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View Full Version : The beginnings of Peace being waged in the Middle East?



mdpm99
11-12-2003, 06:08 AM
"...the time has come between us and you Israelis, and listen to me Israelis, to get out of this cycle of destructive war."

-Yasser Arafat

DJ76
11-12-2003, 06:14 AM
If Muslims and Jews in that region can come to peace, it could solve lots of problems around the world. Not all, but some.

If the rich would share what they had with the poor, it could solve lots of problems aournd the world. Not all, but some.

If the righteous, instead of corrupted politicians, lead the world, it could solve lots of problems around the world. Not all, but some.

Many ifs and many problems. But remember this: from all times, most leaders of the world have been criminals. Perhaps we don't see kings with huge lands like in Middle Age, but yesterday's kings have been replaced, those that strive for power have gotten wiser and hide behind the veil of corporations, multinationals, etc.

To put it simply, much is left to be done before we can see Peace across the world, but to see Peace in the middle east, Yasser's phrase might be a good beginning.

[ November 12, 2003, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: DJ76 ]

mdpm99
11-12-2003, 06:23 AM
News Alert: Palestinian prime minister calls for cease-fire with Israel as soon as possible.


Please let this come true! It will show that it is more important to love our children than it is to hate one another.

hail.gif

d.

Ps. The way to true peace is thru peaceful means.

[ November 12, 2003, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: david mancuso ]

DJ76
11-12-2003, 06:32 AM
David,

I cannot get excited by this, until I have seen results. This conflict has been going on for so long, so many times did we have hope, yet 25 years ago, my family had to leave the area because of the same problem. I sure hope it's a start, but I won't get my hopes up either.

Hopefully, they'll get to an agreement before they have killed the last person in that area!

lyot
11-12-2003, 06:45 AM
hello David,

I would like Arafat to put his money where his mouth is, instead of providing financial assistance to the bomb squads of Al Aqsa martyr brigades..because that is what he has been doing the last couple of years...I really can't take serious the man who flushed away the greatest hope for Israeli Palestinian peace, namely his former prime minister Abu Mazen.. That was a man with a clear vision on how things had to be dealt with, but Arafat choose the path of violence (this is three months ago) .. I really hope that Arafat will see that his way is leading to total destruction of the Palestinian state idea..but to be honest, I believe that he's convinced that ONLY through violence (with a 'cease-fire' now & then to regain forces) the Palestinian state can see the light..

greetings!

JoeB
11-12-2003, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by lyot:
hello David,

I would like Arafat to put his money where his mouth is, instead of providing financial assistance to the bomb squads of Al Aqsa martyr brigades..because that is what he has been doing the last couple of years...I really can't take serious the man who flushed away the greatest hope for Israeli Palestinian peace, namely his former prime minister Abu Mazen.. That was a man with a clear vision on how things had to be dealt with, but Arafat choose the path of violence (this is three months ago) .. I really hope that Arafat will see that his way is leading to total destruction of the Palestinian state idea..but to be honest, I believe that he's convinced that ONLY through violence (with a 'cease-fire' now & then to regain forces) the Palestinian state can see the light..

greetings! and jewish settlements are sure contributing a LOT to to this peace process, huh? not to mention that ****ing wall.

altrrdst8
11-12-2003, 07:08 AM
and the fact that the israeli prime minister is a war criminal with blood on his hands doesnt help.
he is a war monger and must go before there is any chance of peace.

st8

DJ76
11-12-2003, 07:10 AM
what's the story with that wall now? I heard quickly through the news that the UN disapproved it and asked it to be dismantled? Anyone has more info on this?

JoeB
11-12-2003, 07:16 AM
and lyot, if you ever get a chance, check out "gaza strip". it's a doc that focuses on everyday palestinians and don't just look at the sadness in these peoples' faces but REALLY listen to their words and when you hear a 10 year old boy say that there is no real reason to live because of the way his life is and the things his family has to put up with then i hope you can understand why there can be so much anger in that area.

