The power of the DRUMS!!!

[FK]

Cutting drums is about the most important thing to do when you make a record. It's the thing that could make a difference between a boring dud and a floor-stormer.

Some people still use the (very old-skool) EMU SP-1200, like Todd. Others love their Akai MPC 2000-XL or MPC family. Some people want to play V-Drums like a real drummer and record the MIDI stream to a sequencer. Others yet just play the notes from a keyboard into their favorite sequencer software. The lazy ones might just buy pre-made loops and tweek them construction-kit like in a program like Acid, or Ableton Live.

...and some just sample it off their friend's record (after said friend labored over that track for three days) and loop it plain and simple. (insert icon here for 'No Shame')

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/musicband.gif

Oh, I almost forgot!! Some 'producers' are supposedly going in the studio with those strange and elusive animals called 'drummers, who can only be recorded by sound engineers, (rumored to be becoming an endangered species), who along with an assistant as if by magic manage to capture the sounds of the 'drummer' onto tape or disc. (this last one might only be a folk tale)

Discuss!!!

FK http://deephousepage.com/smilies/music341.gif

[anfernee]

Who uses real drummers now ?

I don't know anybody who uses a real drummer. Almost everybody I know uses software or an MPC, personally I can't stand the blo*dy thing and I only like the 60, 3000 models.

I think the that virtual instrument software could be starting to take over with the number of people using Battery and DR-008.

A

[blackwax]

Do you still play drums FK?

Just being nosey biggrinangel.gif

[O'love]

drums. very difficult, just like bass-lines....
to me a track is only word continuing if i start nodding my head when i only hear the drums and bassline..it's the base....

i mostly use my akai mpd16 drumpad to play the drums...try not to quantise at all......i use some acoustic samples (the wizoo acoustic drum sample CD is amazing, about 6 layers in 24bits for each sound) and also synthetic sounds..... i love the drumatic, DR008 and micro-tonic plugins.....

layering is also very important imho....2 kicks, one for the base-bottom and one for the "sound" to create the ultimate kick...

swing can also be applied, no, needs to be applied...that's why imho the MPC-range is so famous, because of it's swing..

in reason it's very easy to "Grab" the swing from a recycle .rex file, f.e. a nice looped latin percussion pattern or something, and use it to quantise your own drumpatterns...

one trick i often use is the "motown" trick, ie mixing an uncompressed version of the drumtrack or drum-submixes with an heavily compressed version of it.... low treshhold, maximum ratio, fast attack and release, and mix this with the original drumtrack, make sure there are no phasing-problems due to latency of inverse phase....

Olaf

[anfernee]

one trick i often use is the "motown" trick, ie mixing an uncompressed version of the drumtrack or drum-submixes with an heavily compressed version of it.... low treshhold, maximum ratio, fast attack and release, and mix this with the original drumtrack, make sure there are no phasing-problems due to latency of inverse phase....
This sounds interesting, I would imagine that you get a beefy set of drums from doing this ?

A

[ December 17, 2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: anfernee ]

[O'love]

Originally posted by anfernee:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />one trick i often use is the "motown" trick, ie mixing an uncompressed version of the drumtrack or drum-submixes with an heavily compressed version of it.... low treshhold, maximum ratio, fast attack and release, and mix this with the original drumtrack, make sure there are no phasing-problems due to latency of inverse phase....
This sounds interesting, I would imagine that you get a beefy set of drums from doing this ?

A </font>[/QUOTE]yups.. motown originally used it mainly on vocals....the idea was to keep the dynamics of a vocal performance while still creating a "fat" and solid sound...... the key issue is to find a good balance of compressed and uncompressed signal..you can also EQ or effect the compressed signal extensively before adding it to the uncompressed mix..

Olaf

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

Originally posted by FK:
Cutting drums is about the most important thing to do when you make a record. It's the thing that could make a difference between a boring dud and a floor-stormer.
Word up FK!

I can't wait till my stuff is ready for the world to hear smile.gif Here are some tips I came up with to share with others in this forum:

http://deephousepage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=000007

And FK, check your pms!

[POJI]

Hey fellows I used a live drummer on my recent release on Poji Records titled "LOVE" by Sheila Ford. www.pojirecords.com/audio/LOVE.rm (http://www.pojirecords.com/audio/LOVE.rm) issue My only issue I had is getting the bass drum ie (kick )to sound fat with out haveing to layer it with a midi 909. What are some of the tricks. Peace DjPope

[O'love]

i also want to know, although i don't have the room to record a real drummer...

i LOVE the way the neptunes can record a kick-drum...... it's slamming.....

i guess it all starts with a good kick-drum mic, good positioning and a very good mic-preamp..... after that it's all processing..

for me the book "behind the glass" was really helpfull to read about recording tips

Olaf

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

Originally posted by FK:
Oh, I almost forgot!! Some 'producers' are supposedly going in the studio with those strange and elusive animals called 'drummers, who can only be recorded by sound engineers, (rumored to be becoming an endangered species), who along with an assistant as if by magic manage to capture the sounds of the 'drummer' onto tape or disc. (this last one might only be a folk tale)

Discuss!!!

