Newsweek article on Black Women

[Fletch]

Very interesting read. What are your thoughts?

www.msnbc.com/news/875614.asp?0dm=-209k

[Friday]

What an article...I sense much sadness. So many paralles......Where's Ashaki?

[Ron la Rock]

I was on the set 4 that 1 minute i was trilled 2 see this next my blood was boiling
very interesting indeed learned a lots and it left many many more questions about the values
black men & women place on each other
and intercommunal relationships

therr also were much praise 4 black fathers from many of the women on the panel

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Originally posted by einnod23:
Very interesting read. What are your thoughts?

www.msnbc.com/news/875614.asp?0dm=-209k

\
Good article and I also learned the editor in chief is Black

[music]

the brother is young; saw him on cnn. also, have a little respect for ellis cose. don't agree much w/ him.

[ March 05, 2003, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: music ]

[MyNia]

I went out and picked up Newsweek because I heard about this cover story. I found it to be an interesting read and like someone said a bit sad at some points. What I really want to hear is the point of view of the black men. Not the one making it big in corporate america but the average brotha. The one that it seems that some of these ladies disqualified because of the potential of the drama before finding out first hand if he can handle not bringing home the bigger check. I also wondered if these women were hesitant of getting involved with a man that didn't bring home as much bacon for fear of being taken for the ride of their lives.

[mhd]

leslie posted this too, last week i think

if you read this article and the thread on child support together its a miracle people even get married.

when i was in law school, i hung out with these women who were in medical school, about 5 or 6 of them and they were constantly talking smack about how guys would not be able to hang with them when they started making loot, so they were kinda programming themselves from the start.

on the other hand, many brothers have a hard time seeing women as equals, let alone making more loot than they are or they can. cats that are insecure will never be able handle that situation. money is important but not the only important thing, but when conflict arises the money plays a huge role.
the funny thing is women getting more education and making more money than brothers is nothing new

[f0reverneverm0re]

so marrying an *African* man is not an option for certain Black american women? or are the stats for the African brothers pretty much the same as the Black-american males?

maybe getting a personal mini-you can help conquer the loneliness

[Wild i]

I'm no expert on straight relationships (actually I am, but that's the disclaimer), but in my family every single man has gone to college and been excellent students. However, Tee was the only one to graduate and his lower level (AS) degree was conferred postumously. By contrast, almost every woman in my generation [in my family] has completed college and most have gone on to grad school.

I've often wondered what was the dicotomy that seemed to inhibit Black men from completing college. We're hoping for better things for this current college-age generation.

“Oftentimes women go into higher education and beyond because they can’t depend on anyone else to support them or their children,” Evans points out. And whereas boys typically lack focus, girls show up with a sense of purpose. “Females had no excuses about anything,” says Kevin Cook,

I think this statement speaks volumes about the reasons why sisters carry on and move up, even as their men lag behind.

I do know from experience that it can be difficult to be involved with someone who is not as financially or educationally successful. There can be resentment on both sides ("I'm bringing in most of the money and you're complaining about having to pay the cable bill." "You don't say it, but I know you think you're better than me because you have a degree.") These problems can only escalate at the higher executive level and the widening gap.

Good luck, my sisters.

_________________________________________________

P.S. Please tell me that is not Mariah Scarey on the cover on the left and that she is not now passing herself off as Black!

[ March 06, 2003, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Wild i ]

[Koffy Brown]

This article has been the topic of every talk radio station here...

divide and conquer...and it's working

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Very Interesting and not surprised. This sort of thing goes way back to the Willie Lynch speech (letter)to slave owners. The Black men are stripped of what they have, the Black women pick up the pieces become the stronger sex and through generations we have helped society believe that our men are not worth the time. The educational system deters alot of men as well. In school the black girls are encouraged to learn as much as they can and the Black boys learn how to be atheletes, just as someone stated in the article.

When in a relationship one should not be concerned about who hold what type of job or what. If some of us sistahs learned to keep that under wraps for the most intimate moments, then some men won't feel intimidated.

All I am saying is get to know each other first before telling all the business. Stop trying to get into his bank account and assets before getting to know him. Of course that goes for the men as well. It's all about basic dating.

