College Corruption Madness

[Fletch]

This is one of the most bizzare Marches in a long time. Four schools: Fresno State, St. Bonaventure, Rhode Island and Georgia are/may be in deep doodoo due to NCAA infractions.

Fresno state imposes its own postseason sanctions, despite winning the WAC Conference, for academic fraud (someone else did the players' term papers).

St. Bonaventure forfeits 10 games for allowing an academically ineligible player into the school (dude was cleared not by the coach or AD, but the president of the school).

And y'all heard about the Harricks (Jim Sr & Jr), with questions about them at Georgia and previously at Rhode Island.

What do y'all think about all this? I didn't even bring up Michigan, and their alleged illegal dealings w/the Fab Five (and Chis Webber's perjury trial).

[Mike Barnes]

Well, In reference to alot of the illegal dealings in the college game, Coaches have been undercover for decades(LOL), In reference to Fresno State, I don't know the full story, I have to find out who the coach is out there(Fresno State), But coming after Jerry Tarkanian, You better be milk and cookies(Very disciplined)with the way your program is run(LOL), As for Jim Harrick, The NCAA is going as far back as when Jim Harrick was coaching at Pepperdine(Great campus)in the early 80's to pull out any illegal dealings that he could have been involved in, On the low, Jim Harrick had alot to do with someone taking Lamar Odom's extrance exams to qualify for admission into the University of Rhode Island(Even though he denies it),while he(Jim Harrick)was recruiting him(Lamar Odom)out of New York in the late 90's, Also, Jim Harrick was strongly rumored to have given Baron Davis(While he was in High School)sister a Brand new car in reference to her convincing Baron Davis to come to UCLA in the mid 90's, I don't expect Jim Harrick to last to long at the University of Georgia(I feel they should cancel/Fire him right now), Jim Harrick is just one of the many,many,coaches who likes to cut corners(Illegal dealings in college), And The University of Georgia's reputation is not very strong ethics wise anyway, when it comes to discipline and Academics, A former coach at Georgia by the name of Hugh Durham(Who is currently the Coach at Jacksonville University in Florida)coached at the University of Georgia in the late 70's(Starting out in 1978), And even though he denies it, I heard that Hugh Durham gave Dominique Wilkins(Who in 1979 was one of the to five best High School cats in the country)a brand new car, and money, and offered to pay for a brand new house for Dominique Wilkins Family in Washington, North Carolina were Dominique Wilkins is from, I met some cats in Atlanta in 1985, who went to the University Of Georgia in the late 70's who mentioned this to me(All though not confirmed), But the rumor was very,very,strong not only in Atlanta, But also in New York, Were Hugh Durham was recruiting Vern Fleming(Former Indiana Pacer Guard)out of Mater Christi High School in Astoria,Queens,in 1979 and Eric Marbury(Stephon Marbury's oldest brother)and a cat named Jeff Thomas from Brooklyn in 1978, And the rumor back then was Hugh Durham would do just about anything to get cats that were very nice to come to Georgia, If i remember correctly, The University of Georgia was put on Probation in the mid 80's while Hugh Durham was there(Recruiting violations/and everything else)for a few years, So Georgia's Program has been under alot of pressure for decades, But, To me, The cat who should get the majority of the blame for this lastest situation is the President and AD(Athletic Director), Just as much blame as Jim Harrick, Because, Even though your Program is not winning games, A cat like Jim Harrick will only tarnish what little reputation a school like The University of Georgia has as far as ethics,discipline and academics is concerned.
Later
Mike Barnes
P.S. The other cats who were part of the Top Five High school players in the country in 1979 along with Dominique Wilkins were:Isiah Thomas,James Worthy,Ralph Sampson,Raymond McCoy(another Chicago cat,Whatever happened to him).

[Fletch]

I know about extra meal ticket Harrick lied about at UCLA, and the Larar Odom SATs. Didn't know about Baron Davis's sister getting a new car.

I don't think Harrick, Sr. will survive the season at Georgia. Peace.

[f0reverneverm0re]

don't forget Texas Tech
http://texastech.ocsn.com/genrel/080498aaa.html

(i wonder about Tarkanian at UNLV back when Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon were there...)

a lot of people know college sports is about winning to gain fame to make big money, but the student athlete is still being idealized. some think they should be poor and humble amateurs and this is a nice thought that would help keep the heart innocent but the people profitting from athletes are anything but innocent.

