Is renting Forever Okay?

[Fletch]

did you know that the benefits if rent stabilization run out ONLY if you make 200k/yr or more? if you make under that they have to keep you 4-6% rent stabilized increases even if you hit the $2000 mark in rent.

i'm in a scuffle now that necessitated a years worth of research investigation into all this stuff in nyc.

Correction....it was a 10-year tax abatement. I'm familiar with the rights of tenants in this city, especially what you posted. However....

1) my studio was getting cluttered
2) I'm a lifelong resident who wanted a piece of New York!
3) I thought home ownership, for me, was better than fighting for rent, even with what you posted above. In fact, the fact that my rent was so low for that neighborhood may have kept me from becoming a homeowner, because I was in such a comfort zone!

[mhd]

I figure; Why buy if you probably won't get it payed off. It's the same thing. Plus you have all the added responsability when owning. Owning does afford you some freedoms. Like remodeling and making a place look like you want. Just is the way I see it.

lol, paying off is the least of my concerns, we are talking about the relative benefits of renting vs buying your housing

[travy]

you are predicting that nyc real estate will go down by 40-50%?

at the high and low ends. solid neighborhoods will hold up better but even those will dip 10-20%. manhattan co-ops are down 7% already...

[House]

great points, but, if a consumer is savvy enough to do such an analysis wouldn't they be savvy enough to find a homeowning scenario that works better than a renting one?

without researching it, i will also challenge your comment about stocks versus real estate, but you gotta factor out the tech boom, obviously you gonna come back with averages, and i'll counter with exceptions, but from 1987 - 2007 i would go with real estate, but energy and tech stocks will prolly skew average returns towards stocks

most consumers are terrible at this analysis.

a home is a great method of FORCED savings for those who might not otherwise do so (imo). So it is a great way for black families to grow wealth

and yes, certain stocks categories will skew the average, but isnt that the beauty of dollar cost averaging? ( we're getting into straight financial analysis, at which i am terrible, so i welcome your thoughts)

[Vinyl Deficit]

lol, paying off is the least of my concerns, we are talking about the relative benefits of renting vs buying your housing

Fair enough...

[Chuck P]

as DR wrote it depends on the person

I've owned (twice) and rented (as well as currently owning acreage). As I live alone and dont need the added expense of a home I can take all the money i'm saving on a home ( currently close to 2100/month) and place that in a high yeild financial instrument. This means I'm putting 24K yearly into investments with an average return of 8% compounded yearly. The housing market currently dropping at the rate of 10% in most places (except NYC).

Is home ownership great - yes. But not for the reasons cayts are trying to put forward. the fact of the matter is that the home in whic you live is a mediocre investment device even in the best of times. However, it is a source of stability for many

I believe that's the way I'm looking at it from a stability standpoint.....I don't think it can be argued that if you play the stock game correctly, you could/would have a bigger rate of return on your investment than home ownership........

I also believe that owning should be a part of an individuals financial portfolio, even if it's for shelter purposes.....

[mhd]

as DR wrote it depends on the person

I've owned (twice) and rented (as well as currently owning acreage). As I live alone and dont need the added expense of a home I can take all the money i'm saving on a home ( currently close to 2100/month) and place that in a high yeild financial instrument. This means I'm putting 24K yearly into investments with an average return of 8% compounded yearly. The housing market currently dropping at the rate of 10% in most places (except NYC).

Is home ownership great - yes. But not for the reasons cayts are trying to put forward. the fact of the matter is that the home in whic you live is a mediocre investment device even in the best of times. However, it is a source of stability for many

good luck to you if you think that is a sound investment strategy, just saying, sure there is expense, but there is also appreciation, you giving a snapshot, when in reality, we have both seen huge returns on stocks and huge appreciation in real estate, all in all, a savvy investor (in stocks) is also, or should, find real estate deals that beat the averages

[Fletch]

at the high and low ends. solid neighborhoods will hold up better but even those will dip 10-20%. manhattan co-ops are down 7% already...

I'm no expert, but I vehemently disagree with 10-20 and 40-50%! Not in this city!

Oh, buy the way, did you reade that Times article Sunday on the stalemate between buyers and sellers? It shoots down that '7% Manhattan coop drop' argument!

[Fletch]

Is renting forever OK?

I'm realizing when it comes to the City of New York, the Euros are giving and affirmative and obvious answer to the above question!

[mhd]

Fair enough...

so, without paying it off, you could leverage your crib, at say 7% and get that 8% markb is talking about, or any number of scenarios that you cannot do with renting

[DJ Loka]

Correction....it was a 10-year tax abatement. I'm familiar with the rights of tenants in this city, especially what you posted. However....

1) my studio was getting cluttered
2) I'm a lifelong resident who wanted a piece of New York!
3) I thought home ownership, for me, was better than fighting for rent, even with what you posted above. In fact, the fact that my rent was so low for that neighborhood may have kept me from becoming a homeowner, because I was in such a comfort zone!

oh no i hear you! lolol, and i've found that many many people don't realize that 200k cutoff part and are getting jacked by their landlords.

[mhd]

most consumers are terrible at this analysis.

a home is a great method of FORCED savings for those who might not otherwise do so (imo). So it is a great way for black families to grow wealth

and yes, certain stocks categories will skew the average, but isnt that the beauty of dollar cost averaging? ( we're getting into straight financial analysis, at which i am terrible, so i welcome your thoughts)

exactly my point, if you can do one (stocks) you can do the other (real estate) or by necessity you will encounter others that can do both, one cat did them both on a major level, chris larsen was a young cat made huge loot during the tech boom, his company plus friends and family, his product: eloan

[travy]

I'm no expert, but I vehemently disagree with 10-20 and 40-50%! Not in this city!