Leslie
11-12-2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by altrrdst8:
and the fact that the israeli prime minister is a war criminal with blood on his hands doesnt help.
he is a war monger and must go before there is any chance of peace.

st8 Here, here!

lyot
11-12-2003, 08:28 AM
Joe B,
you must have gotten the impression that I'm totally pro-Israeli, but I'm not...I despise all these right wing Israeli's who are equally responsible for the deadlock of the conflict..Yet, don't make no mistake,it's Arafat who's taken this to a higher level, with his second Intifadah. .. You can blame Sharon for a lot of things, but we've supported (i mean the EU-) Arafat for way too long..

mdpm99
11-12-2003, 08:55 AM
We can always hope.

d.

mdpm99
11-12-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by altrrdst8:
and the fact that the israeli prime minister is a war criminal with blood on his hands doesnt help.
he is a war monger and must go before there is any chance of peace.

st8 Greetings altrrdst8:

Even an olive branch will wilt if held out to long.

graemlins/cool_shades.gif

d

Hk
11-12-2003, 09:24 AM
Peace David, Lyot, good comments Dj76, right with you Altrrdst8.....

I am still wondering....given the "middle-east scenario"......let's suppose that this happens to Americans or say, those in Belguim, (would it then be acceptable to vanquish an imperialist by any means necesssary?--even if it means strapping a bomb to your chest)....my simple mind tells me that it would.

If, and lets pray that it never happens, a country invades America and has much more sophisticated weapons than she, I am sure many of us would okay strapping on bombs to ourselves to protect a region that we think is "ours".

Given that....dont ask the victim to stop fighting, whatever his means(I say).

mdpm99
11-12-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Hk:
Peace David, Lyot, good comments Dj76, right with you Altrrdst8.....

I am still wondering....given the "middle-east scenario"......let's suppose that this happens to Americans or say, those in Belguim, (would it then be acceptable to vanquish an imperialist by any means necesssary?--even if it means strapping a bomb to your chest)....my simple mind tells me that it would.

If, and lets pray that it never happens, a country invades America and has much more sophisticated weapons than she, I am sure many of us would okay strapping on bombs to ourselves to protect a region that we think is "ours".

Given that....dont ask the victim to stop fighting, whatever his means(I say). Peace on Earth,

smile.gif

d

Cheddar
11-12-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Hk:
Peace David, Lyot, good comments Dj76, right with you Altrrdst8.....

I am still wondering....given the "middle-east scenario"......let's suppose that this happens to Americans or say, those in Belguim, (would it then be acceptable to vanquish an imperialist by any means necesssary?--even if it means strapping a bomb to your chest)....my simple mind tells me that it would.

If, and lets pray that it never happens, a country invades America and has much more sophisticated weapons than she, I am sure many of us would okay strapping on bombs to ourselves to protect a region that we think is "ours".

Given that....dont ask the victim to stop fighting, whatever his means(I say). True that.

mdpm99
11-12-2003, 09:38 AM
graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Now is the time for BOTH sides to seize this opportunity and build PEACE. Palestinians, rise up and demand an end to suicide bombings and violence. Israelis, demand an end to settlements and the wall. BOTH sides must participate. No one will suceed under the mantle of fear.

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

d

Hk
11-12-2003, 09:47 AM
In essence I agree, but how do you tell a kid whose parents have been blown to smitherines that!...

No electricity, no clean water, guts, brains, dirt, stinch, bullets and bulldozers.....

Again in theory, I have to agree, but an emotionally traumatized people with the above mentioned complex will see it much different my friend.

Its how high our towers are and how full are bellies are that blinds us from seeing the stark truth of these international matters.

Leslie
11-12-2003, 09:53 AM
Going back to the thread I started a few days ago regarding the absence of RESPECT; this may be the place to start.

uzibee
11-12-2003, 10:01 AM
Wishful thinking.

As long as Arafat or Sharon will be in power, there will be no peace in the middle east.

Sad but true. We are dealing with two of the most treacheous and deceitful (sp) characters on earth (Bush is not far behind).

Cheddar
11-12-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by uzibee:
Wishful thinking.

As long as Arafat or Sharon will be in power, there will be no peace in the middle east.