FK http://deephousepage.com/smilies/music341.gif Must be an urban legend!!!

Francois, do you still play the drums? I heard a rumor you were supposed to train under Billy Cobham or something...

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

Originally posted by BRIAN POPE:
Hey fellows I used a live drummer on my recent release on Poji Records titled "LOVE" by Sheila Ford. My only issue I had is getting the bass drum ie (kick )to sound fat with out haveing to layer it with a midi 909. What are some of the tricks. Peace DjPope Check my above link, the method I use may or may not help you out with live drum recordings. It's worth a try. Maybe the drummer will let you record the kick alone several times differently?

[ December 17, 2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Bande-A-Part_ NYC ]

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BRIAN POPE:
Hey fellows I used a live drummer on my recent release on Poji Records titled "LOVE" by Sheila Ford. My only issue I had is getting the bass drum ie (kick )to sound fat with out haveing to layer it with a midi 909. What are some of the tricks. Peace DjPope Check my above link, the method I use may or may not help you out with live drum recordings. It's worth a try. Maybe the drummer will let you record the kick alone several times differently? </font>[/QUOTE]mics for live kick drum, Shure sm 57, or 58
mix tip, gate until the sound is amost all attack, compress, eq, the adjust gating until the kik is as big and as long as sounds good.

Larry Rauson, House of Music, West Orange, New Jersey, 1994-Forever.

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

You were born in 1994?

Fuck, the young generation is taking over!

[socratez]

Originally posted by BRIAN POPE:
Hey fellows I used a live drummer on my recent release on Poji Records titled "LOVE" by Sheila Ford. www.pojirecords.com/audio/LOVE.rm (http://www.pojirecords.com/audio/LOVE.rm) issue My only issue I had is getting the bass drum ie (kick )to sound fat with out haveing to layer it with a midi 909. What are some of the tricks. Peace DjPope Heeeyyyy that sounds good bro, that trumpet sounds like Donald Byrd alot. That lfo sound in the begining,,,, that synth,,, is that a Kurzweil???

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BRIAN POPE:
Hey fellows I used a live drummer on my recent release on Poji Records titled "LOVE" by Sheila Ford. My only issue I had is getting the bass drum ie (kick )to sound fat with out haveing to layer it with a midi 909. What are some of the tricks. Peace DjPope Check my above link, the method I use may or may not help you out with live drum recordings. It's worth a try. Maybe the drummer will let you record the kick alone several times differently? </font>[/QUOTE]mics for live kick drum, Shure sm 57, or 58
mix tip, gate until the sound is amost all attack, compress, eq, the adjust gating until the kik is as big and as long as sounds good.

Larry Rauson, House of Music, West Orange, New Jersey, 1994-Forever. </font>[/QUOTE]March, 1963, and I know who killed Kennedy...

Larry

[C hristian]

yeah, cuz I told everybody on here who killed kennedy!

LBJ and co.

;)

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by C hristian:
yeah, cuz I told everybody on here who killed kennedy!

LBJ and co.

;) I didn't see you there...

Larry

[C hristian]

you must have missed me, cuz I was there! Check again!

http://www.earthcam.com/jfk/

[C hristian]

BTW, I can't wait until i have the means and resources to hire a drummer and all that. But until then... :insert not keeping my fingers crossed icon here:

[lesysteme]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BRIAN POPE:
Hey fellows I used a live drummer on my recent release on Poji Records titled "LOVE" by Sheila Ford. My only issue I had is getting the bass drum ie (kick )to sound fat with out haveing to layer it with a midi 909. What are some of the tricks. Peace DjPope Check my above link, the method I use may or may not help you out with live drum recordings. It's worth a try. Maybe the drummer will let you record the kick alone several times differently? </font>[/QUOTE]mics for live kick drum, Shure sm 57, or 58
mix tip, gate until the sound is amost all attack, compress, eq, the adjust gating until the kik is as big and as long as sounds good.
</font>[/QUOTE]hmm interesting..the sm57 is such a versitile mic..but not great for overheads on drums (for getting nat reverb etc)

the sm57 plus a mashall amp is pretty much the sound you hear on every classic rock record that came out in the 70's plus its great for things like horns and even snares.

about live drums..interesting tid bit: the kick on "dance" earth people is actually live (later sequenced ofcourse) but thats how it has that distinctive sound. compressed throu the ssl but still a live sound so dont fret!

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

Originally posted by lesysteme:
about live drums..interesting tid bit: the kick on "dance" earth people is actually live (later sequenced ofcourse) but thats how it has that distinctive sound. compressed throu the ssl but still a live sound so dont fret! That's one of the most distinct kick drums ever.