MONEY
coaches have to win. some coaches make over a million dollars a year--you'd think they could give them 1/2 of this and put the rest in a student-athlete union fund or something (i don't know if some schools do this or what).

the athletic federations make money and the schools make money, why shouldn't the athletes?

PERSONNEL
Mike Krzyzewski is able to recruit players who are good students--is it necessary to recruit people who might struggle in coursework? there's the "easy degree" road where players major in Communications or something like that and this is fair enough; the idea is that the player has to be a legitimate student. as an ESPN commentator noted, academics, not gifts, is the bigger issue. a school allowing student-athletes to get a free pass is going to bring a lot of heat. the student-athletes have to make the grade and those in charge of their education have to stop thinking like pimps who are only interested in the contract money that can be made.

in many ways, priorities seemed to be fvcked in institutions of higher education--athletics is just one. (businesses and governments using universities as farms is another issue)

maybe the fat cats are to blame directly for the mess of college sports.

as for Michigan, i heard that all references of the Fab 5 team were to be removed from the school which pissed offed certain members of this team.

so who all is cheating in college sports?

maybe the Harricks should be fired just for not covering their tracks well.

---------------------------
Big Ten conference history
http://www.bigten.org/history/index.cfm

Intercollegiate sports in america (old course)
http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~lombardi/his02/

Lebron James
http://www.cleveland.com/hssports/lebron/

[Fletch]

Originally posted by f0reverneverm0re:

(i wonder about Tarkanian at UNLV back when Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon were there...)

[/URL]It you recall, UNLV was dealt with severely. In fact, Tark fought with the NCAA for 20 years in Court, with the Supreme Court ruling in favor of the NCAA. That meant the end of Tark at UNLV. Remember Lloyd Daniels (4 high schools, and a crackhead at that)? And remember all of them cats (LJ, Anthony, Scurry, Augmon, etc) chillin' in the pool with The Fixer? A lot of people thought they threw the 1991 Final Four (but remember, Anderson Hunt's shot almost went in!). Peace

[f0reverneverm0re]

Originally posted by einnod23:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by f0reverneverm0re:

(i wonder about Tarkanian at UNLV back when Larry Johnson and Stacey Augmon were there...)

[/URL]It you recall, UNLV was dealt with severely. In fact, Tark fought with the NCAA for 20 years in Court, with the Supreme Court ruling in favor of the NCAA. That meant the end of Tark at UNLV. Remember Lloyd Daniels (4 high schools, and a crackhead at that)? And remember all of them cats (LJ, Anthony, Scurry, Augmon, etc) chillin' in the pool with The Fixer? A lot of people thought they threw the 1991 Final Four (but remember, Anderson Hunt's shot almost went in!). Peace</font>[/QUOTE]i think i'm missing like 12 years worth of memory (damn--oh well)...

[Mike Barnes]

