Just a reminder

[Tenyu]

Originally posted by 2121:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by konbit:
I smoke.

However, if this law keeps even one bartender from dying, then it is a good one.

this is such an over-exaggeration + if they took the chemicals out of the 'tobacco' it would be far far less dangerous.

</font>[/QUOTE]and the cigarettes that claim to be all natural additive free taste like complete crap.

[dVine]

Originally posted by Tenyu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 2121:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by konbit:
I smoke.

However, if this law keeps even one bartender from dying, then it is a good one.

this is such an over-exaggeration + if they took the chemicals out of the 'tobacco' it would be far far less dangerous.

</font>[/QUOTE]and the cigarettes that claim to be all natural additive free taste like complete crap. </font>[/QUOTE]It's the chemicals that kill, not the tobacco, so yes, they taste like crap but they're much healthier. I roll my own with imported German tobacco that you can get flavoured with vanilla/cherry/strawberry which will never replace my beloved reg. cigarettes but at least I can still go running every day without risking a heart attack.

[martin]

I have to post up my smoking policy to comply with legislation (smoking is allowed throughout). I think that a complete ban is taking things a bit far and that it should be left up to the individual to make an informed decision. If you're aware that a venue is not smoke-free then surely you should be able to choose whether you enter or not, this also applies to employees (I have to pay more for life insurance because of my profession and I am aware of the risks.) If you choose to ban it then you should have the right to.
It's also a very powerful addiction and smokers should not ostracised. Things should be moving in the other direction and addictions to substances should not be brushed under the carpet. Just my 2 penneth worth.

[Wild i]

Is smoking still allowed on the DHP? Are there plans to regulate members? Will the ban apply to regular posters or will it apply to lurkers as well?

Seriously, I understand that many people abhor cigarette smoke, so I say they should stay out of the clubs or go to clubs that are big enough to have smoking/no smoking sections.

As for barkeeps and musicians, they have an old saying in the Navy: "Choose your rate (job), choose your fate." So if you hate cigarette smoke, don't become a bartender, for goodness sake. I hate dealing with numbers, so I stay away from accounting as a career. I didn't become a waitress because there's no way I can stand up all day. I'm not considering becoming a DJ because I don't like my music that loud.

People need to take some personal responsibility!

[Tenyu]

Originally posted by Wild i:
Is smoking still allowed on the DHP? Are there plans to regulate members? Will the ban apply to regular posters or will it apply to lurkers as well?

Seriously, I understand that many people abhor cigarette smoke, so I say they should stay out of the clubs or go to clubs that are big enough to have smoking/no smoking sections.

As for barkeeps and musicians, they have an old saying in the Navy: "Choose your rate (job), choose your fate." So if you hate cigarette smoke, don't become a bartender, for goodness sake. I hate dealing with numbers, so I stay away from accounting as a career. I didn't become a waitress because there's no way I can stand up all day. I'm not considering becoming a DJ because I don't like my music that loud.

People need to take some personal responsibility!

the service industry didn't want this, we're not complaining, this is Bloomberg tyranny

[dVine]

Originally posted by Wild i:
Is smoking still allowed on the DHP? Are there plans to regulate members? Will the ban apply to regular posters or will it apply to lurkers as well?

Seriously, I understand that many people abhor cigarette smoke, so I say they should stay out of the clubs or go to clubs that are big enough to have smoking/no smoking sections.

As for barkeeps and musicians, they have an old saying in the Navy: "Choose your rate (job), choose your fate." So if you hate cigarette smoke, don't become a bartender, for goodness sake. I hate dealing with numbers, so I stay away from accounting as a career. I didn't become a waitress because there's no way I can stand up all day. I'm not considering becoming a DJ because I don't like my music that loud.

People need to take some personal responsibility!

Finally, some sanity on the DHP.

Really, I think its ex-smokers who're pushing for this more than anyone. The addiction is obviously powerful, so powerful that some want it completely banned, even in outdoor spaces (I do not lie).

I tried debating this topic the other day, defending the right to have a smoking section and that point wasn't even acknowledged except for one response claiming that the odour 'travels'. I'd also like to mention that this discourse comes from weed smokers who'd light up in a heartbeat if it was legal.

Like I said, I think its ex-smokers who can't handle their continued addiction fueling this moronic law.

[Jolyon]

Next time I come to NYC I'm wearing Nicotine patches. You can't have a drink without a smoke...I can't believe this crazy law. This would never happen here, there'd be uproar.