We get too wrapped up into ourselves that we are more concerned about what can you do for me than how can we be down for each other.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by DiscoLady:
Very Interesting and not surprised. This sort of thing goes way back to the Willie Lynch speech (letter)to slave owners. The Black men are stripped of what they have, the Black women pick up the pieces become the stronger sex and through generations we have helped society believe that our men are not worth the time. The educational system deters alot of men as well. In school the black girls are encouraged to learn as much as they can and the Black boys learn how to be atheletes, just as someone stated in the article.

When in a relationship one should not be concerned about who hold what type of job or what. If some of us sistahs learned to keep that under wraps for the most intimate moments, then some men won't feel intimidated.

All I am saying is get to know each other first before telling all the business. Stop trying to get into his bank account and assets before getting to know him. Of course that goes for the men as well. It's all about basic dating.

We get too wrapped up into ourselves that we are more concerned about what can you do for me than how can we be down for each other.

un huh...but society says.........that is what happened...

[TAC]

Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Doctor of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TAC

[ March 06, 2003, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: TAC ]

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TAC

the point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TAC

the point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...</font>[/QUOTE]trust me, there are a lot of black men in higher education, there are more black women, but the brothers are there. relationships succeed or fail for a whole lot of reasons

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DiscoLady:
Very Interesting and not surprised. This sort of thing goes way back to the Willie Lynch speech (letter)to slave owners. The Black men are stripped of what they have, the Black women pick up the pieces become the stronger sex and through generations we have helped society believe that our men are not worth the time. The educational system deters alot of men as well. In school the black girls are encouraged to learn as much as they can and the Black boys learn how to be atheletes, just as someone stated in the article.

When in a relationship one should not be concerned about who hold what type of job or what. If some of us sistahs learned to keep that under wraps for the most intimate moments, then some men won't feel intimidated.

All I am saying is get to know each other first before telling all the business. Stop trying to get into his bank account and assets before getting to know him. Of course that goes for the men as well. It's all about basic dating.

We get too wrapped up into ourselves that we are more concerned about what can you do for me than how can we be down for each other.

un huh...but society says.........that is what happened...</font>[/QUOTE]Yep alot us listen to society instead and want to be like our non-colored counterparts.

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TAC

the point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...</font>[/QUOTE]trust me, there are a lot of black men in higher education, there are more black women, but the brothers are there. relationships succeed or fail for a whole lot of reasons</font>[/QUOTE]not saying that there aren't black men there, but obviously not enough to equate to the black women that are there...this is real...and are they marrying black women...let's not go there again

[mhd]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TAC:
Ya'll need to stop buying into the crap that the media puts b/4 u.

Me: Bachelor of Science Electrical Engineering Syracuse university

Docter of Jurisprudence
Syracuse university.

My spouse:
Bachelor of Fine Arts
Syracuse university

Masters in Management
Northwestern University

I'm Blec', she's blec'!

I'll be back to run my "trap" (i.e., fingers :D ) I have a meeting to go to...

Peace
TAC

the point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...</font>[/QUOTE]trust me, there are a lot of black men in higher education, there are more black women, but the brothers are there. relationships succeed or fail for a whole lot of reasons</font>[/QUOTE]not saying that there aren't black men there, but obviously not enough to equate to the black women that are there...this is real...and are they marrying black women...let's not go there again</font>[/QUOTE]a lot of them that want families are marrying black women, but the fact of the matter is brothers realize that they have a lot of options, and they delay marriage to play around.

but let me give you the flip side. many of the corporate women get married and drop out of the workplace and expect/demand that the brother provide the sole support for their lifestyle, which was previously based on two six figure incomes. some cats can handle, some can't

[richierich]

I believe that when a sister meets a man that truely appeals to her womanhood all of that "I make more money than him", shit will go out or the window. How many of these upwardly mobile brothers actually have the character that a woman wants. I believe that the sisters just want a Good man. What he makes don't really mean shit if she Really likes him. I aint talking about a completely broke lazy do nothin' ass man but a brother who busts his ass everyday and makes her feel like she's really special and treats her with respect should have no problem. Hell every woman that I've been seriously involved with has been more formally educated and made way more cheddar than me. They didn't seem to have any problems dating me and vice versa. The subject of money was never an issue, she had hers and I had mine. I am no way intimidated by a sister that makes more money than me, because in the final scope of it she's a Woman and wants a Man to just Be a Man. If she makes 75k and I make only 25k then together we've got 100k, that's the way I see it and vice versa.
Peace