Say f0reverneverm0re, Don't be fooled by the Duke University Stature in reference to Academics my man(LOL), It's very true that the overall student body academic prowess is very tough at Duke, But the Basketball team most definitely had there share of cats who were not going to class on the regular like, Abdel Abbdanamy, Phil Henderson,Robert Bricky,Jeff Capel,Ricky Price,Mike Sherrod(who later Transferred to Michigan State in the late 90's, and Chris Carrwell(Who on the low, Went home to St Louis after Duke lost in the Regionals to Florida in the 2000 NCAA Tournament), So that Duke University legacy for Academics as far as the Basketball team is concerned is definitely suspect from what i found out(Thanks to Emerge magazine for writing a very informative article on Schools with the Highest/Lowest Graduation rates in the mid 90's),Hopefully things have changed at Duke through the years since all of the academic allegations came out(It got so bad that Mike Krzyzewski was going to quit and thought seriously about Coaching the Boston Celtics in the mid 90's(Mike Krzyzweski was the first pick to Coach the Boston Celtics, even before Rick Pitino, But Mike Kryzewski thought the better of it/Which was a excellent move because he(Mike Kryzweski)is not a Pro coach, and came back to Duke, But mentioned to the Team that the academics have to get alot better or i will step for good, Mike Kryzweski used to go to Army, and those cats don't play that(Half stepping on Academics), And he played for Bobby Knight at Army so you know the discipline is there(LOL), On the low, Mike Kryzweski was one of the Assistant coaches on the Pan Am Team in 1979 in Puerto Rico, And it was Mike Kryzweski who poked that Cop in the eye not Bobby Knight(For those who remember the story in 1979 with the United States Pan Am team(Which had a Bomb Squad/A Very good team and won the Gold Medal in Puerto Rico). As for Jerry Tarkinian, He's been illegal ever since he recruited a cat from New York(Brooklyn)by the name of Ernie Douse(One of the best cats to ever play in New York in my opinion),to come to Long Beach State in the early 70's, That's what really started the NCAA's to hawk(Watch)him hard, And I also heard about some under the table dealings in the recruitment of Reggie Theus in 1975, Were on the low, money, a brand new car changed hands,(Reggie Theus was one of the top cats to come out of California in 1975), But, My way of looking to see if a coach is under the table(Illegal)is to look at a coaches history for stability at a
school, If a coach moves from school to school on the regular, Then there has to be reason for it(LOL), But if a coach has been at a school for a long time(At least 10 years)then chances are he could be alright(Or at least he has enough juice to get away with shit, so there's no reason to leave), I have the utmost respect for Larry Brown, But Larry Brown, had a very bad history of leaving schools(When he coached in college in the 80's), Larry Brown left Kansas after they took it(Won the NCAA's) in 1988 with Danny Manning, But the problem was the recruitment of Danny Manning that the NCAA was interested about,(Plus Kansas more than likely did not want to pay the NCAA what they were looking for to look the other way), And the School was hit with sanctions(Placed on Probation for a year)because of it(Larry Brown recruitment of Danny Manning out of High School), Dean Smith was very,very, instrumental in getting Roy Williams the Head spot at Kansas in late 1988(Dean Smith used to play for Kansas in the 50's), And Once Roy Williams got the spot he came hard(Critized)Larry Brown for the way he ran the program(Both Larry Brown and Roy Williams played for Dean Smith at North Carolina, But at different times), And i'm very sure Dean Smith did not like the way Larry Brown(Who is like a son to Dean Smith)left the program for Roy Williams, But also, two former University of North Carolina cats having static does not look good at all to the college basketball world. Say Einnod23, In reference to your comment on UNLV throwing the game against Duke in the 1992 semi-finals, Well, I have that game on tape, and everytime i look at the game all i see is Stacy Augmon playing milkdud weak(Mentally and Phyically)my man, Stacy Augmon played liked something was up(Getting those stacks/Money before a big game from The Organization/Underworld/Mob). If you have access to the game on tape or happen to catch it on the Classic sports network, Checkout how Stacy Augmon is playing money(He was never nice to me anyway, but the way he was playing something was definitely up.
Later
Mike Barnes

[mhd]

Mike, brother you are putting it down as usual, a few things, Mike Krzyzweski is a Polish cat from chicago, and i played against cats like him and they will dunk on you and scrap with you in a heartbeat, so to hear that Coach K poked the guy in Puerto Rico does not surprise me,

Ray McCoy went to Thornridge or Thornton South and went to college at San Francisco i think and never really did much, maybe Alan or Cordell can tell what he is up to or what he did. Back in 79 he Isaiah and Doc Rivers and Doc Byrd were some of the coldest cats in the city.

You know that Larry Brown hired Danny Manning's father just like Milt Wagner got hired when his son Dajuan went to college.

the biggest problem with college athletics is when they say they "gave" a player a scholarship, when you factor the practice, game and travel time the players put in more "work" than anybody on campus, plus their "work" generates millions, excuse me, billions in dollars for everybody but the players

[Mike Barnes]

