They really never get to say much on camera.
LRR and DrillSgt are out there in the trenches doing it.
They really never get to say much on camera.
LRR and DrillSgt are out there in the trenches doing it.
Last edited by chldfknungrnd764; 11-05-2008 at 08:22 PM.
Ten bucks says they're heavy McCain and are wondering what Obama "will do with the military".
Mixed....troops seem happy. Officers who tend to be Republican are concerned about funding, future deployments, and taxes.
Those in higher rank try to walk over troops with their views, very scary.
I remember when brothers used to wear Malcolm X shirts on base, totally frowned on by many white StaffNco's and Commissioned Officers.
The military is a totally different world, no cameras to capture what the troops feel.
I've been there, if you're not gonna say anything positive don't speak when the camera is put on you.
How many troops are captured saying the war sucks, only troops with ra-ra comments for the camera.
The military is a canned community, Vietnam taught the military brass this, Desert Shield/Storm brought about a new begining.
Last edited by chldfknungrnd764; 11-05-2008 at 08:43 PM.
someone out in Iraq said there's a lot of hate goin on right now!
Iraq, Eyes on US Election
November 04, 2008
MOSUL, Iraq - U.S. Soldiers in Mosul, where war still rages, caught a glimpse of the election battle back home as they ate breakfast today, awaiting the outcome of a contest that could decide the future of the mission in Iraq.
Three of four TV screens at the dining hall at Camp Marez in the northern Iraqi city were tuned to sports and only one to CNN, where Sen. Barack Obama's last rally at Manassas, Va., was being shown live.
Soldiers said they would continue with their mission and nothing special was planned for election day. Those who voted had already mailed in their absentee ballots long ago.
Sgt. James Fowler, 27, of Fresno, Calif., praised the Army for encouraging Soldiers to vote and helping them with absentee ballots. He said he voted for Obama but "I am outnumbered 10-to-one, especially among officers" and senior non-commissioned officers who said they wanted Sen. John McCain to win.
"Everyone is looking forward to McCain," he said. "But I believe it's time for change and Obama has promised that. At least he has given us a timeline" for withdrawing from Iraq.
Obama has called for bringing all combat Soldiers home within 16 months. McCain, a veteran and former Vietnam War prisoner, says the current U.S. strategy in Iraq is working and has promised to pursue the war until victory.
For Iraqis, the stakes could not be higher, though many of them said they did not think U.S. policy would change dramatically no matter who wins the White House.
"We hope that the new American president will open a new page with our country which was suffering along 35 years under former regime and is still suffering a lot under the occupation," said Baghdad resident Mohammed al-Tamimi.
"We don't have freedom, we don't have independence. Our wealth is not under our control. We are not happy now," he said.
One Iraqi Christian woman who refused to give her name for security reasons told Associated Press Television in Baghdad that she was hoping McCain would win because she fears Obama would withdraw U.S. troops quickly "and make chaos in our country."
Back in Mosul, Sgt. Anthony Vess, of Bethlehem, Pa., said "a lot of people are worked up" about the election "but whoever wins I think the U.S. will be able to bounce back from all its problems."
Vess, 27, said he thought a lot of younger Soldiers supported Obama's Iraq policy "but we all have an obligation to our Army and our country."
"This war has taken up a chunk of my life," he said. "I consider myself a peacekeeper not a war fighter."
Sgt. 1st Class Luis Rosedo, a Puerto Rican serving with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, said Soldiers were too busy to follow the election as closely as Americans back home.
"I'd rather be there than here on election day," he said. "It's more exciting than the last one. I haven't followed the campaign too closely, just watched some TV when I'm here. I've been too busy."
Well I'm still in; 18 1/2 year Air Force E-7 to be exact. And my experience is that the reaction is much the same as the general population. Most of the younger enlisted AND officers support President Elect Obama (had to drop it!). Many of the old guard support Senator McCain. But a lot of the old guard with high school and college age kids also support President Elect Obama. Despite what many people think there are just as many varied opinions as there are people in the military.
Sorry for the late reply. been smoking my victory cigar.
as for here on Camp Victory, Iraq. Most of the people that is know and associate with and just surveying the area mostly the black people i talk to are are pumped, smiling, talking very loud at the chow hall about Obama's win. some whites are very happy too. From Sr level officers to the lower enlisted. I was expecting the worse over here, plus everybody is strapped here too!!! but it was very peaceful and people maintain their professionalism.
I had a Iraqi worker say to me when is was walking by him on my way to work, "Obama, win, yes" and give me the thumbs up sign.
I know some body is going to say something smart mouth and shit is going to blow up. I am just waiting for it.
being a Senior NCO we are taught to be non political and not steer Soldiers to a certain party....BUT the hell with that this brother is pumped and to quote James Brown...Say it loud....I black and i am proud.
but we can't get complacent, we must continue to work hard, mentor our younger generation this is very important, seek push higher education and reflect on our elders who paved the way for this to happen. I truly believe this will open the door for other races, genders to get off their asses and do something.
We are still basking in the glory of this victory but once the smoke clears the question is, "Are you going back to same old lazy stereotypical black person roll or are you going to try to make a change in your life, finances, situation".
