do what he does best and me to do what I do best. I do not believe that there are certain things that men do and certain things that women do. For instance, I don't think that the woman should be the primary domestic individual in the relationship, if my husband cooks better then by all means...get to cooking...We are equal, for me there my mate will not be superior. We both must be submissive and able to compromise. I am truly an independent woman with the capabilities of surviving and living a fulfilling life without a mate, so therefore my mate will know that my life does not revolve around his. In other words, I can make it without you, but I want you in my life type of thing. So all in all...I think men do want independent women but not overly...

[(Im)poster]

That was beautfully said, Ashaki. One thing though, wouldn't if be great if both parties could say "I can't make it without you" and nothing in that statement revolved around financial or domestic support?

[Leslie]

(Im)poster, I think what you with resepct to the woman and the chair indcident was a bit of a "game" if you will. I do not mean this in a negative way. The woman knew what she had to do to get her man to put the chair together - it was a bit of a means to an end. In telling the story she is adept at letting her man know that he is depended upon/wanted/and needed - which is an affirmation that men need -whether we as women want to admit it or not, or whether men want to admit it or not.


As far as men wanting independent women - they do when they are dating them - marriage is a whole different thing. Ultimately many men date independent women and if they are at the stage where they are looking to settle down and get married, they begin to feel out/weed out those women who they believe are, underneath all that "independence" willing to allow him to take the lead and be the man of the house when necessesary.

However, I agree with Ashaki, there needs to be balance and even though I am truly independent (I feed, clothe, and house myself), you can best believe when I get married there are times when I will just want my man to "handle it" so I don't have to be bothered (granted I'll have to suck up what ever the outcome is graemlins/rofl.gif ), and when he wants me to do likewise, I have no problem with it.

[richierich]

Leslie you almost made me spit out my coffee with those last lines. That was just too funny.
Peace

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by (Im)poster:
That was beautfully said, Ashaki. One thing though, wouldn't if be great if both parties could say "I can't make it without you" and nothing in that statement revolved around financial or domestic support? YES!! That would be IDEAL

[DJJM3.COM]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
My personal experience is that there has to be balance. If I'm in a relationship, I don't want to do everything, I want to share the responsibilities in the relationship with my mate. Allow him to do what he does best and me to do what I do best. I do not believe that there are certain things that men do and certain things that women do. For instance, I don't think that the woman should be the primary domestic individual in the relationship, if my husband cooks better then by all means...get to cooking...We are equal, for me there my mate will not be superior. We both must be submissive and able to compromise. I am truly an independent woman with the capabilities of surviving and living a fulfilling life without a mate, so therefore my mate will know that my life does not revolve around his. In other words, I can make it without you, but I want you in my life type of thing. So all in all...I think men do want independent women but not overly... I thought we agreed to keep our "little secret to our success" quiet...... graemlins/remybussi.gif

[Jamie 3:26]

I have no problem with an independant woman.I just want someone to understand that I am a man and there is a role that I am suppossed to fill.

All ladies here have said some things that a lot of women need to hear and understand.Ya'll will mos def make a man happy.Ain't nuthin like a stable,secure,mentally all together woman.Nuthin' will beat it.

[Koffy Brown]

Brother's, what do you think is the role of the man in the relationship? and what are some of the things that women do that you feel make you feel less of a man?

[mhd]

changing the locks

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by mhd:
changing the locks http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lach.gif

I've done that before...

[Jamie 3:26]

From my viewpoint,a more traditional one.I want to be the one who does the repairs,takes out the trash,lifts heavy things.I hate to see women carrying heavy things,lifting heavy things.It drives me crazy.

I don't trip on money issues.My only money issue is when there is not enough.

I want to be respected and honestly,I am not a super macho man.If she's better at handling the bills and banking than I,cool.It don't mean nothing to me.I just hand over the money for household bills and needs and I let her do the rest.

I just want to be respected and treated as a king.If I treat her as a queeen,why should n't I get the same thing in return.I don't mean kiss my feet.If I have worked all day and you have been home all day,you could have a bath waiting for me.That's not asking a lot.I am not saying have a hot plate on the table as soon as I walk thru the door.

Sometimes rewards for doing certain things.Sometimes being thanked for what I do.Sometimes getting just because gifts.There are so many things.It rather hard for me to type them out.If we were in a face to face convo,I would be able to express myself even more.