Sad but true. We are dealing with two of the most treacheous and deceitful (sp) characters on earth (Bush is not far behind). I am sorry to open a can of worms people, but I must. How can Arafat be considered truly treacherous..yes his tactics may be found to be treacherous but you must really think about his motives. Since the Balfour Declaration (Google time if you dont know), Palestine all of the sudden became the home to Jews, the state of Israel had begun. Now go up this thread and undertsand the sentiment that these people have their "Back Up On The Wall".

Yeah suicide bombings are treacherous and terrible. But that is the greatest weapon they have. They dont have copters and planes armed with US weapons. They dont have Nukes.

My point: You will never know who is right or wrong but know this...the Palestinians are getting the short end of the stick and the are defending their pride.

Did I ramble?!?!?!?

http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/7916/timest55.jpg
http://www.statuskuo.com/temp/JesusCheddi.jpg

[ November 12, 2003, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: 1343 ]

mdpm99
11-12-2003, 11:01 AM
graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Israel has tried repression, aparthied, torture, and life is worse there than ever. The Palestinains have tried terror, and all out war, and their lives are hell. Why don't we all show some guts and admit, that both sides have created this mess and it won't be cleaned up until they look to their own sins first. Israel has to stop building settlements, the wall and bulldozing homes, Palestine has to stop licking their wounds, targeting civilians and put a real gov't together.

d

JoeB
11-12-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by david mancuso:
graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Israel has tried repression, aparthied, torture, and life is worse there than ever. The Palestinains have tried terror, and all out war, and their lives are hell. Why don't we all show some guts and admit, that both sides have created this mess and it won't be cleaned up until they look to their own sins first. Israel has to stop building settlements, the wall and bulldozing homes, Palestine has to stop licking their wounds, targeting civilians and put a real gov't together.

d well said, david.

graemlins/respekt.gif

Cheddar
11-12-2003, 11:07 AM
It is very easy to just say "PEACE"..hell that was/is my motto instead of fighting over the years. I too wish that there is peace, but sometimes that isnt an option. Why do the Palestinians fight?

JoeB
11-12-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by 1343:
It is very easy to just say "PEACE"..hell that was/is my motto instead of fighting over the years. I too wish that there is peace, but sometimes that isnt an option. Why do the Palestinians fight? then what do we do? disect this situation even further? you and i know(i think) why the palestinians fight but then there are others that will not agree and i don't care how long we talk about this, unless someone is willing to see this whole situation objectively, then we'll just be discussing something that will go around in cirlces. but feel free to kick this off if you are so inclined. and i'm not trying to sound like a dick with that last statement but please share if you feel the need to.

Cheddar
11-12-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 1343:
It is very easy to just say "PEACE"..hell that was/is my motto instead of fighting over the years. I too wish that there is peace, but sometimes that isnt an option. Why do the Palestinians fight? then what do we do? disect this situation even further? you and i know(i think) why the palestinians fight but then there are others that will not agree and i don't care how long we talk about this, unless someone is willing to see this whole situation objectively, then we'll just be discussing something that will go around in cirlces. but feel free to kick this off if you are so inclined. and i'm not trying to sound like a dick with that last statement but please share if you feel the need to. </font>[/QUOTE]You are right about people not wanting to hear it; which happens to bother me but we need not go further. I sum up my responses as opposition to the futile cries for peace when there will be no peace until the situation is fully examined.

DJ76
11-12-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by 1343:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 1343:
It is very easy to just say "PEACE"..hell that was/is my motto instead of fighting over the years. I too wish that there is peace, but sometimes that isnt an option. Why do the Palestinians fight? then what do we do? disect this situation even further? you and i know(i think) why the palestinians fight but then there are others that will not agree and i don't care how long we talk about this, unless someone is willing to see this whole situation objectively, then we'll just be discussing something that will go around in cirlces. but feel free to kick this off if you are so inclined. and i'm not trying to sound like a dick with that last statement but please share if you feel the need to. </font>[/QUOTE]You are right about people not wanting to hear it; which happens to bother me but we need not go further. I sum up my responses as opposition to the futile cries for peace when there will be no peace until the situation is fully examined. </font>[/QUOTE]Both of what you are saying is very true, but personal experiences also have a lot to do with the position one adopts. Under my roof, my mother and my father have two totally different views about the conflict because of what they went throught when they both lived in Lebanon.