[lesysteme]

lately ive been using the battery plug-in for drum programming.

its very good ..allows things like bit rate adjustments on samples plus a larger amount of waveform editing options. the interface is fairly intuitive and it allows drag and drop of your samples.

i try to get good clean samples of the various machines, done with good d-a conversion..but nothing beats the actually machines..or live drummers and percussion etc obviously.


dropping the bit depth down gives sampled hi hats more character i find (rather than doubling, which id rather use for kicks, claps and snares).

thats being said, still on the look out for an sp1200 (at a good price!)

i used to use a sequencial circuits prophet 3000 sampler for drums.

the 3000's killer filters plus clean 909 samples made for great sounds! still sorry i sold it, one of the most under-rated, coolest sound samplers ever

[DJ OJI]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ ]mics for live kick drum, Shure sm 57, or 58
mix tip, gate until the sound is amost all attack, compress, eq, the adjust gating until the kik is as big and as long as sounds good.

Larry Rauson, House of Music, West Orange, New Jersey, 1994-Forever. How about micing percussive instruments like congas and bongos? Any suggestions on mic types? (omni or uni? or brand ?)


BTW Bande - good tip on the kick
Peace,
Oji

[ December 17, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: djoji ]

[Brian]

for beefing up kick drums (live or sequenced) you can use a noise gate with a "key" input

run a low frequency sinewave (50hz or whatever depending on the song/context) into the main input and use the bassdrum as a key ... set things so that when the kick hits the gate opens and lets the sine wave through ... then adjust the gate's attack, release, etc to dial in the sound you want

you can of course use something other than a sinewave for this depending on what sound you are looking for

[GrantB]

Originally posted by larry rauson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BRIAN POPE:
Hey fellows I used a live drummer on my recent release on Poji Records titled "LOVE" by Sheila Ford. My only issue I had is getting the bass drum ie (kick )to sound fat with out haveing to layer it with a midi 909. What are some of the tricks. Peace DjPope Check my above link, the method I use may or may not help you out with live drum recordings. It's worth a try. Maybe the drummer will let you record the kick alone several times differently? </font>[/QUOTE]mics for live kick drum, Shure sm 57, or 58
mix tip, gate until the sound is amost all attack, compress, eq, the adjust gating until the kik is as big and as long as sounds good.

Larry Rauson, House of Music, West Orange, New Jersey, 1994-Forever. </font>[/QUOTE]Hi Larry. Have you tried the AKG D112? When I was in retail, I did a comparison with this and the SM57, Beta 52, and some Peavy and EV dynamics. The AKG absolutely SMOKED the competition, no matter what I threw at it. The sound hits you in the chest like a ton of bricks with no processing.

Edit: this was for kick drums only by the way.

[ December 17, 2003, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: GrantB ]

[DOTSmusic]

Originally posted by anfernee:
Who uses real drummers now ?

I don't know anybody who uses a real drummer. Almost everybody I know uses software or an MPC, personally I can't stand the blo*dy thing and I only like the 60, 3000 models.

I think the that virtual instrument software could be starting to take over with the number of people using Battery and DR-008.

A my band WHITE LIGHT has a drummer. also live bass and vocals. we play a kinda Chicago Jack House meets, Industrial/EBM/Electro, meets Punk Rock, meets Techno sound.

[ December 17, 2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: aKiLa ]

[FK]

Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
Francois, do you still play the drums? I heard a rumor you were supposed to train under Billy Cobham or something... I did spend some time studying with Tony Williams in '75 - 76. hail.gif

Not much time to hit the skins recently, but I think that this will change in the next year, planning to upgrade to a new kit, just bought some new cymbals....and going to set up the whole thing!!

Stay tuned.

FK

[Chicago Skyway Music]

WOW! Tony Williams! Studing under The main man!
WOW! hail.gif



Originally posted by FK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
Francois, do you still play the drums? I heard a rumor you were supposed to train under Billy Cobham or something... I did spend some time studying with Tony Williams in '75 - 76. hail.gif

Not much time to hit the skins recently, but I think that this will change in the next year, planning to upgrade to a new kit, just bought some new cymbals....and going to set up the whole thing!!

Stay tuned.

FK </font>[/QUOTE]hail.gif

[djyoavb]

Originally posted by Sean Hernandez:
WOW! Tony Williams! Studing under The main man!
WOW! hail.gif


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by FK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
Francois, do you still play the drums? I heard a rumor you were supposed to train under Billy Cobham or something... I did spend some time studying with Tony Williams in '75 - 76. hail.gif

Not much time to hit the skins recently, but I think that this will change in the next year, planning to upgrade to a new kit, just bought some new cymbals....and going to set up the whole thing!!

Stay tuned.

FK </font>[/QUOTE]hail.gif </font>[/QUOTE]indeeeeeeeeed WOW!!!! the main force behind Miles most amazing quintet!!!!!! what a genious!!! u r very very lucky smile.gif