[lola desire]

i'd like to acknowlege the great points already posted. i would also venture to say that no human being is truly independent. we all lean on one another or at least rely on certain people to do things--like your employer to give you your paycheck, or a customer to purchase your product/service--so that we can live our lives.

having said that, it is important for partners in a committed relationship to work together. in our marriage, we each do the things we are good at. if i know that my husband is good at a certain thing, then i call him in as a consultant. he does the same with me. if we're both unsure about something, we work on it together.

above all people should stay away from roles altogether. by attempting to or expecting your partner to fulfill socially pre-determined roles, you willfully condemn yourselves to a life of misery and disappointment.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by lola desire:
i'd like to acknowlege the great points already posted. i would also venture to say that no human being is truly independent. we all lean on one another or at least rely on certain people to do things--like your employer to give you your paycheck, or a customer to purchase your product/service--so that we can live our lives.

having said that, it is important for partners in a committed relationship to work together. in our marriage, we each do the things we are good at. if i know that my husband is good at a certain thing, then i call him in as a consultant. he does the same with me. if we're both unsure about something, we work on it together.

above all people should stay away from roles altogether. by attempting to or expecting your partner to fulfill socially pre-determined roles, you willfully condemn yourselves to a life of misery and disappointment. I totally agree with you about roles...
it's about respect, balance and self-love..which allows you to truly love others...

[lola desire]

i almost forgot.

you should do what you love; seek a supportive partner... if you are a woman and you love to do carpentry (like me) or clean intricate details of things (like me) your partner should be supportive. if you are a man and you actually love to lift heavy things, or you love to knit, your partner should also be supportive.

at NO POINT should you not be made to feel guilty about or feel obligated to do any task.

my motto: do the want-to's, don't do the have-to's. chances are the world will not crash down around you; in fact, the world will go on just the same.

[richierich]

I don't know about the role thing because it is all relative to the parties involved. There is nothing that a woman can do to me that will make me feel like less of a man.. that's something that can't be changed. I am with the just see what fits for your relationship approach. There are situations that happen that you have to just deal with when they arise. To me it doesn't make a difference who's driving as long as we are headed to the same place. Of course you may have to defend your woman and or your home from outside negative influences but that goes without saying.
There are times when we just don't have the answer to a given situation and we need to let it be known that we just don't know something. The woman might have the answer... cool. As you grow with a person you learn that person as well as your fit with that person. I don't believe there is a certain rule of thumb for relationships because people are just different.
Peace

[ April 16, 2003, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[Koffy Brown]

Growth is a really good point...which brings me to something...my girlfriend writes for JET magazine and she quoted me this week in her article talking about dating mates with potential...so pick it up if you don't have it, and I will autograph it biggrinangel.gif

but seriously have we talked about dating mates with potential...very good topic, if we haven't discussed it on DHP I'll start a thread..

back to our regulary scheduled program...independent women...

[DJJM3.COM]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
changing the locks http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lach.gif

I've done that before... </font>[/QUOTE]Im not surprised at this........

But the roles have changed over the years, and a equal standing and responsibility sharing is pretty much the norm these days........outside of the Women teaching girls women stuff and the Men teaching boys men stuff.

As far as stuff that makes me feel less like a man not a thing. I can block things out or ignore pretty much everything. Companionship is really not a requirment for me.....I am the type of person that could live in the mountains for years without another person around........

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by DJ JM3:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
changing the locks http://deephousepage.com/smilies/lach.gif

I've done that before... </font>[/QUOTE]Im not surprised at this........

But the roles have changed over the years, and a equal standing and responsibility sharing is pretty much the norm these days........outside of the Women teaching girls women stuff and the Men teaching boys men stuff.

As far as stuff that makes me feel less like a man not a thing. I can block things out or ignore pretty much everything. Companionship is really not a requirment for me.....I am the type of person that could live in the mountains for years without another person around........ </font>[/QUOTE]your not suprised at what? that i changed the locks before...

[DJJM3.COM]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
your not suprised at what? that i changed the locks before... Yes.......The treasures you possess need ongoing protection.......

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by DJ JM3:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
your not suprised at what? that i changed the locks before... Yes.......The treasures you possess need ongoing protection....... </font>[/QUOTE]http://deephousepage.com/smilies/kiss3.gif

[RX]

men say what's cliche because it's easier and smoother than saying what they ACTUALLY want and need...

independently financial women most often should NOT be married because all of that shyt goes into the family pot anyway...

strengths and the ability to handle her own in a woman should not reflect the amount of ego a man has after he gets married...most of those talents won't be utilized until after she dumps his ass anyway...