[Wild i]

[quote]Originally posted by dVine:

Originally posted by Wild i:
[qb] I tried debating this topic the other day, defending the right to have a smoking section and that point wasn't even acknowledged except for one response claiming that the odour 'travels'.

What gets me is the people who cough the loudest when you light up are the same fools you see jogging along side the FDR or West Street during rush hour.

[dVine]

Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dVine:

Originally posted by Wild i:
[qb] I tried debating this topic the other day, defending the right to have a smoking section and that point wasn't even acknowledged except for one response claiming that the odour 'travels'.

What gets me is the people who cough the loudest when you light up are the same fools you see jogging along side the FDR or West Street during rush hour. </font>

how 'bout the ones drinking diet coke with their super-sized big mac combo?

[img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[konbit]

Originally posted by dVine:
It's the chemicals that kill, not the tobacco ...but at least I can still go running every day without risking a heart attack.

WRONG.

[dVine]

Originally posted by konbit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dVine:
It's the chemicals that kill, not the tobacco ...but at least I can still go running every day without risking a heart attack.

WRONG. </font>[/QUOTE]The chemicals penetrate into the porous lining of the lungs causing cell mutations. If it was the smoke per se, people would be dropping all over from car exhaust.

[konbit]

Popular 'natural' smokes still harmful

By Nancy Motherway
Arizona Daily Wildcat
March 18, 1996


In a time when consumers are choosing organic foods and dye-free detergents, more smokers are going "natural" with their choice of cigarettes.

The trend began 10 years ago when Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company introduced Natural American Spirit, a new "natural" additive-free cigarette with whole leaf rather than reconstituted tobacco which does not contain the stems, flavorings and humectants found in regular cigarettes, said Robin Sommers, President and CEO of the Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company.

Natural American Spirit and Sherman's, the additive-free cigarettes available locally, also cost 25 to 75 cents more per pack than the regular brands.

"They are selling well because they're additive-free. They taste better and they last longer," said Kent Progar, cashier at the Crescent Smoke Shop, 216 E. Congress.

"Many of our customers report that not only is the taste different, but the entire smoking experience is different," Sommers said.

The main difference in taste may be attributed to the absence of chemical components, he said.

A UA Student Health Services annual survey conducted last March found that 21 percent of all students smoke tobacco from once a week up to more than half a pack per day.

In a demographic survey taken in December 1993, Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company found that 16.4 percent of Natural American Spirit cigarette smokers are under 30 while the bulk of its users are between 30 and 39 at 28.3 percent usage.

Smokers may think they are living a healthier lifestyle by switching to brands such as Natural American Spirit and Sherman's. But the promotional descriptions on the sides of additive-free cigarette cartons do not make any claims that they are healthier than regular cigarettes.

Scott J. Leischow, assistant professor of family and community medicine at the University of Arizona, said that smoking additive-free cigarettes will do nothing to improve a smoker's health.

"Any smoke, anything that burns that you inhale, whether it's cigarette smoke, pot smoke or the so-called 'natural' tobacco products,

is going to be harmful to the lungs," said Leischow, director of the Arizona Program for Nicotine and Tobacco Research.

Eventually, smoking damages the lungs enough so that it impedes the ability to exchange oxygen, leading to such lung diseases as lung cancer and emphysema, he said.

Although the major benefit of natural cigarettes is that they have none of the additives that are put into regular cigarettes, there is no evidence that shows they decrease the occurrence of health problems associated with the use of regular cigarettes, Leischow said.

By switching to additive-free cigarettes, smokers are spending more money than they would on regular cigarettes for a product that will harm their body just as much, he said.

While anti-smoking activists warn smokers that additive-free cigarettes are not any healthier than the regular brands, many users simply relish the better smoke of the natural cigarettes.

Johnna Gale, restaurant manager of Tooley's, 299 S. Park Ave., said when she goes back to Camel and Marlboro cigarettes it "just isn't the same."

"These burn slower than cigarettes," she said, referring to the Natural American Spirit cigarettes she had just purchased.

Psychology freshman Allison Branstad agreed: "I usually smoke Camels, but (Natural) American Spirits are good."

[konbit]

Originally posted by dVine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by konbit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dVine:
It's the chemicals that kill, not the tobacco ...but at least I can still go running every day without risking a heart attack.

WRONG. </font>[/QUOTE]The chemicals penetrate into the porous lining of the lungs causing cell mutations. If it was the smoke per se, people would be dropping all over from car exhaust. </font>[/QUOTE]Go suck on a tailpipe, and see how long you last.