Say Mark(MHD), Ray McCoy was at the University of San Francisco with Quentin Daily(Remember him)from Baltimore, and the Chicago Bulls in the mid 80's, Ray McCoy transferred back to Depaul in 1980(He came in the same time Depaul recruited Kenny Patterson from Queens,New York/Who was an High School All-American, and the Best Guard in New York at the time),Raymond McCoy did not get that much run playing behind Kenny Patterson, But the thing i remember most about Raymond mcCoy is Billy Packer making a wild comment about his weight when he(Raymond McCoy)gets older, something like, 'I bet Raymond McCoy will weight at least 400 pounds by the time he's 40 years old,something like that', Cold chumped my man's smittes(Face)on National TV at that, While Homes(Raymond McCoy is shooting foul shots, Also i heard that Doc Rivers had a older brother who was crazy nice(I seen Mark Agauirre say this while being interviewed for a profile on his life(Mark Aguairre), Mark Aguairre Also mentions that Doc Rivers is from the Suburbs(I think Maywood,Illinois)And Mark Agauirre said that himself and Isiah used to bogard those cats out in the suburbs of Chicago(Isiah Thomas and Doc Rivers are cold crew, Isiah Thomas was i think Doc Rivers Best man at his wedding, Didn't Doc Rivers go to Proviso East, The same School were Michael Finley went to, Also i heard Tim Hardaway's pops was nice also, I think his name is Don hardaway.
Later
Mike Barnes

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Mike Barnes:
Say Einnod23, In reference to your comment on UNLV throwing the game against Duke in the 1992 semi-finals, Well, I have that game on tape, and everytime i look at the game all i see is Stacy Augmon playing milkdud weak(Mentally and Phyically)my man, Stacy Augmon played liked something was up(Getting those stacks/Money before a big game from The Organization/Underworld/Mob). If you have access to the game on tape or happen to catch it on the Classic sports network, Checkout how Stacy Augmon is playing money(He was never nice to me anyway, but the way he was playing something was definitely up.
Later
Mike BarnesAs I remember, they were a little lethargic against Duke. Everyone put it as if Duke had the whole year to figure them out (remember 103-73 the year before?). Stacey's on my alltime NCAA defensive team.

F Stacey Augmon, UNLV
F David Wingate, Georgetown
C Patrick Ewing, Georgetown
G Gene Smith, Georgetown
G Tommy Amaker, Duke

You know Greg Anthony's a pro-Bush Republican, right? Sorry, he just misses this team (not due to politics, either!). Peace.

[Fletch]

In all fairness to UNLV '91, they had absolutely, positively no bench. Now this is comin' back to me. I used to argue with co-workers how UNLV only ran six deep that year. Scurry and H had graduated a year ago--very important bench players. Rembember Scurry's "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" screams when he got a rebound? At the time, I did say that the bench (lack of) would be their downfall. And they played games lookin' tired. After NCAA 91, I immediately thought it was the lack of subs. And then the "allegations".......

[mhd]

Mike you schooling me on my city! no surprise Mark and Zeke strong-arming cats, to see Mark Aguirre in a suit and speaking intelligently always amazes me. Doc is from Maywood and Proviso East, but i would say that suburban cats, like Maywood or Harvey, or Altgeld Gardens which are all suburbs but have some of the hardest and illest cats you ever did not want to meet.

Growing up hooping in the chi from the 70s on you would travel all over the city and suburbs and you could count on battles with white guys or battles with black guys and nobody backed down, you only hoped that the gun play would not get out of hand.

einod23, you make some great points about unlv, the best one is that Anderson Hunts jumper almost went in!

[Rudy Jordan]

Say Mike Barnes!

Brotha you never cease to bring the knowledge. Hope all has been well with you. We are back in Chicago and things are going well.

Peace

[f0reverneverm0re]

Originally posted by Mike Barnes:
Say f0reverneverm0re, Don't be fooled by the Duke University Stature in reference to Academics my man(LOL)... Mike Kryzewski...mentioned to the Team that the academics have to get alot better or i will step for good..and what i was pointing out was the focus on the student-players that attend the preps and academies and stuff; i may have been stupidly generalizing because more than a few coaches recruit in this manner (is this due in part to the recruiting these high school/college prep type programs do?).