[darrow]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
Brother's, what do you think is the role of the man in the relationship? and what are some of the things that women do that you feel make you feel less of a man? I often wonder why things have to be thought of in terms of roles. I think each person in a relationship should bring his/her talents and skills to the table and as a unit...they bang it out together and make that relationship the bomb diggety. I think each person should also enable the other to be a better -insert term here-. Why not one teach the other a few things (if the other wants to learn) instead of things being static?

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
men say what's cliche because it's easier and smoother than saying what they ACTUALLY want and need...

independently financial women most often should NOT be married because all of that shyt goes into the family pot anyway...

strengths and the ability to handle her own in a woman should not reflect the amount of ego a man has after he gets married...most of those talents won't be utilized until after she dumps his ass anyway... you okay today sistah? you ain't mad at nobody are you? just kidding.... icon_rofl.gif

[RX]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
men say what's cliche because it's easier and smoother than saying what they ACTUALLY want and need...

independently financial women most often should NOT be married because all of that shyt goes into the family pot anyway...

strengths and the ability to handle her own in a woman should not reflect the amount of ego a man has after he gets married...most of those talents won't be utilized until after she dumps his ass anyway... you okay today sistah? you ain't mad at nobody are you? just kidding.... icon_rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]you know that shyt's true... graemlins/grinyes.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
men say what's cliche because it's easier and smoother than saying what they ACTUALLY want and need...

independently financial women most often should NOT be married because all of that shyt goes into the family pot anyway...

strengths and the ability to handle her own in a woman should not reflect the amount of ego a man has after he gets married...most of those talents won't be utilized until after she dumps his ass anyway... you okay today sistah? you ain't mad at nobody are you? just kidding.... icon_rofl.gif </font>[/QUOTE]you know that shyt's true... graemlins/grinyes.gif </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/rofl.gif

[ngeso]

I can block things out or ignore pretty much everything. Companionship is really not a requirment for me.....I am the type of person that could live in the mountains for years without another person around........ [/QB]same here. funny thing is that my mom looked at me when i was 17 or 18 and told me "you're going to turn out an Einzelgänger". these days i think she did have a very sharp perception at the time.

independent-women-wise and w/regard to roles, "woman's work" and all that junk, i prefer to not rely on women at all as far as the functional, the 'mechanical' side of things is concerned. i don't like for women to do things for me if that entails my having to think about the things being done. i do not need women around me to feed, clothe, shelter, nurse or clean up before and after me. i do not like to discuss these issues either, simply because it is tedious and a waste of energy.

i admire modern women for their confidence and their ability to essentially get on in life without men where neccessary - and i think that men should be learning a lot about a modern male role by looking to these women.

the only thing that fills me with envy is the ability to give life. i wish i could do that. alas, i'm a man. and being a 'man' still more often than not centers around death and 'dying' (as opposed to female 'living').

basically, if you're female and you run into me and you're shopping traditional gender roles - you're not going to get far with me, because i have realized that traditional male roles are nothing but a dead end street, so i am not inclined to live them.

so. you can put your clothes back on and try something else. :D

peace. ngeso.

[Koffy Brown]

sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself...

[ April 16, 2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

[RX]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself... their babies would be crackheads 'cause they'd be like this e'rday graemlins/all_coholic.gif

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself... their babies would be crackheads 'cause they'd be like this e'rday graemlins/all_coholic.gif </font>[/QUOTE]graemlins/rofl.gif

girl all I want them to do is let a couple of sharp ass contractions hit'em once or twice...that's it one or two good ones...wooohooo graemlins/rofl.gif

[ April 16, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Ashaki ]

[ngeso]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself... overrated and typical female. probably not much worse actually than a nice, tasty combat injury. say, some dum-dum hits to the stomach or lungs or something.....

[RX]

Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself... overrated and typical female. probably not much worse actually than a nice, tasty combat injury. say, some dum-dum hits to the stomach or lungs or something..... </font>[/QUOTE]dude, we get that in domestic violence...it ain't really shyt we ain't felt, 'k?

plus, a body can go into shock with that kind of injury, preventing further feelings...it doesn't in childbirth...

