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View Full Version : A quote : BoldSoul, David Mancuso and Dj Marbll.. about democracy



the crackhouse
03-23-2003, 07:06 AM
quote:
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Originally posted by david mancuso:
When mankind learns that loving our children is more important than hateing each other, than we will have peace.
d
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Originally posted by Bold Soul:
Sorry David. Peace, like anything else, is an ongoing process. There will never truly be peace, as peace and war depend upon each other for balance.
As long as human nature moves in cycles, the natural ebb and flow will be peace and war.
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Originally posted by djmarbll :
I tend to agree Bold Soul. Peace is not a goal, it's a moment, which means that there eventually will be peace, like there eventually will be war (Kemetic law of dialectical opposites). Even after the war going on right now, there will be a moment of peace before another war is waged. I think David's point has to do with what happens after the war is over and the price paid for the casualties that were suffered. The true test of this war for oil (Freudian slip), I mean war on terrorism, will be measured by what happens after the troops leave and the process of "democracy" is put in place. --------------------

Now, my turn to say that in facts, after the US government has gone to war to put democracy in place in a country, democracy always failed to be.
Vietnam, Nicaragua, Panama, Grenade, Ha´ti, Somalia, Soudan, Libya, Liban, Iran, Afghanistan and the different states that composed Yougoslavia are some examples (outside of some african countries which falls under the same scenario, but my knowledge has its frontiers so I don't know which one exactly).
So I'm not attacking the US people, but once again the US government and it's real intentions about giving democracy to foreign countries... and Irak this time.
To free a country of its dictator doesn't mean that you have the right and autorisation of the natives to rule their country.

And djmarbll, after the return of the troops : what will happen in the states, england and Australia ?

(I also just learned that Irak was formed during the colonization of Africa, and was long time ruled by the UK... Is Tony Blair trying to get back his old territory ?)

mdpm99
03-23-2003, 11:25 AM
SAFWAN, Iraq (March 23) - Civilians in southern Iraq are beginning to wonder if the U.S. and British troops who have captured their towns are liberators or occupiers.

"I swear it was better when Saddam was here," said Jamal Kathim, as his angry friends nodded in agreement.

Iraqis in the predominantly Shi'ite south had high hopes for stability at the start of a four-day-old war that President Bush said would liberate them.

Instead many are struggling to find food, water and medicine when they leave their mud huts and wander along highways through coalition checkpoints.

Shi'ite emotions are caught between fears of President Saddam Hussein's troops returning and fury over what they say is the failure of coalition troops so far to deliver on the humanitarian front.

When Iraqis are not worrying about food supplies, they wonder why U.S. helicopters have swooped down on their villages and allegedly fired on civilian vehicles.

The dead and wounded are sometimes rushed to a British-controlled checkpoint near Safwan, a town of 16,000.

"All I can do is change the bandage," said a British soldier to a wounded Iraq civilian with shrapnel in his leg.

Hospital officials in Safwan said they have treated about 40 civilians who were injured or killed in air raids by coalition forces since the conflict started.

"We try to move the wounded to bigger hospitals and we find American forces pointing guns at us at checkpoints," said Fadil Abbas, the director of the Safwan hospital, pointing to a stretcher with a blood stain.

Other residents of Safwan, where the Iraqis and coalition forces signed a ceasefire after the 1991 Gulf War, said coalition forces are preventing them from retrieving the corpses of 200 Iraqi soldiers in a nearby town.

After hospital officials placed two civilians in a mosque before burial, teenagers gathered at a petrol station that had been looted, walking barefoot in gasoline and siphoning it for a few dollars.

"The Americans and British said it was going to be a liberation but this is an occupation," said Majid, 15.

In the countryside, women in black shawls scrubbed clothes in dirty water.

Other Iraqis sat outside their huts watching coalition troops crawl along the desert floor and tanks rumble across a highway, their treads ripping up the tarmac.

An electricity pylon that was destroyed by coalition bombing and burnt out Iraqi tanks reminded them of the war that had raised hopes among Shi'ites.

Many have bitter memories of their 1991 rebellion against Saddam, which was ruthlessly crushed after the Americans left.

Frustrations were palpable at a checkpoint where an Iraqi man was urgently trying to tell an American soldier something about a nearby power plant.

"He doesn't understand me. There are four Iraqis who work for the government who won't let us go in there to look for our relatives because it was shelled. The men have guns," said the man. "Why don't they listen?"

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Just want to add this: We will have a lot to do here since $ has been taken away from the schools, medical for elderly, and, etc., plus the full restoration of Democracy.

d

d

[ March 23, 2003, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

djmarbll
03-23-2003, 03:26 PM
Idancetoomuch, I put democracy in parentheses because I was making a mockery of it based on the very info you gave. You're exactly right. I know of NO true democracy that exists based on America's invasion on "terrorist" territory. True democracy doesn't even exist here in America!!! Ask any prisoner accused of crimes they didn't commit. It shouldn't take ten years to find these kinds of things out. Yet, R. Kelly can walk free, even after there's explicit footage of him commiting a crime? O.J. Simpson (whether you believe he's guilty or innocent) is a free man not because of justice or because we live in a democracy, its because he had the money to get the best lawyers money could buy. Oh yeah, a the past presidential election was REAL democratic (sarcasm explicitly intended). So you're exactly right, Idancetoomuch. Furthermore, we're killing more of our men than the enemy in Iraq right now. WTF???? graemlins/stupid.gif