TREVOR NELSON SUCKS - Soul Nation Part 3 on UK TV and the fcuk'd scene in UK - Soul ?

**danny webb** · 07-03-2003, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by Albert Square:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by danny webb:
here is an easy to use class distinction formula:

Working - Shaun Ryder
Middle - Tim (sap) Henman
Upper - Harry n Wills

I am in the first section = northern monkey

I'd say I was somewhere between a Tim and a Shaun. Maybe a lower Timmy? Its hard to say. [/QUOTE]maybe I shoulda inserted a sub strata there:

lower middle/upper working = TV's Iain Lee

**Bran (Bad attitude and from London)** · 07-03-2003, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Albert Square:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by danny webb:
here is an easy to use class distinction formula:

Working - Shaun Ryder
Middle - Tim (sap) Henman
Upper - Harry n Wills

I am in the first section = northern monkey

I'd say I was somewhere between a Tim and a Shaun. Maybe a lower Timmy? Its hard to say. [/QUOTE]Yes, the term Lower Middle Class does exist, for you people like you.

**beaniboy67** · 07-03-2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]al "exactly".When i first went clubbing to Ayr pavillion 50% of the crowd was stone island wearing hooligans.Boys Own fanzine was started by hooligans and had a hooligan element back in its early days.

And isnt house music being a part of something.

**Digiman** · 07-03-2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Bran W:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Albert Square:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by danny webb:
here is an easy to use class distinction formula:

Working - Shaun Ryder
Middle - Tim (sap) Henman
Upper - Harry n Wills

I am in the first section = northern monkey

I'd say I was somewhere between a Tim and a Shaun. Maybe a lower Timmy? Its hard to say. [/QUOTE]Yes, the term Lower Middle Class does exist, for you people like you. [/QUOTE]Can't I just be upper class? I mean, what's to stop me saying I'm upper class? Can't I get down with the Queen and Lady Archer?

**Al Kent** · 07-03-2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]Fcuk, and people slag off London clubs. [img]graemlins/jpshakehead.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Eh? [/QUOTE]at least we have enough choice of clubs so that you don't always have to rub shoulders with the thug element 'hooligans' as you put it [/QUOTE]I still don't get your point. All I'm saying is that hooligans, casuals, had a major presence at early house clubs, across the UK, London included. What's your point?

**beaniboy67** · 07-03-2003, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by Bran W:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Albert Square:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by danny webb:
here is an easy to use class distinction formula:

Working - Shaun Ryder
Middle - Tim (sap) Henman
Upper - Harry n Wills

I am in the first section = northern monkey

I'd say I was somewhere between a Tim and a Shaun. Maybe a lower Timmy? Its hard to say. [/QUOTE]Yes, the term Lower Middle Class does exist, for you people like you. [/QUOTE]can i ask what you mean by the term Lower Middle Class does exist, for you people like you. [/QB][/QUOTE]

**Al Kent** · 07-03-2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by beaniboy67:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]al "exactly".When i first went clubbing to Ayr pavillion 50% of the crowd was stone island wearing hooligans.Boys Own fanzine was started by hooligans and had a hooligan element back in its early days.

And isnt house music being a part of something. [/QUOTE]The Pavilion was indeed at least 80% casuals, most of them had been frequenting house clubs for a good few years before that...

**beaniboy67** · 07-03-2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]Fcuk, and people slag off London clubs. [img]graemlins/jpshakehead.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Eh? [/QUOTE]at least we have enough choice of clubs so that you don't always have to rub shoulders with the thug element 'hooligans' as you put it [/QUOTE]I still don't get your point. All I'm saying is that hooligans, casuals, had a major presence at early house clubs, across the UK, London included. What's your point? [/QUOTE]at least we have enough choice of clubs so that you don't always have to rub shoulders with the thug element 'hooligans' as you put it

What thje f..ck is that quote all about!!id like to hear what club you went to in the late 80s early 90s if there wasnt any casuals attending.You must have lived in Chi town cos id find it hard to believe what uk club didnt have a casual element back in the day!!

**ladyboygrimsby** · 07-03-2003, 10:20 AM

Does anybody know what this topic is about any more? It appears to be a long list of non-sequiturs (look it up: they're not for cutting roses with, either)

**martin** · 07-03-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]Fcuk, and people slag off London clubs. [img]graemlins/jpshakehead.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Eh? [/QUOTE]at least we have enough choice of clubs so that you don't always have to rub shoulders with the thug element 'hooligans' as you put it [/QUOTE]I still don't get your point. All I'm saying is that hooligans, casuals, had a major presence at early house clubs, across the UK, London included. What's your point? [/QUOTE]As I remember Shoom and High On Hope (heard of them?) didn't suffer a hooligan element.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear - some people are quick to slag off the scene, but we do have CHOICE. So if you didn't want to you didn't have to go to dodgy clubs (not saying I've never been to any) where there was potential aggro.