[ April 16, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

[ngeso]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself... overrated and typical female. probably not much worse actually than a nice, tasty combat injury. say, some dum-dum hits to the stomach or lungs or something..... </font>[/QUOTE]dude, we get that in domestic violence...it ain't really shyt we ain't felt, 'k?

plus, a body can go into shock with that kind of injury, preventing further feelings...it doesn't in childbirth... </font>[/QUOTE]you know - it's not like we don't know what pain is. do not forget that by far most male violence is directed at other males. we just don't talk about it because we don't want to look like sissies in front of other men (and some women who think that that type of male 'chivalry' is kinda romantic...)

and as far as getting shot and shock and all that rubbish - you (meaning women!) can have all that bullshit for free because i do not need it. if you have sons, do them a favour and don't send them off to war - there's no point. not even you.

peace. ngeso.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself... overrated and typical female. probably not much worse actually than a nice, tasty combat injury. say, some dum-dum hits to the stomach or lungs or something..... </font>[/QUOTE]dude, we get that in domestic violence...it ain't really shyt we ain't felt, 'k?

plus, a body can go into shock with that kind of injury, preventing further feelings...it doesn't in childbirth... </font>[/QUOTE]you know - it's not like we don't know what pain is. do not forget that by far most male violence is directed at other males. we just don't talk about it because we don't want to look like sissies in front of other men (and some women who think that that type of male 'chivalry' is kinda romantic...)

and as far as getting shot and shock and all that rubbish - you (meaning women!) can have all that bullshit for free because i do not need it. if you have sons, do them a favour and don't send them off to war - there's no point. not even you.

peace. ngeso. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm http://deephousepage.com/smilies/confused.gif

[richierich]

If you are a woman that digs men..... appreciate us for who and what we are and if you're a man that likes women.... appreciate a woman for who and what she is or leave it alone. Regardless of our faults or flaws we(men) still get down for ours. Either you like us or you don't.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by richierich:
If you are a woman that digs men..... appreciate us for who and what we are and if you're a man that likes women.... appreciate a woman for who and what she is or leave it alone. Regardless of our faults or flaws we(men) still get down for ours. Either you like us or you don't. and I thought we were emotional beings...but it's cool...

[ngeso]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
I'm http://deephousepage.com/smilies/confused.gifdon't be. only thing i am interested in is changing male perspectives. my perspective. do things differently. modify the role, or get rid of it completely, if it is outdated.

however, women that want to hang on to parts of that role are a hinderance, if you understand what i mean. if i'm a guy who wishes he could be biologically able to give life (i know - it's a preposterous fantasy, but hey...) - and you're a woman that suggests that - even if it is fantasy - i would surely not be capable of suffering labour, and thus am not worthy of even thinking such a thought...

...then maybe you're a hinderance.

peace. ngeso.

[ April 16, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: ngeso ]

[richierich]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
If you are a woman that digs men..... appreciate us for who and what we are and if you're a man that likes women.... appreciate a woman for who and what she is or leave it alone. Regardless of our faults or flaws we(men) still get down for ours. Either you like us or you don't. and I thought we were emotional beings...but it's cool... </font>[/QUOTE]Naw I'm cool but to me it's just that way if you like us ... cool if not .. that's cool too. The one or one's that do like me are the one's that I focus on not the one's that don't. Shit I'm totally flattered when I'm the object of someone's affection but regardless of how you are there are some that will like you and some that wont.

[RX]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
If you are a woman that digs men..... appreciate us for who and what we are and if you're a man that likes women.... appreciate a woman for who and what she is or leave it alone. Regardless of our faults or flaws we(men) still get down for ours. Either you like us or you don't. and I thought we were emotional beings...but it's cool... </font>[/QUOTE]icon_rofl.gif

[RX]

why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average...

[Jamie 3:26]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average... Tell me about it...

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average... I think they like bitch tendancies more so than real bitches...because I've had to pull out some tendacies and guess what it checked him immediately...as soon as you go there they become lap dogs...so why don't we go there more often? hmmmm....can women be too nice? I've often heard of men being too nice but not women...

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by richierich:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by richierich:
If you are a woman that digs men..... appreciate us for who and what we are and if you're a man that likes women.... appreciate a woman for who and what she is or leave it alone. Regardless of our faults or flaws we(men) still get down for ours. Either you like us or you don't. and I thought we were emotional beings...but it's cool... </font>[/QUOTE]Naw I'm cool but to me it's just that way if you like us ... cool if not .. that's cool too. The one or one's that do like me are the one's that I focus on not the one's that don't. Shit I'm totally flattered when I'm the object of someone's affection but regardless of how you are there are some that will like you and some that wont. </font>[/QUOTE]I probably love yall more than you love yourselves...I love men...and their equipment... graemlins/rofl.gif or is it the equipment first then the man...well however I've decided to prioritze it....I don't want to live without you.. biggrinangel.gif

[RX]

see, ashaki...it's always the women that love the men most that the men take offense to...why? because we tell the how...it...is...if i didn't care, i wouldn't TELL you SHYT, nawmean?

if i loved "me" so much more than my man, i wouldn't be trying to tell him anything to improve because he'd probably get upset and leave or get better and see what i'm really about and leave...