[ March 06, 2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: richierich ]

[Koffy Brown]

Originally posted by richierich:
I believe that when a sister meets a man that truely appeals to her womanhood all of that I make more money than him shit will go out or the window. H ow many of these upwardly mobile brothers actually have the character that a woman wants. I believe that thae sisters just want a good man. What he makes don't really mean shit if she really likes him. I aint talking about a completely broke lazy do nothin' ass man but a brother who busts his ass everyday and makes her feel like she's really special and treats her with respect should have no problem. Hell every woman that I' ve been seriously involved in has been more formally educated and made way more cheddar than me. They didn't seem to have any problems dating me and vice versa. The sugject of money was never an issue she had hers and I had mine. I am no way intimidated by a sister trhat makes more money than me, because in the final scope of it she's a woman and wants a man to just be a man. If she makes 75k and I make only 25k then together we've got 100k, that's the way I see it and vice versa.

pow dow....dere it is...

BROTHERS STEP UP TO THE PLATE

[mhd]

Originally posted by richierich:
I believe that when a sister meets a man that truely appeals to her womanhood all of that I make more money than him shit will go out or the window. H ow many of these upwardly mobile brothers actually have the character that a woman wants. I believe that thae sisters just want a good man. What he makes don't really mean shit if she really likes him. I aint talking about a completely broke lazy do nothin' ass man but a brother who busts his ass everyday and makes her feel like she's really special and treats her with respect should have no problem. Hell every woman that I' ve been seriously involved in has been more formally educated and made way more cheddar than me. They didn't seem to have any problems dating me and vice versa. The sugject of money was never an issue she had hers and I had mine. I am no way intimidated by a sister trhat makes more money than me, because in the final scope of it she's a woman and wants a man to just be a man. If she makes 75k and I make only 25k then together we've got 100k, that's the way I see it and vice versa.

exactly, a good brother is a good brother, period. too many women can't see beyond the money part and want to flex on that issue alone, to the detriment of the bigger picture

[LEONARD REMIX RROY]

Originally posted by mynia:
I went out and picked up Newsweek because I heard about this cover story. I found it to be an interesting read and like someone said a bit sad at some points. What I really want to hear is the point of view of the black men. Not the one making it big in corporate america but the average brotha. The one that it seems that some of these ladies disqualified because of the potential of the drama before finding out first hand if he can handle not bringing home the bigger check. I also wondered if these women were hesitant of getting involved with a man that didn't bring home as much bacon for fear of being taken for the ride of their lives.

You are one of the most unique & honest women that I have met in years. Your focus is on point and for that reason alone...men tend to do whatever they can for you. Some women can't buy or sex their way into a man mind, some can't command to respect that you recieve just from the conversation you engauge in.

You should write a book and help these sistas out.

[TAC]

Originally posted by Ashaki:the point is how many other brothers were in your graduating class...the whole basis behind the study was that black women were climbing the corporate ladder faster than black men, pretty much leaving them behind and not giving them too many options to choose from when it comes to dating black men...

I think DiscoLady is right...but society through the media have us thinking that there are certain criteria's to being "the man" and "the woman" in the relationship. I see you married someone pretty much on the same educational level as you...[/QB]

No the picture they painted was one of bleakness. I just don’t buy into that crap. Most of the females that I saw in school had suitors; a lot of them are now married with families. The problem is that some of the women are too damn picky.

Age brings wisdom. There are not many young women that realize they should be chasing the bookworms and unrefined brothers because they are the ones that grow up to be swans. Instead, they hang with the fast ones and the flash. Don’t tell me that is not true, because this still holds to this day. You pull up in the gear and the phat ride, and the women are all jumping like “dey coochie itch.” (Happened when I pulled up to valet parking at Dream down in DC.) Superficial b*llsh*t. That’s why I ditched the flash, and walk around looking like a hermit. Plus, we went business casual year round so that contributed to it somewhat. Therefore, you would not know me from Adam. I can say hello to someone on the street, and I get a turned up nose. I laugh…the joke is on them

But returning to my thoughts, and the subject at hand, it never fails. The bottom line is that there have always been fewer males than women in society. Nature designed it that way. You don’t see a pride of lions with a whole bunch of bulls do you? Also, we as humans have built in sociological population controls that we exercise. Did you know that whenever the male population expands beyond a certain level, wars usually break out to wipe out some of the men?