But yes, put yourself in the shoes of a young boy that is born under the bombs and grows up in a community that is struggling, living in abominable conditions...

But you must also take into consideration the negative and non-constructive work that has been going on for the past 50 years that is very hard to dismantle. On both sides, people have been brainwashed and have unconditional hate for each other. And unfortunately, once again, religion is being used in a wrongful way. graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

mdpm99
11-12-2003, 12:15 PM
But you must also take into consideration the negative and non-constructive work that has been going on for the past 50 years that is very hard to dismantle. On both sides, people have been brainwashed and have unconditional hate for each other. And unfortunately, once again, religion is being used in a wrongful way.

--DJ76

So true.....

d

djyoavb
11-12-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by david mancuso:
"...the time has come between us and you Israelis, and listen to me Israelis, to get out of this cycle of destructive war."

-Yasser Arafat u should asume that everytime mr. Arafat opens his mouth regarding his peace aspirations he is lying. (same with mr. Sharon btw...)

[ November 12, 2003, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: djyoavb ]

djyoavb
11-12-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by david mancuso:
News Alert: Palestinian prime minister calls for cease-fire with Israel as soon as possible.


Please let this come true! It will show that it is more important to love our children than it is to hate one another.

hail.gif

d.

Ps. The way to true peace is thru peaceful means. he can "call" for anything, his acts shows he is doing the opposite. Arafat is currupted as ****.

djyoavb
11-12-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by david mancuso:
graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Now is the time for BOTH sides to seize this opportunity and build PEACE. Palestinians, rise up and demand an end to suicide bombings and violence. Israelis, demand an end to settlements and the wall. BOTH sides must participate. No one will suceed under the mantle of fear.

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

d man it is so complicated... i barley see peace in the far future (not saying i am not willing for it with all of my heart). there were so many "oportunities" like this one. let's say that Arafat is not the one who will lead his people to peace times.

[ November 12, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: djyoavb ]

Cheddar
11-12-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by djyoavb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Now is the time for BOTH sides to seize this opportunity and build PEACE. Palestinians, rise up and demand an end to suicide bombings and violence. Israelis, demand an end to settlements and the wall. BOTH sides must participate. No one will suceed under the mantle of fear.

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

d man it is so complicated... i barley see peace in the far future (not saying i am not willing for it with all of my heart). there were so many "oportunities" like this one. let's say that Arafat is not the one who will lead his people to peace times. </font>[/QUOTE]Being that you are from the Motherland over there and care to share your thoughts..maybe you could answer this...
Q: Why is there a problem? Why do Palestinians suicide bomb?

Cheers

djyoavb
11-12-2003, 03:01 PM
to answer your hiden agenda "question" shortly- i support the palestinian struggle for emancipation. i am a "good guy". all i said that Arafat doesn't want peace, i didn't blame him for the basic situation.

djyoavb
11-12-2003, 03:04 PM
did u know that mr Arafat transfers every month a 100000$ bill to "his wife" in paris? this money is coming from your pocket bro... (remember i'm a "good guy" don't start with who's fault is it for the whole situation, i'll tell u now- it's Israel's fault).

[ November 13, 2003, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: djyoavb ]

uzibee
11-12-2003, 08:06 PM
War and terror are big money business. Both Sharon AND Arafat made Billions maintaining this cycle of violence.

Sharon says he wants peace, but he is still building his wall of shame.

Arafat says he wants peace, but still cash in big dollars (he is worth 300 millions according to Forbes mag, not bad for a gangster.