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by dVine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by konbit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dVine:
It's the chemicals that kill, not the tobacco ...but at least I can still go running every day without risking a heart attack.

WRONG. </font>[/QUOTE]The chemicals penetrate into the porous lining of the lungs causing cell mutations. If it was the smoke per se, people would be dropping all over from car exhaust. </font>[/QUOTE]Hi

[dVine]

oh no, don't pull out articles on me now kuntbit.

how weak.

Here's one supporting my viewpoint:

THE TOXINS IN CIGARETTES
Copyright © Ron Harder 2001


I had occasion to visit a local hospital recently, and while waiting in the emergency ward I noticed a large poster on the wall with the headline "What The Tobacco Industry Is Hiding In Cigarettes". It contained a picture of a cigarette, and it had a large amount of text indicating the various compounds that this cigarette contained.

According to this poster, which was produced by the Department Of Health, there are many toxic compounds that the tobacco industry is hiding in cigarettes, and some of them will surprise you.

We have been told that cigarette smoke causes cancer, and that it kills. In this article I would like to make you aware of some of the chemicals found in cigarette smoke that make it so deadly. Here are eleven of the most toxic.

Acetone - A flammable, colorless liquid used as a solvent. It's one of the active ingredients in nail polish remover. The tobacco industry refuses to say how acetone gets into cigarettes.

Ammonia - A colorless, pungent gas. The tobacco industry says that it adds flavor, but scientists have discovered that ammonia helps you absorb more nicotine - keeping you hooked on smoking.

Arsenic - A silvery-white very poisonous chemical element. This deadly poison is used to make insecticides, and it is also used to kill gophers and rats.

Benzene - A flammable liquid obtained from coal tar and used as a solvent. This cancer-causing chemical is used to make everything from pesticides to detergent to gasoline.

Benzoapyrene - A yellow crystalline carcinogenic hydrocarbon found in coal tar and cigarette smoke. It's one of the most potent cancer-causing chemicals in the world.

Butane - A hydrocarbon used as a fuel. Highly flammable butane is one of the key ingredients in gasoline.

Cadmium - A metallic chemical element used in alloys. This toxic metal causes damage to the liver, kidneys, and the brain; and stays in your body for years.

Formaldehyde - A colorless pungent gas used in solution as a disinfectant and preservative. It causes cancer; damages your lungs, skin and digestive system. Embalmers use it to preserve dead bodies.

Lead - A heavy bluish-gray metallic chemical element. This toxic heavy metal causes lead poisoning, which stunts your growth, and damages your brain. It can easily kill you.

Propylene Glycol - A sweet hygroscopic viscous liquid used as antifreeze and as a solvent in brake fluid. The tobacco industry claims they add it to keep cheap "reconstituted tobacco" from drying out, but scientists say it aids in the delivery of nicotine (tobaccos active drug) to the brain.

Turpentine - A colorless volatile oil. Turpentine is very toxic and is commonly used as a paint thinner.

The toxic chemicals mentioned above are what you are putting into your body when you smoke, and when you draw this smoke into your lungs, your body has absolutely no chance to defend itself from these chemicals.

When you inhale, these toxins are drawn into your lungs, through the porous lining of your lungs, and directly into your blood stream. From your blood stream these chemicals are delivered to every cell of your body.

In order for the cells of your body to be healthy they have to receive a steady supply of nourishment, but if what they are receiving are toxic chemicals instead of nourishment, the tissues and organs of your body will be weakened to the point where they will become very susceptible to disease.

The most likely disease that you will then develop is cancer. This is because cigarette smoke contains some of the most carcinogenic (cancer causing) compounds known to man.

Even though cigarette smoke is not the underlying cause of lung and other forms of cancers, it certainly is a major contributing factor.

You may have thought that the cancer you develop as a result of smoking cigarettes will only be limited to your lungs, but that is not so, the cancer can develop anywhere in your body. This occurs because all the cells in your body are affected by the carcinogenic compounds that are delivered through your blood stream.

Cigarette smoke causes a great deal of harm to those who smoke, but it can cause even more harm to those who obtain this smoke second-hand. The person who smokes inhales his smoke through a filter that removes some of the toxic compounds, but the person who inhales the smoke coming directly from the cigarette does not have this advantage.

Children are especially vulnerable to second-hand smoke. Most of the time they do not have a choice as to whether or not they inhale these fumes, the adults around them make this decision for them. If you have children at home please keep the air that they breathe as pure as possible. Keep in mind the tremendous amount of harm that can be done by these toxic chemicals, and keep these chemicals away from your loved ones.