Oh, buy the way, did you reade that Times article Sunday on the stalemate between buyers and sellers? It shoots down that '7% Manhattan coop drop' argument!

the market is determined by those who have to sell and have to buy at any given moment so mileage may vary...

but, traditionally i'd agree with you. but we're coming out of a classic bubble and leading up to it you got lots of people jumping in the market under the impression that it will never come down which inflates things. as soon as reality hits the short-timers will jump ship and we'll get a pretty healthy correction--not to mention all those new condos that will start flooding the market this year.

long term, nyc real estate is a great place to park your money (and your ass) but i really think the next 12 months will be atypical...

[House]

Forbes did an analysis which showed that Stocks were a FAR SUPERIOR investment than RE since 1980

here is link...scroll down to major mkt comparisons and check the pop ups:

http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/27/cx_sc_0527home.html

[travy]

check it:



the bubble poppeth!

[DaveR]

check it:



the bubble poppeth!

Don't you know posting stuff like this, amongst the Carlton Sheets Informercialists will keep this thread going for months

[travy]

Don't you know posting stuff like this, amongst the Carlton Sheets Informercialists will keep this thread going for months

for a real laugh, check out these guys...

[ProvocativeElement]

to me renting=freedom. i'll pay for that flexibility.


and NOW your house loses a percentage point in value when other people on your block are foreclosed upon....so your investment is affected by OTHER PEOPLE defaulting...

i think a mortgage is a ball and chain. makes me break out in hives thinking about a 30 year debt,

in addition, what you pay back in a mortage BY AND FARRRRR excedes what you borrow - so much so, it's really obcene (and technically against the Law of God - I think it's called Usury)

that being said, I'm still looking to buy in the next few years . . .

[DJ Loka]

in addition, what you pay back in a mortage BY AND FARRRRR excedes what you borrow - so much so, it's really obcene (and technically against the Law of God - I think it's called Usury)

that being said, I'm still looking to buy in the next few years . . .

there's alot to be said for not having anything to 'take'... LOLOLOL.

when i owned my first business, i realized verrry quickly how people come for you with bogus lawsuits etc etc, with no reason... on the assumption that there may be something they can get you to pay yourself out of....

and when i do buy land, it's gonna be in another country.

[E-Phi]

in addition, what you pay back in a mortage BY AND FARRRRR excedes what you borrow - so much so, it's really obcene (and technically against the Law of God - I think it's called Usury)

that being said, I'm still looking to buy in the next few years . . .

Amortization killed the loan sharks

[mhd]

Forbes did an analysis which showed that Stocks were a FAR SUPERIOR investment than RE since 1980

here is link...scroll down to major mkt comparisons and check the pop ups:

http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/27/cx_sc_0527home.html

well, at least the authors were honest enough to admit this was flawed, excluding condos, co-ops and mortgages over $330k makes this analysis pretty useless, you knock out almost all of nyc, vegas, miami, dc, san francisco...

[House]

well, at least the authors were honest enough to admit this was flawed, excluding condos, co-ops and mortgages over $330k makes this analysis pretty useless, you knock out almost all of nyc, vegas, miami, dc, san francisco...

actually, the analysis and the assumed equivalency between stocks/bonds etc and home mortgages is the erroneous assumption on both sides of the argument

Stocks bonds etc are SPECULATIVE investments, the home one lives in is NOT

Treating the latter as the first is what has gotten us in this problem to begin with.

Investment devices SHOULD be reflective of risk (and consequently, reward) ones home should not.

By definition, speculative investments SHOULD do better

this is just my own lil analysis on markets, homebuying and human nature

*edit*..your thoughts regarding Forbes articles analysis led me to question the basic premises behind home ownership vs stock/bond ownership - thanks

[gman]

^

[JMNYC]

since i gotta run, i'll answer myself, renting may be better if somebody else is paying the bill, like your company, and your dollars are going for higher yielding investments, but, even then, you gotta compare what your roi is on a purchase versus corp housing.

I had several financial advisors tell me to stay put renting because the location I'm in (Manhattan) has gotten so expensive and I'm in a stabilized apartment. Therefore they instructed me that remaining a renter and investing the difference (even in income property) would be a smart move, given that I want to remain in close proximity to my current location.

As it stands, I pay 1/3 the market value of my apartment but my income is on par with the current market, hence, my expenses are low and my investments (and lifestyle) can be substantially higher. I can also take a financial hit (lose a job, etc.) and still know that I can afford to stay where I am.

[ClubMantra]

Its hard to get a down payment when you have to cough up $950 a month.I know a girl who just bought a house for $599 k.She did'nt put any money down and the mortgage is $4000 a month.She had a section 8 tenant but the section 8, didnt renew and was dropped.Long story short the lady only pays $300 bucks a month so now she has to pay the rest.She only makes$1000 a week so she is in a bind.

That must have been some good a** Section 8. In PA, she would have never qualified. She may have to sell or get a tenant(s) who will pay $3500/month or sell and get something that she can manage the payments in a crisis. Real estate can be good, but so can investing. The trick is save a minimum of $25-50/week or more=$1,300 or $2,600/year. That same money can be used weekly to by stock, which is totally liquid. When you need money, just call the company (avoid buying from investment companies) and sell off so many shares and they send you a check within 2 days. If you run a business from out of your apt, you can write a portion of the space off on your taxes.