**beaniboy67** · 07-03-2003, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by beaniboy67:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]al "exactly".When i first went clubbing to Ayr pavillion 50% of the crowd was stone island wearing hooligans.Boys Own fanzine was started by hooligans and had a hooligan element back in its early days.

And isnt house music being a part of something. [/QUOTE]The Pavilion was indeed at least 80% casuals, most of them had been frequenting house clubs for a good few years before that... [/QUOTE]Al there was a club in Falkirk called the Glenfinnan suite!!This was around 88 89.I was a little to young to attend but i did go to the next venue they had which was called ""buzztop""it was the same Djs - ian clark-tony aitken!!

Everybody in that club was a casual!!And to be honest there was hardley any trouble.

**danny webb** · 07-03-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by ladyboygrimsby:
Does anybody know what this topic is about any more? It appears to be a long list of non-sequiturs (look it up: they're not for cutting roses with, either)

No I don't think we do, but it is gradually turning into the class topic of 4 weeks ago, thanks to Brans comment.

The one thing I find funny is that it seems somewhat amusing to the US folks when the Brits start on with the class war. I wonder why that is?
I remember the last thread like this & Gman was reading with interest.

**beaniboy67** · 07-03-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]Fcuk, and people slag off London clubs. [img]graemlins/jpshakehead.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Eh? [/QUOTE]at least we have enough choice of clubs so that you don't always have to rub shoulders with the thug element 'hooligans' as you put it [/QUOTE]I still don't get your point. All I'm saying is that hooligans, casuals, had a major presence at early house clubs, across the UK, London included. What's your point? [/QUOTE]As I remember Shoom and High On Hope (heard of them?) didn't suffer a hooligan element.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear - some people are quick to slag off the scene, but we do have CHOICE. So if you didn't want to you didn't have to go to dodgy clubs (not saying I've never been to any) where there was potential aggro. [/QUOTE]Shoom did have a big hooligan element!!Danny Rampling wifewa known for letting people on who like to dance and have a great time!!Hooligans also liked to have a goods time.Infact the decline in soccer casuals in the early 90s was a result of house music.Most of the guys were going out and having the time of their lifes and clubbing and pills were probably the replacement of the buzz that most casuals got when rioting on a foootball terrace or back street in the Uk!!

**Al Kent** · 07-03-2003, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Al Kent:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mah'chew:
like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

Stone Island wearing hooligans made up the vast majority of the crowd when I first went to house clubs up here. [/QUOTE]Fcuk, and people slag off London clubs. [img]graemlins/jpshakehead.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Eh? [/QUOTE]at least we have enough choice of clubs so that you don't always have to rub shoulders with the thug element 'hooligans' as you put it [/QUOTE]I still don't get your point. All I'm saying is that hooligans, casuals, had a major presence at early house clubs, across the UK, London included. What's your point? [/QUOTE]As I remember Shoom and High On Hope (heard of them?) didn't suffer a hooligan element.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear - some people are quick to slag off the scene, but we do have CHOICE. So if you didn't want to you didn't have to go to dodgy clubs (not saying I've never been to any) where there was potential aggro. [/QUOTE]Martin, sorry, we've got our wires crossed - the clubs were full of Casuals (hooligans), but there was never any trouble. Remember Ecstasy?? The clubs didn't "suffer" a hooligan element, they positively benefitted from it. And there was no "potential aggro".

Incidentally, I wasn't there, but I'd be most surprised if Shoom was 100% casual free.

**Digiman** · 07-03-2003, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by ladyboygrimsby:
Does anybody know what this topic is about any more? It appears to be a long list of non-sequiturs (look it up: they're not for cutting roses with, either)

Its OK, I'm sure Martin Red will cut and paste the dictionary.com definition in soon enough.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

**Al Kent** · 07-03-2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by ladyboygrimsby:
Does anybody know what this topic is about any more? It appears to be a long list of non-sequiturs (look it up: they're not for cutting roses with, either)

This is six topics rolled into one. It's a bit like Pulp Fiction. It'll all make sense in a few pages..

**mr startist** · 07-03-2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Mah'chew:
I've just played Todd Edwards - Save my Life, after reaching for my ale out t'side-cupboard of course and must say some of this UKG is pretty good, the earlier stuff of course (pot belly & tash twitching as I say that).