Pete Nice
11-12-2003, 08:58 PM
civilized man creates
savage war machines
only to feed these machines
with their young

(mothers beware of the barbarians
at the gate)
the killers we create

wars fought over absentee gods
are now based on false prides, hopelessness
decades
centuries of humiliation
we fill our hearts with anger... fear
and our actions are hate... destruction

we are still as simple and complicated as our
next action
reaction
inaction

when will we grow tired of
feeding our young
to the savage
machines?

mdpm99
11-13-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by square root:
civilized man creates
savage war machines
only to feed these machines
with their young

(mothers beware of the barbarians
at the gate)
the killers we create

wars fought over absentee gods
are now based on false prides, hopelessness
decades
centuries of humiliation
we fill our hearts with anger... fear
and our actions are hate... destruction

we are still as simple and complicated as our
next action
reaction
inaction

when will we grow tired of
feeding our young
to the savage
machines? graemlins/thumbsup.gif

d

Cheddar
11-13-2003, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by djyoavb:
to answer your hiden agenda "question" shortly- i support the palestinian struggle for emancipation. i am a "good guy". all i said that Arafat doesn't want peace, i didn't blame him for the basic situation. There isnt an agenda here, but my thoughts are on how we can blame a man who's back has been up against the wall, faced with incredible circumstances it seems that Arafat was forced to use "any means necessary". So in conclusion when I hear the negative remarks by default I consider the circumstances which initially prompted his actions.

lyot
11-13-2003, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by JoeB:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by david mancuso:
graemlins/cool_shades.gif

Israel has tried repression, aparthied, torture, and life is worse there than ever. The Palestinains have tried terror, and all out war, and their lives are hell. Why don't we all show some guts and admit, that both sides have created this mess and it won't be cleaned up until they look to their own sins first. Israel has to stop building settlements, the wall and bulldozing homes, Palestine has to stop licking their wounds, targeting civilians and put a real gov't together.

d well said, david.

graemlins/respekt.gif </font>[/QUOTE]I agree wholehartedly.. graemlins/thumbsup.gif !

Hk
11-13-2003, 10:15 AM
(way to hang in there 1343, this is the only way that I can get them to see my point).

---almost like talking to the sky, UNLESS----

Again, turn the situation around, for with every action there is a reaction.

For conscious sakes look at your own history, your arguements sounds as though you'd blame the Indians for being destroyed!...tis how backward some can be... mad1.gif

HYPOTHETICAL: An invader comes, wipes out your kids, family, way of existence, and more than that you cant listen to or spin music, ANYMORE (well for 10 years lets say or whenever you get electricity restored)......now what do you do...?

Yell for peace(peace is action)

Do what you believe or feel necessary to get this invader to stop his/her aggression.....

or look at yourself, and blame your leaders and yourself for it happening.....(perhaps in someways I can see this point)

Silly, its a no-brainer! FYI, war doesnt have rules and when a man can press a button and destroy 300,000 and yet another can risk his own life to kill may 30 and the later is looked at as barbaric, that's when I know its time to throw in the mental towel regarding the masses.....(any of you know simple addition, good! do the math then)

djyoavb
11-13-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by 1343:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djyoavb:
to answer your hiden agenda "question" shortly- i support the palestinian struggle for emancipation. i am a "good guy". all i said that Arafat doesn't want peace, i didn't blame him for the basic situation. There isnt an agenda here, but my thoughts are on how we can blame a man who's back has been up against the wall, faced with incredible circumstances it seems that Arafat was forced to use "any means necessary". So in conclusion when I hear the negative remarks by default I consider the circumstances which initially prompted his actions. </font>[/QUOTE]Arafat is super currupted, he doesn't want peace because he doesn't know how to lead people in a peace situation, same with Sharon... it's more important to him to be in an influental position than to give his people the life they deserve... (not that he influents anything but putting more fule into the fire)... the main problem is with the leaders... most plain people want peacefull life. all they r thinking of is how to gain more and more and more power for themselfs. Sharon, Bush, Arafat... r feeding eachother's bank accounts mad1.gif

djyoavb
11-13-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by 1343:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by djyoavb:
to answer your hiden agenda "question" shortly- i support the palestinian struggle for emancipation. i am a "good guy". all i said that Arafat doesn't want peace, i didn't blame him for the basic situation. There isnt an agenda here, but my thoughts are on how we can blame a man who's back has been up against the wall, faced with incredible circumstances it seems that Arafat was forced to use "any means necessary". </font>[/QUOTE]we can blame anyone who's guilty with something... life's not all black neather white... if u lived here u'd know that.

peace (on earth) graemlins/beerchug.gif

[ November 13, 2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: djyoavb ]