[ April 16, 2003, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Ms Rickey X ]

[richierich]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average... I think they like bitch tendancies more so than real bitches...because I've had to pull out some tendacies and guess what it checked him immediately...as soon as you go there they become lap dogs...so why don't we go there more often? hmmmm....can women be too nice? I've often heard of men being too nice but not women... </font>[/QUOTE]I think that some men tend to let it go to their head when their women tell them how great and fantastic they are and they so to speak let the woman define how manly they are and when the woman says something to the contrary it just leaves the man left feeling dumbfounded and confused... like yesterday you were telling me I was the greatest thing on earth and now you tellin' me I aint shit. If the man were already confident in himself he wouldn't have needed his woman's words to validate him in the first place. She built yo ass up so it's easy to tear yo ass down. When a man lets his manhood depend on how a woman feels about him he is treading on thin ice. So many men do though and it leaves him in a position to be hurt or checked very easily.

[ April 16, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[richierich]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average... I think they like bitch tendancies more so than real bitches...because I've had to pull out some tendacies and guess what it checked him immediately...as soon as you go there they become lap dogs...so why don't we go there more often? hmmmm....can women be too nice? I've often heard of men being too nice but not women... </font>[/QUOTE]oops!!

[ April 16, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by richierich:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average... I think they like bitch tendancies more so than real bitches...because I've had to pull out some tendacies and guess what it checked him immediately...as soon as you go there they become lap dogs...so why don't we go there more often? hmmmm....can women be too nice? I've often heard of men being too nice but not women... </font>[/QUOTE]I think that some men tend to let it go to their head when their women tell them how great and fantastic they are and they so to speak let the woman define how manly they are and when the woman says something to the contrary it just leaves the man left feeling dumbfounded and confused... like yesterday you were telling me I was the greatest thing on earth and now you tellin' me I aint shit. If the man were already confident in himself he wouldn't have needed his woman's words to validate him in the first place. She built yo ass up so it's easy to tear yo ass down. When a man lets his manhood depend on how a woman feels about him he is treading on thin ice. So many men do though and it leaves him in a position to be hurt or checked very easily. </font>[/QUOTE]Very true. But this situation doesn't apply to just men or just relationships, for that matter. If our self-concept is based on another's opinion, that's trouble.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
From my viewpoint,a more traditional one.I want to be the one who does the repairs,takes out the trash,lifts heavy things.I hate to see women carrying heavy things,lifting heavy things.It drives me crazy.

I don't trip on money issues.My only money issue is when there is not enough.

I want to be respected and honestly,I am not a super macho man.If she's better at handling the bills and banking than I,cool.It don't mean nothing to me.I just hand over the money for household bills and needs and I let her do the rest.

I just want to be respected and treated as a king.If I treat her as a queeen,why should n't I get the same thing in return.I don't mean kiss my feet.If I have worked all day and you have been home all day,you could have a bath waiting for me.That's not asking a lot.I am not saying have a hot plate on the table as soon as I walk thru the door.

Sometimes rewards for doing certain things.Sometimes being thanked for what I do.Sometimes getting just because gifts.There are so many things.It rather hard for me to type them out.If we were in a face to face convo,I would be able to express myself even more. Don't your wife do this?

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by Leslie:
(Im)poster, I think what you with resepct to the woman and the chair indcident was a bit of a "game" if you will. I do not mean this in a negative way. The woman knew what she had to do to get her man to put the chair together - it was a bit of a means to an end. In telling the story she is adept at letting her man know that he is depended upon/wanted/and needed - which is an affirmation that men need -whether we as women want to admit it or not, or whether men want to admit it or not.


As far as men wanting independent women - they do when they are dating them - marriage is a whole different thing. Ultimately many men date independent women and if they are at the stage where they are looking to settle down and get married, they begin to feel out/weed out those women who they believe are, underneath all that "independence" willing to allow him to take the lead and be the man of the house when necessesary.