Regardless, one of the big problems that I see with women is their own personal expectations of what their “prince charming” must look like, be, and the like. If they were to toss all the idealisms, and get beneath the superficial sh*t, “they” most probably would increase their chances of finding the man that “they” so desperately crave.

Man, don’t get me started up in here. FWIW, my wife met me years before we went to grad school. The growth has come while we have been together. Funny thing is she thought I was one of those “Engineering Nerds” that she heard about. Well how about that, turns out I’m taking her on what can be considered the ride of her life!!

Peace
TAC

[Wild i]

Originally posted by TAC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />..

No the picture they painted was one of bleakness. I just don’t buy into that crap. Most of the females that I saw in school had suitors; a lot of them are now married with families. The problem is that some of the women are too damn picky.

Age brings wisdom. There are not many young women that realize they should be chasing the bookworms and unrefined brothers because they are the ones that grow up to be swans. Instead, they hang with the fast ones and the flash. Don’t tell me that is not true, because this still holds to this day. You pull up in the gear and the phat ride, and the women are all jumping like “dey coochie itch.” (Happened when I pulled up to valet parking at Dream down in DC.) Superficial b*llsh*t. That’s why I ditched the flash, and walk around looking like a hermit. Plus, we went business casual year round so that contributed to it somewhat. Therefore, you would not know me from Adam. I can say hello to someone on the street, and I get a turned up nose. I laugh…the joke is on them

But returning to my thoughts, and the subject at hand, it never fails. The bottom line is that there have always been fewer males than women in society. Nature designed it that way. You don’t see a pride of lions with a whole bunch of bulls do you? Also, we as humans have built in sociological population controls that we exercise. Did you know that whenever the male population expands beyond a certain level, wars usually break out to wipe out some of the men?

Regardless, one of the big problems that I see with women is their own personal expectations of what their “prince charming” must look like, be, and the like. If they were to toss all the idealisms, and get beneath the superficial sh*t, “they” most probably would increase their chances of finding the man that “they” so desperately crave.

Man, don’t get me started up in here. FWIW, my wife met me years before we went to grad school. The growth has come while we have been together. Funny thing is she thought I was one of those “Engineering Nerds” that she heard about. Well how about that, turns out I’m taking her on what can be considered the ride of her life!!

Peace
TAC[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]TAC, everything you said can be equally applied to men. Having always been a plain Jane and "Big boned," I can tell you that the same thing exists on the other side of the coin. Many, many men are looking for trophy wives, just as many women are looking for trophy husbands. This applies to any economic level. But as you say, with age comes wisdom and as we grow older we tend to consider the inside more important than the trappings.

You also raised the point that women always outnumber men. If you add to that imbalance a society that undervalues Black men and disportionately imprisons them (either inside jail or in a socio-economic quagmire), and you're left with a very bleak picture for the sister who strives for success and wants to share it with a peer.

You and your wife are very fortunate to have found each other. I truly hope your marriage lasts forever. But if, God forbid, it doesn't, I can almost guarantee that she will have a more difficult time finding someone new than you (this, based solely on proportions of equals, not taking into consideration your ugly mug and body odor [img]graemlins/remybussi.gif[/img] ). Okay, a little joke...

But seriously, I have witnessed many occasions where a brother is attracted to a successful sister, both by romantic thoughts and by her level of success (I didn't say that well, but you know what I mean), then no sooner do they get involved than he starts chipping away at her foundation ("Aw Baby, you don't have to go to class today. You got time to hand in that paper. Come back to bed." or "Damn, Baby, you care more about that job than about us!" and such.) because they feel threatened by her success.

The problem is real, and getting more realy over time. Better we should air it, discuss it and find some solutions (even if only at the individual level) than let it fester and destroy our community, even as we try to move on up.

[dj paradigm]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
This article has been the topic of every talk radio station here...

divide and conquer...and it's working

What's amazing about this, is that we allow a white publication to shape the dialogue in the Black community. Haki Madhubuti's work is never discussed and will never be published in NEWSWEEK, but prop up the works of any middle of the road Negro, and it becomes a discussion in the Black community.