the right samples?

[mstranger]

hi all, and a happy new year to everyone. i am tryn to make some afro deep beats . i bought 1-2 sample librarys, but i never get the result that i got in my mind. you think is all about the procession of the samples that all ready got, or i must search for an other sample library, that is especialy for this kind of sound? any sugestions?

thanx a lot

[ebot9000]

Which libraries did you pick up? Some are better than others. Which artists are you inspired by for your production?

It doesn't take much. Just good kick, rim, hats & shakers and you've got most of the elements that I hear happening in that style.

And sometimes you realize that just the right reverb is what's missing :)

Happy new year to you as well!

[mstranger]

hi ebot. thanx a lot for your response mate.the libraries i got is 5p tribal percussion, and vengeance essential house Vol 3 . i am tryn to make sounds like Black coffee, Fabrizio Ortella , and Culoe de song. lot of percussion sounds in there but i think is not only that. dont know if it s about sample layering , or how all sounds is mixed together , but the final results of those artists is always sounds to me so good, with nice groove and flow.i agree for shure that lot of reverb hapends is their tracks, but am not shure what type of verb i must use with so many choices out there. (long tail- short tail etc).
btw thanx a lot for your help.

[ebot9000]

I would start with short to medium tails for drums/percussion. Longer reverbs can get really washed out, especially on repetitive parts. Fuck with the EQ to avoid harshness or if you're using an IR reverb like Space Designer, look for warmer verbs.

Some folks may be able to give you some specific sample banks that are good. In the stuff coming out of SA, I'm hearing basic drums like kick/snare/rim/hats and percussion like shakers/conga/clave. Usually pretty clear realistic samples and simple catchy rhythms. It's not densely programmed. The focus is on a good sounding parts, usually with reverb to add to the realism. Try picking sounds with the reverb on - that may be the thing that's throwing you.

But you need to audition the zillion banks out there and look for similar sounding samples. You might have to buy a good drum one just to get your snares and rims, and another to get really good congas. But it's likely you already have enough to get going.

Layering can be important in drum sounds like kick/snare/rims. Find something you like about one sound and find another that has something you feel like is missing from that sound. ie: a kick has a good low end thump and combine it with one that has the right midrange snap. You just have to be careful with phasing as sometimes the layered sound loses the fatness of the two alone.

Kind of a longer explanation on how to deal with that if you really want to combine two sounds that are phasing, but usually you still can with tuning, phase reversal or filters. Other times they'll just work.

But if a sample is working on its own, just use it.

Cheers, good luck!

[mstranger]

thanx for advices eboot. looking forward for any others sugestions about any quality sound bank for this kind of sound.

[Ashwell]

Hey mstranger. I think the other thing you might be hearing in those tracks is just good mixing and smart use of eq and panning. Listen to the orig mix of juju and check out how some elements sound a little further in the background, others right up front and others are panning back and forth the whole time. Also, a lot of tracks by the people you mention incorporate electronic sounds or tones into the rhythmical flow of the track. The kicks in most of that stuff seems to have the highs and probably most of the mids rolled off. To dovetail off ebot, all of the elements sound pretty simple and minimal and in some cases there isn't even really that much percussion it just all has that African feel. If you don't have time to get into drumming or rhythm and develop that feel there's a good program called Percussion Studio that a lot of drummers use to learn patterns. http://www.moosware.net/PercussionStudio/ . One version is free to use. I think you can extract midi out of the full version though and use it as a vst. Also, there a lot of drummers using this as a learning tool. So, there's a bank of patterns you can download. Big ass bank of samples as well. My percussion instructor turned me on to it as a learning tool so I don't really use it like this but you could.

[mstranger]

hi ashwell. thanx a lot to you too, that spend some of your time and try to explain me some things.really interesting the programm you sugest me, to study and learn patterns with this feel. a bit complicated though, but i know that nothing hapends without hard work and studying.

[the crackhouse]

Hi MrStranger,
I don't know if you're playing your percussions out of a virtual beatbox, but trying to put some of your best fingertaps on a keyboard or pads can also add a lot to the experience.

Just loop a minimal pattern and play it for a minute long. Try to punch the percussion sounds by yourself, adding less or more shuffle into it.

Then take the best parts and you will sound better than if you're trying to put the correct sample at the correct amount of velocity at the perfect moment: it can get pretty much like a math problem than anything else sometimes...

Idance

[mstranger]

hey crackhouse. yes i got ni maschine and try lot of times to record live beats with it and couch that feel you talk about, but most of times not this nice groove flow in there.from the other side, you are right.. tryn to put the right sample at the right time with the right amount of velocity with mouse , sometimes is a trap that turns you more in maths than music .btw i will keep train on those drum pads...
thanx a lot

[mocilo74]

Hi mstranger,

i will share some of my experiences in building drum and perc lines. If you haven´t already you should definitely check out some theory books about "How to play xxx" (xxx= conga, djembe etc.). Just to get a quick overview about the different sounds you could get out of those specific instruments. Try to figure out what kind of playing techniques you could do on a real conga (hitting it hard in the center, right hand, left hand, hitting it on the left/right side, tipping on it with only a few fingers etc...you get it, right?).

For example I have found a free live played jazz drum kit with nice oneshot samples somewhere on the net. Only the hi hats have been recorded a numerous times in a different manner: 7 close, 8 closed, 5 closed side, 3 open and 34 different opened ones. Usually I use all of the close & closed ones to get a nice swinging "never getting boring" hihat line.

After that you should familiarize yourself with a few basic rhythm patterns (e.g the clave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clave_(rhythm) ). Eventually you should try to learn how to read drum tabs (not on a professional level but enough to understand the basics of it, it doesn´t take that long AND it´s worth it).

Don´t get me wrong, you don´t have to understand all those stuff. Just grab something from here and there.

Don´t mess around too much with the velocity settings in the beginning. Most of the time I alter my velocity settings after playing some sort of basic groove.

Watching youtube videos from other percussionists might be also a good idea.

That´s it from me.

Cheers
mocilo74

[mstranger]

load of good advices in here. thanx a lot all for your help!

[Nightshade]

If you were at the South African Music Conference last year you would have saw how Black Coffee does his tracks live on stage. Make sure you go there this year.

Anyway, he first get a kick, snare, shaker then a clap. Then to spice everything he adds a percussion loop. He said he get's his loops from LOOPMASTERS (http://bit.ly/a1RnKh). To change the loop use a sampler and create your own rhythm. But Lars and Halo showed us a great trick to change a loop. They used a gate effect to cut other sounds of the loop. It's that easy, nothing fancy.

For the reverb, use a room reverb with a low cut to avoid muddiness. Make sure it's on a send channel and send it to your drums. Group all your drums and percussions, compress them, eq them and add a bit crusher or distortion in a send channel then send it to your whole drums (the group channel). And you will get a warmer sound.

[mstranger]

hey nightshade , thx alot for your reply friend. btw a friend of mine dj angelo brings coffee here at athens at the end of the next month for a gig, so maybe he can show us some things.