So , let's get away from the argument that revolves around being a wannabe gangstar, wearing the same clothes as the rest of the club, spending your last 20 quid on a bottle of Moet(and probably desperately wanting a larger) and leaving the plastic retailers tag on your shirt..We all do crazy things as kids [img]smile.gif[/img] and some of us still are [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

Seeming as UKG reared it's grade.1 head, let's explore it, let's give it the platform it deserves, who's got some knowledge they want to drop on this?

Like when did the phrase get coined?

I mean for me I was in London and was into the productions of Grant Nelson, I thought he was going to show the way and be the UK's MAW and next thing he's UKG

What happen to him? He should have been a Photek!

He was making distictly UK style garage, but it was fresh and certainly wasn't called UKG, Speed Garage, etc, etc.. Who added the first sub bass-line to take UKG away from Grant's US style flavour house?

Does anyone still listen to his early stuff?

Klubb Vengeance EP, his Audio Sensations EP with Richard Purser.

What about Todd Edwards?

His style is often cited as the originator of the UKG style. However, he's from the USA! There's no disputing his early stuff is fresh, although he stuck to the same formula and it ended up wack. Dig out his Remix of Alabama Blues or Save My Life.

Did an American give us the UKG flavor?

And what about Armand Van Helden's contribution to the structure of so called UK Garage?

Sugar Daddie Oh, Sugar Dadie Oh, Suger Daddie Oh, what part did his works play? Did a Turkish, Dutch, American also give us the UKG flavor?

Does anyone know anything on the subject of UKG?

Did Trevor mention any of this on his show? What was his 10 ten UKG tracks? No doubt they played some MJ Cole

I suspect from what Martin says it was all Moshino, the fact that the kids left the price tags on their shirts for show and Reebok Classic on the number 21A to Vauxhaul with 10 B&H...

If it was then this is an injustice, we need to set the balance and talk about the music - this other stuff is just rubbish and like the Stone Island wearing hooligan it's all just dressing and smacks of desperatly wanting to be part of something through having a uniform...

UKG is/was/can be discuss...

UK Garage or "speed garage" was originally US house played at +8 hence the term "speed garage".

One of the first clubs I actually remember going to playing this was Raw club on a Sunday night. All the other "house" clubs I witnessed before that, I was treated like a drug dealer and then followed all night by security. Which is why I think UK Garage was born. People didn't want to rave with the pilled up Essex boys & get treated like sh*t. The jungle music lovers were looking for something else now the gangster element was moving in. House sounded nice but was a little slow. So I guess it was sped up to keep the people moving.

**beaniboy67** · 07-03-2003, 10:32 AM

Yeh i would also like to ask about this so called class syndrome!!I would probably place myself in the shaun ryder category although i was brought up by good parents and went to school most of the time!!I do sometimes hear people stating "they are a class above the rest here in the Uk but to be honest it doesnt really mean that much to me it also seems to be far more an English thing than a Scottish thing".I myself have recently attended University and completed 5 years in audio Engineeering.I had many different people from different backgrounds and so different classes in my class.The funny thing is that when the final results came through i matched or exceeded most of them by a long way!!Does class really matter??

**martin** · 07-03-2003, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by beaniboy67:
Shoom did have a big hooligan element!!Danny Rampling wifewa known for letting people on who like to dance and have a great time!!Hooligans also liked to have a goods time.Infact the decline in soccer casuals in the early 90s was a result of house music.Most of the guys were going out and having the time of their lifes and clubbing and pills were probably the replacement of the buzz that most casuals got when rioting on a foootball terrace or back street in the Uk!!

Going by your logic anyone who likes to dance and have a good time is a hooligan, am I understanding you correctly? Maybe your concept of hooligans and mine differ. I don't remember seeing hooligans in Shoom, do you?

**Bran (Bad attitude and from London)** · 07-03-2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by beaniboy67:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bran W:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Albert Square:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by danny webb:
here is an easy to use class distinction formula:

Working - Shaun Ryder
Middle - Tim (sap) Henman
Upper - Harry n Wills

I am in the first section = northern monkey

I'd say I was somewhere between a Tim and a Shaun. Maybe a lower Timmy? Its hard to say. [/QUOTE]Yes, the term Lower Middle Class does exist, for you people like you. [/QUOTE]can i ask what you mean by the term Lower Middle Class does exist, for you people like you. [/QUOTE][/QB][/QUOTE]

It was simply a joke, i didn't think i'd have to eplain but there you have it.