Duke--who i will always despise--is a "clean looking" program most definitely and it's easy to get over on people when outer appearances are judged.

if all the stuff you come up with is from memory, i'm scared of you hail.gif

[f0reverneverm0re]

that's is odd how people want to look down on players for getting a free *education*, which is all the scholarship is for really, which is why some feel like the scholarship is payment sort of for the "services" of the athletic recruits. i think this is a fair deal. as well, not all players on a basketball court are on scholarship, full or otherwise (and from what i understand, limits have been placed on athletic scholarships--at least for Division I schools--in the past couple of years).

so just because people can make money off of players (students) doesn't necessarily mean that the players should be making money--someone pointed this out in another thread. however, overall, i think boostering can be a good thing but it seems to me to be illegal because it can give a team an advantage. blah blah, people get addicted to seeing their programs win and they'll do what it takes to keep winning.

anyway, if a star student-athlete doesn't do dumb stuff, they can get by in college w/o too much suffering. i look at boostering as something similar to begging for grant money, but that you don't have to beg and write letters to get it. people get free money and gifts because they're doing something for certain others, so what.

technically and legally, players aren't supposed to be making money/getting gifts by playing college basketball because they work/play for the schools/federation of schools and the schools (and pro sports bodies) say that they are amateurs and college basketball player isn't a paid position.

anyone--is Tony Coles a moron *period* for telling on people, or are the Harricks idiots for possibly getting caught breaking the rules? Coles blabs about how someone broke the rules trying to *help* him graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

ESPN had commentary basically calling Jim Harrick senior a rat for, as they see it, letting his son take the fall. they say he's tried to get people to cover for his ass in the past too.

[Fletch]

Didn't Mike Krzyzewski have a "bad back" during those academic and ballin' problems in the mid 90s? I always thought the back problems were a way out that year. Picture him takin' the Celtics job the year after he takes the "medical leave".

Speaking of Pan Am Puerto Rico '79, an extradition request is still out there for Bob Knight, for punching a Puerto Rican cop. The Governors of Indiana and Texas would not dare sign it.

Hey, of all the 'Cuse talk I do, I gotta admit, we did our thing, too. Years ago, a booster named Bill Rapp (upstate NY's largest auto dealer) allegedly gave players cars and cash inside of a card (Merry Christmas, Derrick. love, Bill Rapp :D ). He was eventually kicked off the Orange Pack (SU's booster club). Cuse got a year probation.

[Fletch]

I wonder how obvious Tony Coles's background was when the Harricks recruited him. Sorry for saying it like this, but sometimes, you could look at a cat and see the slime.

[Mike Barnes]

Say Rudy Jordan, Good lookin with the very kind words my man, I hope that everything is going well for you and your family also, Say Einnod23, Your right on time when you mentioned that Mike Krzyzewski had a back problem in the mid 90's, But from what i understand, Mike Krzyzewski is a man of very high intergrity and deeply Loyal to Duke University and to those(President of Duke and Athletic Director)who gave him a chance to become head Coach at Duke in 1980, So For Mike Krzyzeski to step(Leave)Duke especially when times were not good, Would have made him look crazy weak in the eyes of not only Duke University Officals/Students,etc, But his peers(Other Coaches), Coaches hold Mike Krzyzeski in very,very, high regard respect wise and stature wise in the same breath as Dean Smith(And that's very,very,very,high), Also, I always felt that Mike Krzyzeski knew if he were to have left Duke back then in the mid 90's, The Program(Duke)would have crumbled hard(LOL), Because cats(Coaches)like Mike Brey(Former Top Assistant Coach at Duke/Currently the head Coach at Notre Dame),Tommy Amaker(Former Assistant Coach at Duke/Currently the Head Coach at Michigan),Quinn Synder(former Assistant Coach at Duke/Currently the head coach at Missiouri)and Johnny Dawkins(Former alltime great at Duke/Currently the Top Assistant at Duke)were not ready to handle a major college Program like Duke and keep it competitive for years to come. I'm very happy to see that Mike Krzyzeski is and hopefully will always be on the sidelines(Coaching)at Duke for many,many, years to come, And when he(Mike Krzyzeski)retires, the Adminstrators at Duke give the job to Johnny Dawkins(Keep it in the family)because i think he will be ready to step right in without losing to much of a beat(Academically and Athletically), Also, Here are a few more names to add to your list of the Alltime best Defensive Players ever in College Basketball through the Decades, This list is long, But all of the cats on this list I felt could put it together on the defensive side of the game.
1.Eddie Moss-Syracuse(Guard)Late 70's to early 80's.
2.Ricky Gallon-Louisville(Center)Mid 70's to Late 70's.
3.James Bailey-Rutgers(Late 70's to early 80's.
4.Ron Lee-Oregon(Guard)Mid 70's to late 70's.
5.Eric Murdock-Providence(Guard)Early 90's to mid 90's.
6.Roosevelt Bouie-Syracuse(Center)Mid 70's to late 70's.
7.Dominick Pressley-Boston College(Guard)Mid 80's to late 80's.
8.Dudley Bradley-North Carolina(Guard/Forward)Late 70's to early 80's.
9.Billy King-Duke(Guard/Forward)(Mid 80's to late 80's.
10.Alvin Franklin-Houston(Guard)Early 80's to mid 80's.
11.Hollis Copeland-Rutgers(Forward)Mid 70's to late 70's.
12.Darnell Valentine-Kansas(Guard)Late 70's to early 80's.
13.Carl Brown-Georgia Tech(Guard)Early 90's to mid 90's.
14.Scott Burrell-Conneticut(Guard/Forward)Early 90's to Mid 90's.
15.Shandue McNeil-St Boneventure(Guard)Mid 90's to late 90's.
16.Shaheen Holloway-Seton Hall(Guard)Mid 90's to late 90's.
17.Tyrone Bogues-Wake Forest(Guard)Mid 80's to late 80's.
18.Shane Battier-Duke(Forward)Mid 90's to late 90's.
19.Larry Moffit-UNLV(Center)Mid 70's to late 70's.
20.Allan Iverson-Georgetown(Guard)Mid 70's, The Two years that Allan Iverson played at Georgetown he was the Big East Defensive player of the year, so i had to put him down for that.
21.Mutombo-Georgetown(Center)Early 90's to mid 90's.
22.Michael Jordan(Position:Anywhere)Early 80's to mid 80's.
23.Bobby Jones-North Carolina(Forward)Early 70's
to Mid 70's.
24.Stu Granger-Villinova(Guard)Late 70's to early 80's.
25.Ralph Sampson-Virginia(Center)late 70's to early 80's.
26.Sidney Moncrief-Arkansas(Guard)Mid 70's to
late 70's.
27.Mike O'Koren-North Carolina(Forward)Late 70's to early 80's.
28.Kenny Dennard-Duke(Forward)late 70's to early 80's.
29.Willie Glass-St.John's(Forward)Mid 80's to late 80's.
30.Marvin Barnes-Providence(Center)Early 70's to Mid 70's.
31.Sam Bowie-Kentucky(Center)Late 70's to early 80's.
32.Alonzo Mouring-Georgetown(Center)Early 90's to mid 90's.
33.John Duren-Georgetown(Guard)Mid 70's to late 70's
34.Bobby Wilkerson(Indiana(Guard)mid 70's to late 70's
35.Quinn Buckner(Indiana(Guard)Mid 70's to late 70's.

Later
Mike Barnes
P.S. Say Mark(MHD) I'm very familiar with alot of Chicago cats when it comes to basketball money(LOL), Cats like Sonny Parker(Former Golden State Warrior),Mickey Johnson(Chicago Bulls/New Jersey Nets),Carl Golston(Loyola)Alfredrick Hughes(Loyola)Donnie Boyce(I can't remmeber the school he went to but he did work there),Craig Hodges(Long Beach State/Chicago Bulls)Ricky Williams(Long Beach State)Terry Cummings(Depaul/Milwaukee Bucks)Teddy Grubbs(Depaul)Ben Wilson(Simeon High School/Rip)Nick Anderson(Simeon High School/Illinois),Ronnie Fields(Farragut High School),(Will Bynum/Arizona/Currently at Georgia Tech),Bo Ellis(Marquette)Maurice Cheeks(West Texas State/Philadephia 76'ers)Ricky Green(Michigan),Juwan Howard(King High School/Michigan)etc, There's so many cats from Chicago that are nice through the years.

[f0reverneverm0re]

Originally posted by Mike Barnes:
best Defensive Players ever in College Basketball through the DecadesChuckie Brown, NC sTate
David Robinson, Navy