Your lungs may be the most affected by these toxins, but your heart is a very close second. Your heart has direct contact with all the blood in your body, and therefore, after your lungs, the cells of your heart will be the most susceptible.

Another very important item to consider is this, cigarette smoke is a major cause of free radical production in your body, and therefore can cause an endless number of diseases to develop, with heart disease being at the top of the list. Also, free radicals are proving to be responsible for causing your body to age.

Now you can see why cigarette smoke causes such an incredible amount of harm, and why the damage that it causes goes way beyond your lungs. Every cell of your body is affected by the toxins that are found in cigarette smoke.

For anyone who still smokes, I hope that this article has given you some added incentive to quit. The nicotine found in cigarettes is extremely addictive, and you may wish to consult your doctor or other health care professional to help you kick this deadly habit.

Other articles by Ron Harder are available at www.shift.to/health/

This article was written by Ron Harder, Nutritional Health Consultant, Iridologist, and Author of "How To Defeat Cancer - Naturally - without Chemo, Radiation, or Surgery". For more health information please visit his web site at http://www.defeatcancer.ca

[Tenyu]

you can smoke in banks, public schools, all cafes, arenas, hospitals, planes, private bus companies, basically everywhere besides the public mass transit systems in most Mediterranean countries, yet on a whole they are living much longer than the majority of americans. lets prioritize before we get all sensationalist on truly pure smoking tobacco, aaaiiiii, our discussion should be focused on the quality of what we're smoking as Dvine posted, contrary to Konbit's belief, the tobacco companies have a much different and far superior production line for the european market. i started smoking marlboro reds when i moved to spain and when i came back a year later and bought my first pack here in the states, i almost puked because the american marlboro's tasted like pure shit in comparison, like i was puffin on a tailpipe. i couldn't believe that bullshit. now the only real prerolled cigarette i could find here were chesterfields by the last time proven independent, ligget company that was eventually bought out by phillip morris a couple years ago. more bullshit. now i resort to smoking camel filters soft pack(different production line once again to camel filter hard pack which targets a younger consumer that dont carry their packs in their shirt pockets like old people, who may just be used to fewer chemicals in their cigarettes, do) but some opinions from real smokers about quality tobacco would be appreciated...

ps. american spirits suck
pss. american marlboro lights are pure evil

[Tenyu]

[img]smokin.gif[/img]

[Red D]

Originally posted by dVine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tenyu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 2121:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by konbit:
I smoke.

However, if this law keeps even one bartender from dying, then it is a good one.

this is such an over-exaggeration + if they took the chemicals out of the 'tobacco' it would be far far less dangerous.

</font>[/QUOTE]and the cigarettes that claim to be all natural additive free taste like complete crap. </font>[/QUOTE]It's the chemicals that kill, not the tobacco, so yes, they taste like crap but they're much healthier. I roll my own with imported German tobacco that you can get flavoured with vanilla/cherry/strawberry which will never replace my beloved reg. cigarettes but at least I can still go running every day without risking a heart attack. </font>[/QUOTE]Ever considered not smoking? I imagine it kinda helps your cause.

RD

[Martin Red]

Since car exhausts where mentioned, next time you drive fast and use the anchors think about the brake dust which contains asbestos, you can see it making your shiny alloys dull. Cancer dust.

[ April 02, 2003, 04:26 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[Martin Red]

Originally posted by dVine:
For anyone who still smokes, I hope that this article has given you some added incentive to quit. The nicotine found in cigarettes is extremely addictive, and you may wish to consult your doctor or other health care professional to help you kick this deadly habit.

Thanks for the concern, the problem is that Nicotine is more addictive than Heroin , so I doubt an article will put us off, thanks for the concern though.

P.S : - f they put fags (Cigarettes) up any more in price, people in the UK will be breaking in homes to support the habit. It's a drug people are addicted.
also

TWO WORDS

JIM FIX

[ April 02, 2003, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: Martin Red ]

[martin]

Originally posted by dVine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dVine:

Originally posted by Wild i:
[qb] I tried debating this topic the other day, defending the right to have a smoking section and that point wasn't even acknowledged except for one response claiming that the odour 'travels'.

What gets me is the people who cough the loudest when you light up are the same fools you see jogging along side the FDR or West Street during rush hour. </font>

how 'bout the ones drinking diet coke with their super-sized big mac combo?

[img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Like the cyclists who wear face-masks to protect against pollution but don't wear a helmet [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]