However, I agree with Ashaki, there needs to be balance and even though I am truly independent (I feed, clothe, and house myself), you can best believe when I get married there are times when I will just want my man to "handle it" so I don't have to be bothered (granted I'll have to suck up what ever the outcome is graemlins/rofl.gif ), and when he wants me to do likewise, I have no problem with it. Leslie, you are right, my friend has mad game right down to the girlish laugh. I'm not above employing such techniques myself (and I am sincere, as I am sure she is, when I do). But any man who is with me also knows that I will assemble what needs to be assembled when I have to, install a new doorbell, change the locks or what have you. Most times I would rather cut the lawn than clean the kitchen. But I do like to cook when it is creative and not the routine day-to-day thing.

I hate that I missed the conversation. All the comments were helpful.

[Wild i]

Honestly, I would love to believe that I don't believe in roles, but in my heart of hearts, I think I do, at least a little. My ex-husband (happy birthday, baby) was a much better cook than I, so he often did the cooking, but I must admit that it annoyed me when he wouldn't change a damn lightbulb.

I always felt safe a protected in his presence, even though he was gentle as a lamb and tiny... well, quite slender. I laugh about how he told me he could venture out on Loiza with his bling-bling when I was with him because I was a brown belt, but I think it bothers me a little that he would expect me to be the protector.

Now that I'm on the other team, I'm the boyish one (my son told me I'm the "father figure." Um? Don't know how I feel about that.) I hardly ever cook anymore and I do ALL of the home/car repairs.

I don't know what any of that has to do with independence. I was thinking last weekend as I worked on my car (which I enjoy) that a lot of people see me as an independent, take charge, can-do kind of woman but what they don't seem to realize is that I'm not like that by choice. I'm like that because I've never been the kind of woman men (or women) were tripping over themselves to do things for. If I didn't do these things myself, they would never get done.

Finally, I think there's a difference between independent and submissive. I know a lot of folks who do well financially, manage staffs, do their own cooking and laundry and whatnot, but are nevertheless quite submissive within the context of a relationship. If you have your man's dinner on the table when he gets home, does that make you less independent? I had a favorite uncle who was a good husband and provider. He worked for sanitation and spent at least one night that I remember single-handedly putting plows on all the garbage truck in his garage. He was always ready to help you turn over your yard, put up a wall or paint your house. He would walk the dog for hours at a time. But the man never bought clothes or shoes after he got married. My aunt had to either buy them and hope they fit, or drag him to the store. Was he dependent?

I think what others have said about finding the fit that's right for the two of you is important. If your desired roles compliment each other, then independence never becomes a question.

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by JAMIE 3:26:
From my viewpoint,a more traditional one.I want to be the one who does the repairs,takes out the trash,lifts heavy things.I hate to see women carrying heavy things,lifting heavy things.It drives me crazy.

I don't trip on money issues.My only money issue is when there is not enough.

I want to be respected and honestly,I am not a super macho man.If she's better at handling the bills and banking than I,cool.It don't mean nothing to me.I just hand over the money for household bills and needs and I let her do the rest.

I just want to be respected and treated as a king.If I treat her as a queeen,why should n't I get the same thing in return.I don't mean kiss my feet.If I have worked all day and you have been home all day,you could have a bath waiting for me.That's not asking a lot.I am not saying have a hot plate on the table as soon as I walk thru the door.

Sometimes rewards for doing certain things.Sometimes being thanked for what I do.Sometimes getting just because gifts.There are so many things.It rather hard for me to type them out.If we were in a face to face convo,I would be able to express myself even more. I am so late with all my comments, but Jamie, I have to say that I was thinking that a lot of the things I do, I do because I have to. I'll happily relinquish the trash duties. :D

I also wanted to comment on her having your bath ready when you get home. That just really touched me. That is such a kind and simple gesture. That sort of thing affects me more, honestly, than a material gift would because it requires thoughtfulness. I could imagine someone thinking -- my man or woman has had a long hard day, let me do something that would comfort him/her. Sweet. I'm an idealistic softie, I know.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average... graemlins/respekt.gif graemlins/rofl.gif

[(Im)poster]

Originally posted by Ms Rickey X:
why do "bitches" get the nicer men and soft women get trampled on? i know there are exceptions, but, golly-gee, if it's not average... This is a thread in itself...

[dVine]

Originally posted by ngeso:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
sometimes i wish men could experience a couple of labor contractions myself... overrated and typical female. probably not much worse actually than a nice, tasty combat injury. say, some dum-dum hits to the stomach or lungs or something..... </font>[/QUOTE]please. as if the ratio of men in combat:women in childbirth is equal. get another plan.

[ April 16, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: dVine ]