How to get a decent sounding kick...

[Dav]

...you would think it would be the easiest thing in the world...to get a nice sounding wholesome kick the way you here in all those great house records...how do they do it? I know there using a professional studio and professional mastering analog gear, but there must be a way to get a semi decent sounding kick in the digital domain using the computer.

I've got some samples of 808's and 909's and even they sound shit. Maybe I'm using the wrong samples? A lot of the times I struggle to get a good driving warm kick. A weak Kick can ruin a whole track.

How do you guys get a good sounding kick?

Cheers,

Dav

[steffenb]

im not as good in doing kicks
also know the "kick got no punch" problem ;)
but im getting better and i want to share some
tips that i figured out ...

1. take the best sounding source material you can
get ! when the source is shit it wont get much
better ...

2. play around with the eq ...
cut everything under 30hz you dont need
those frequencies but they fill up the
spectrum ...
ad a bit more at around 180hz and 1000 hz

3. compress and limit with care ...
try sidechain compression with the bass
to give the kick some room ...

4. if you got a realy punchy kick but the kick
isnt deep enough , put a sinewave under it .

hope that helps a bit ...
would like to write more but my english isnt good enough
hope you understand what i had written smile.gif

[steffenb]

if you need some good source material
just pm me and i will send you some ;)

[dcook]

compression efx might help....no...? graemlins/conf44.gif

[Dav]

thanks for the tips!

steffenb, I will pm you if thats ok.

Thanks!

[drilla]

a sinewave...

good idea!

[JorgeG]

Thank you Dav for the question and thread.

SteffenB and Dcook for the info.

I think I'm lazy to type....ok I know.

Here is a paragraph from an article in Keyboard.

http://img64.exs.cx/img64/3258/KickDrum2.gif

[ August 13, 2004, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: JorgeG ]

[steffenb]

@ jorge graemlins/thumbsup.gif thats the way it works ...

[Dav]

Thanks Jorge for the info. Spot on graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[dennis f]

I sometimes have the same issue since there are so many scenarios that play out.

Many times there is actually a need not to make the kick so dominating in a mix. You see the bass provides that illusion. Especially in the club setting. That's why it pays to get yourselves a cheap pair of speakers with 12 or 15" cones to reference your mix against. It's a must cuz what comes out of your puny 8" studio monitors almost always does not translate well in a club setting. Things just start dissapearing and getting smeared when those low frequencies start dominating. I've got a cheap ass pair of huge KLH's for this purpose alone.
2 rules of the thumb:

big sub kick/use mid rangey bass:

Big kicks are a bit difficult as they can get really sloppy when you use too much 60 - 80 hz. This sounds amazing on your studio monitors but when it's in the club it just sounds like a huge low frequency collage of garbage. Kerri is notorious for getting that kick right though. I can only divulge a bit but the hint is to use a subharmonic synth to get that bottom out and then roll off some of the lows in the original just to get that attack going. Feed the subharmonic synth into a mono channel and adjust. (Note: Maxbass can almost do it..but it still doesn't sound right). Then complement with the bassline by adding slight db's to it at around the 400 to 500hz and subtracting db's from the range where your kick is predominant all whilst paying attention to the relationship with the kick.


big sub bass/use sharp attack kick with subs rolled off:

You see since the bass is so subby you need something to complement and add definition hence you hit the eq on your kick at about the 110 - 250 hz range for that click in your kick. Your q should be anywhere from 1.2 to 2. use the db's to your discretion...though a worthy note is to try subtraction instead of addition as you really want to take away offending frequencies and keep away from adding any noise and harmonic overtones. In this case you'd use a shelf and roll off from about 60 to 100hz till you hear that attack.

I've heard some of the thinnest kicks sound ridiculously huge in a club when the bassline shoots in....so it's much more than finding and eq'ing nice kicks but it's more like defining the relationships between the bass and kick to establish the illusion. On another note...reading theories on eq'ing is a good thing but most are into eq'ing modern pop and rock music. This is good for learning about it's usage on regular instruments...but you kind of have to form your on hypothesis when eq'ing the kick and bass when your making club music becuz most of the time what sounds amazing in a club doesn't translate well in to your car stereo.

I guess i might of ranted off the topic a bit but I hope this helps some

peace

[jsd540]

Thanks Dennis

That put a great perspective on it... graemlins/thumbsup.gif

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