**Jolyon** · 07-03-2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by beaniboy67:
Shoom did have a big hooligan element!!Danny Rampling wifewa known for letting people on who like to dance and have a great time!!Hooligans also liked to have a goods time.Infact the decline in soccer casuals in the early 90s was a result of house music.Most of the guys were going out and having the time of their lifes and clubbing and pills were probably the replacement of the buzz that most casuals got when rioting on a foootball terrace or back street in the Uk!!

Going by your logic anyone who likes to dance and have a good time is a hooligan, am I understanding you correctly? Maybe your concept of hooligans and mine differ. I don't remember seeing hooligans in Shoom, do you? [/QUOTE]I think you're right martin - it was some of the other early acid house clubs that were more 'casual', as I'm told by former Shoomers.

**martin** · 07-03-2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by beaniboy67:
Yeh i would also like to ask about this so called class syndrome!!I would probably place myself in the shaun ryder category although i was brought up by good parents and went to school most of the time!!I do sometimes hear people stating "they are a class above the rest here in the Uk but to be honest it doesnt really mean that much to me it also seems to be far more an English thing than a Scottish thing".I myself have recently attended University and completed 5 years in audio Engineeering.I had many different people from different backgrounds and so different classes in my class.The funny thing is that when the final results came through i matched or exceeded most of them by a long way!!Does class really matter??

Exactly. Does it really matter today? Some people want to harp on about it(and perpetuate it) but it is fairly irrelevant today. I honestly don't know what class I am. The ShaunRyder/TimHenman/Wills definitions are obviously a joke, and those people who are usually quick to make everything (ok an exaggeration) in to a class issue cannot give a credible and relevant definition.

**martin** · 07-03-2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Jolyon:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by martin s:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by beaniboy67:
Shoom did have a big hooligan element!!Danny Rampling wifewa known for letting people on who like to dance and have a great time!!Hooligans also liked to have a goods time.Infact the decline in soccer casuals in the early 90s was a result of house music.Most of the guys were going out and having the time of their lifes and clubbing and pills were probably the replacement of the buzz that most casuals got when rioting on a foootball terrace or back street in the Uk!!

Going by your logic anyone who likes to dance and have a good time is a hooligan, am I understanding you correctly? Maybe your concept of hooligans and mine differ. I don't remember seeing hooligans in Shoom, do you? [/QUOTE]I think you're right martin - it was some of the other early acid house clubs that were more 'casual', as I'm told by former Shoomers. [/QUOTE]Thank you. The reason Shoom went down in history was not just because it was ground-breaking, but because it was different from your average house club. Same with High On Hope.

**danny webb** · 07-03-2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by martin s:

Exactly. Does it really matter today? Some people want to harp on about it(and perpetuate it) but it is fairly irrelevant today. I honestly don't know what class I am. The ShaunRyder/TimHenman/Wills definitions are obviously a joke, and those people who are usually quick to make everything (ok an exaggeration) in to a class issue cannot give a credible and relevant definition. [/QUOTE]

I think Bran actually knows, he could determine (possibly by spelling mistakes ;) ), the class of the people he was replying to?

**Martin Red** · 07-03-2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by beaniboy67:
Yeh i would also like to ask about this so called class syndrome!!I would probably place myself in the shaun ryder category although i was brought up by good parents and went to school most of the time!!I do sometimes hear people stating "they are a class above the rest here in the Uk but to be honest it doesnt really mean that much to me it also seems to be far more an English thing than a Scottish thing".I myself have recently attended University and completed 5 years in audio Engineeering.I had many different people from different backgrounds and so different classes in my class.The funny thing is that when the final results came through i matched or exceeded most of them by a long way!!Does class really matter??

No, unless you want to be part of certain clubs, clicks, then you'll find out your name ain't down...

Yes.

At the top of the tree Monarchy, that's an great example for modern living - what ****ibng year we in ? i want to see a spike go through the monarch eyeball, the bitch should not be proud of what she stands for but she is isn't she proud as punch

... and that dribbles down through society. English people can be proper snobs sometimes. Of course when different people of class get on it is beutifull meeting and the barriers are brought down, just be carefull your not being used as an urban guide.

Usually, the time the twain meet is on certain terms usually through someones urban adventures into the city. Or while they are students going for a life experience as living in certain protected village areas can be really boring and gives no life fibre, therefore move to Salford so you can impress your dull friends at dinner parties later in life, oh yeah Sebastian and me went to an illegal party and brought some pot [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

In England sometimes you can go into a country boozer and see the welcome, especially if your black or asian, I have seen the look of disdaine, the area has really gone down hill now darling.

[ July 03, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

Thread: TREVOR NELSON SUCKS - Soul Nation Part 3 on UK TV and the fcuk'd scene in UK - Soul ?

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions