Creating movement w/your Drums

[Sal Paradise]

All my works in progress seem to get this note. For good reason. I have no clue how to really approach this. What is a good way to tackle creating movement in your drums?

[blackwax]

what DAW are you using?
Various different ways depending on this but shuffle, swing and quantise are your friends

best advise I got a few years back was dont quantise everything to the 16th
try different swing on your hats percussion etc

Groove templates can be good depending on your DAW

[Shannon]

Also try starting with a loop and adding live hits/fills to give the song more emotion like a real drummer.

[Sal Paradise]

Also try starting with a loop and adding live hits/fills to give the song more emotion like a real drummer.

do you stick to any sort of pattern like every 32 bars or 64 bars? Never the same hit twice, or always the same hit every 64 bars??

@blackwax I think my issue is more with adding in random drum hits and symbols crashes etc. I put swing and what not on my stuff all ready.

[blackwax]

Ok cool

Study other tracks you like for inspiration
Phil Asher has a whole lp of just drum tracks well worth studying those
You will soon build a picture

Another trick is to take a loop slice it up into seperate hits then try and reconstruct it using midi
You can learn so much about beat programming this way
Cubase and groove agent are excellent for this
If u don't use cubase try recycle

[bootyvaldovinos]

Good tips. Even more basic is subtle (and/or hard) tweaking of vol, pan, EQ, reverb/effects of individual components. Even mild tweaking can make a simple drum track come alive.

[jah]

like blackwax said the best thing I think is to take it off the grid and manually shift notes forward or back to taste.
I actually prefer this to using groove templates, I have the templates and all that shit but at the end of the day the funk comes from minute loose timings and im a bit of a control freak so its nice to be able to tweak each individual hit. Usually a late/early snare or clap adds some kinda funkiness...

[Marshall Jefferson]

The *secret* is MPC whatever or SP12-or 1200

[Shannon]

do you stick to any sort of pattern like every 32 bars or 64 bars? Never the same hit twice, or always the same hit every 64 bars??

@blackwax I think my issue is more with adding in random drum hits and symbols crashes etc. I put swing and what not on my stuff all ready.

Since its a feel and not a predicatable rhythm being played I make them random. Or if its every 32 bars the fills and etc are random.. :)

[Shannon]

MPC is what I use Religiously..

[Marshall Jefferson]

Todd Terry, Kenny Dope, Roger Sanchez, DJ Sneak-Sp12 or 1200. Terry Hunter, Full Intention, Booker T, Dream Team-MPC 60 or 3000

[djfunq]

also: side-chain compression,
to get a pump-and-suction effect.
Normally with short attack and long release...
but tweak at will.

[blackwax]

Mpc grooves are the holy grail but recently I have heard of several well known producers selling up and replacing with NI mashine
Has anyone here compared and give pro's and cons to both?

[blackwax]

Mpc grooves are the holy grail but recently I have heard of several well known producers selling up and replacing with NI mashine
Has anyone here compared and give pro's and cons to both?

[Shannon]

Mpc grooves are the holy grail but recently I have heard of several well known producers selling up and replacing with NI mashine
Has anyone here compared and give pro's and cons to both?

No I haven't. I feel the art of producing is majority creative expression rather than the gear you use. You can create drum movements on a Sythn workstation and etc. It's about going past the simple loop functions and giving things a live/movement feel.

[dj aakmael]

Mpc grooves are the holy grail but recently I have heard of several well known producers selling up and replacing with NI mashine
Has anyone here compared and give pro's and cons to both?

I sold my mpc and grabbed NI Maschine, pretty dope.

[dj aakmael]

do you stick to any sort of pattern like every 32 bars or 64 bars? Never the same hit twice, or always the same hit every 64 bars??

When it comes to patterns like that, I like to use different ones depending on which instrument/percussion is being used. Some you could get away with a 8 or 16 bar loop, however, I like to play certain things all the way thru the track when recording. I do this with basslines as well as some other sounds. You don't wanna get too monotonous with the loops :)

[blackwax]

I sold my mpc and grabbed NI Maschine, pretty dope.

Pros and cons please?
Just what makes it dope compared to the MPC?

[dj aakmael]

Pros and cons please?
Just what makes it dope compared to the MPC?

To me it seems you get pretty much what the mpc does and more. It integrates with your cpu with ease, the pads sensitivity and feel are very similar, it runs your pre-existing effects plugins, you can add up to 4 plugs per pad by itself, runs very light as a plug-in with your favorite DAW (pro tools for me), runs great stand-alone, you can edit swing and groove per pad, etc. I'm still learning to use it tho, many things I haven't even touched yet lol.

It also comes with a pretty good amount of sounds and kits, and/or you can load up your own samples and kits as well.

I was skeptical about getting it at first, but I took a chance and is still happy with my decision.

[Ashwell]

I'm wrestling with the mpc-vs-maschine question right now. A friend is unloading both an mpc 60II, and 2000xl for dirt cheap. I feel like I'd love the integration and versatility of the Maschine but the one thing that has me leaning towards another mpc is the fact that they just work and they feel good to beat on. Also, I don't have to worry about computer glitches or overloading my cpu...as long as it's synced up I'm good. They're also built like little tanks and their creatively inspiring to work on without the computer. Sometimes, I like hooking up a synth, or two, for a little experiment. All of that being said, Maschine looks like it would eliminate a lot of headaches and it's obviously far more powerful. ... back to what Marshall was saying above...doesn't the maschine have grooves from the Roger LINN mpc's?

[dj aakmael]

I'm wrestling with the mpc-vs-maschine question right now. A friend is unloading both an mpc 60II, and 2000xl for dirt cheap. I feel like I'd love the integration and versatility of the Maschine but the one thing that has me leaning towards another mpc is the fact that they just work and they feel good to beat on. Also, I don't have to worry about computer glitches or overloading my cpu...as long as it's synced up I'm good. They're also built like little tanks and their creatively inspiring to work on without the computer. Sometimes, I like hooking up a synth, or two, for a little experiment. All of that being said, Maschine looks like it would eliminate a lot of headaches and it's obviously far more powerful. ... back to what Marshall was saying above...doesn't the maschine have grooves from the Roger LINN mpc's?

There may be a Linn kit, but I'm not sure. The best thing is to maybe peep it at the local music spot. I liked it, didnt disappoint :)

[Duron Tarik]

I feel the art of producing is majority creative expression rather than the gear you use. You can create drum movements on a Sythn workstation and etc.

Cheers i second that...

[Marshall Jefferson]

doesn't the maschine have grooves from the Roger LINN mpc's?

I'm curious about this as well because the swing timings are what it's all about for me. If you can put SP12 and MPC timings into it then it's a done deal.

[Sal Paradise]

I'm curious about this as well because the swing timings are what it's all about for me. If you can put SP12 and MPC timings into it then it's a done deal.

I know Daws have these templates out their as well. Definitely on LOGIC and I think on Ableton. I don't know how true or good they are but a lot of the are around.

[Ashwell]

I know Reason added the MPC grooves in that re:groove mixer that came with version 4. I have reason but have never had a R.Linn mpc in the house to compare the two. Linn says that he's added the feel of the old MPC's to the new machines he's making with Dave Smith as well.

[Pang]

thanks guys, this has been extremely helpful...

[Marshall Jefferson]

I know Daws have these templates out their as well. Definitely on LOGIC and I think on Ableton. I don't know how true or good they are but a lot of the are around.

They're the right timings, but a bit off because you have the X-factor of the tightness of the DAW sounds and samples. Some are really late, so even if you have MPC timings, you still can't get a groove as funky as with a real MPC unless you know how to tweak or edit each sound.

[Sal Paradise]

They're the right timings, but a bit off because you have the X-factor of the tightness of the DAW sounds and samples. Some are really late, so even if you have MPC timings, you still can't get a groove as funky as with a real MPC unless you know how to tweak or edit each sound.

That makes sense. Are pad interfaces like NI's Maschine solving some of these issues? Or is this just a case of something lost w/digital you can't recreate w/out good ol analog hardware?

[Marshall Jefferson]

I don't have a Maschine and have never used one, but from what I hear from guys that do have it is yes, Maschine has solved those issues.

[SoundScience]

I don't have a Maschine and have never used one, but from what I hear from guys that do have it is yes, Maschine has solved those issues.

So Marshall, did you state whether you are MPC or SP templates..and what percentage would you say you normally go to? What percentage swing would you say is too far for YOUR style?

[Marshall Jefferson]

I use MPC templates, I also have an MPC 4000, but I never use it because I've given up trying to sync it with Logic. I usually do 64-65% with the templates, but I've gone as high as 70% on the 4000.

[Duron Tarik]

I use MPC templates, I also have an MPC 4000, but I never use it because I've given up trying to sync it with Logic. I usually do 64-65% with the templates, but I've gone as high as 70% on the 4000.

60-65% was what i use on my MPC for year when i was producing. I'm not sure about now but years ago in logic when they came out with the swing quantize 60-65% was no where near the same as the MPC. As you said i was able to get around all that with just knowing how to tweek my sounds and a lil Matrix skills. The Daw of today have came along way so if these guys were to work at it i'm sure they will come up with the same feel as an MPC with out a hitch.