2009 is right around the corner....resolutions? Hmm......
Paul K. Pinkney
Master Sergeant,US Army
Walter Reed National Military Medical Center
8901 Wisconsin Ave
A lot of troops are saying negative things to relatives via Spawar phones, upset and not comfortable with change. It is said to be moreso over Obama being a non vet and McCain being a vet "he understands us from the military prospective". As for me, McCain sure know how to crash planes & elections.
There is a large Uganda security force here and they are all very happy as they look at the news and see people from home and other parts of Africa very glad that America now has a Black President.
Every other than American person on this base has been saying Obama and giving a thumbs up to Black soldiers.
We (Black Soldiers) were expected to come all out our bag and act in a way that would cause confrontations but none so far have reacted that way.
In the Large dining hall here there are a number of TV, a few for sports and a few for news...the news TV seating areas are filled with Miniorities (for the lack of a better word) - all smiles and locked in on the current events.
A Unganda security officer said "This is a world victory, not just one for the USA".
I never look at what Obamas win ment on a GLOBAL arena. People around the world are very happy and Barack Obama has just become more famous worldwide that Michael Jackson & Michael Jordan combined!!!
There has been little talk from my fellow 101st Airborne soldiers and...the wives back on base that used to Heckle (s/p) my wife have be silenced now that McCain LOST.
This victory is a Dager that is stabed DEEP in the heart of Racist America and has divided them (that minority of assholes) from American who are NOT of COLOR but DO NOT ENDORSE RACISM.
I hope that his victory bring us ALL to the table and enable us to work together toward a common goal and eliminate that of which divided us since way back when.
I hope this make the IDIOTS in the Rap Music world look at themself with a serious eye and allow them to see how they are playing theirself and projecting a Bag Image for the sake of a dollar.
I hope they look at the fact that Ludacris misses his chance to be the first Rapper to play the White House for a Black President - hope he feel like an ass right about now.
Sorry for the long story...and - I do not have time to check it for typos at this time.
EDIT***If them who are in my unit that do not like what I post and are lerking on DHP to read and such, all I can say is...
If you got a problem with what I say - we can hook up and fix that shit STRAIGHT QUICK...Feel Me?
Come Holla At Me in the MWR or Motor Pool - I ain't that hard to find, EVER!.
Last edited by LEONARD REMIX RROY; 11-06-2008 at 05:54 AM.
For some, the new order of things looks like it's going to be hard to swallow.
The Other Side of Paradise
Eastern Afghanistan -- From the outer walls of this fire base in eastern Afghanistan, you can see the mountains
that mark the border with Pakistan. The Taliban rocket this base regularly, and move throughout the area with
relative ease. The US soldiers here live with this threat, but are so restricted by the rules of engagement
established by NATO and the Karzai government, that taking military action is difficult. This is a war that is now
driven by politics and cultural sensitivity, rather than tactics and strategies that seek some form of victory.
Soldiers are notoriously silent about their political views. By law they are committed to supporting the Commander
and Chief. Yet this election has brought about deep feelings of distrust and uncertainty within their ranks. The perception
of Obama for these soldiers is grounded in some simple realities that for them draws into question the President-elect's
intentions and core beliefs in the United States .
Sitting on a couch in front of the television in the early hours of the morning, an Army Captain watched as the
election results were being reported. He shook his head in disgust. "This is proof that the media can elect a President."
The room walls were grey concrete, the floor covered in a red Afghan rug, the sofa and love seat torn and worn down
from constant use. The dusty television was set in a plywood box; a field made "entertainment" cabinet. The Captain
continued, "I take [Obama's] not wearing the flag on his lapel and his reasoning very personally. Fuck him. That
flag is more than just about a country and its ideas; it is about the man on your left and right that you fight with and
die for." The Master Sergeant sitting in the room commented,"He has no use for soldiers. He never took the time on
his tours to spend time with soldiers, only senior commanders and foreign politicians."
As the morning progressed and the polls began to close, more soldiers filled into the room. It was now standing room
only as Obama's electoral count pushed passed 200. Another Captain spoke up, "If McCain can win California and Texas
he still has a chance." A Lieutenant grabbed the television remote and began flipping through the channels. "Look as
these newscasters. These fuckers are making this a racial issue. This was never about race." As he continued
through the channels, every major network was interviewing an African-American, discussing some form of a
"coming of age" of America. Another soldier spoke up, "This is not about race. It's about religion. That is the
war the we are facing. I want to see what book Obama swears in on."
As the morning progressed, the electoral totals confirmed Obama's win. The mood fell quiet, a feeling as if one
of their own had been killed in battle. I looked across the room to a Major sitting near the back corner. " The
issues of race that are spouted by mouthpieces like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and others can no longer
be argued. There is now a black President. I don't trust him, but then again, this is what this country is about...
allowing an African American unknown to rise to President. As they say, be careful what you wish for. The American
public will get what it asked for, whatever that turns out to be."
Another soldier continued, "You know what really sucks is that none of our votes count. Sure, we voted, but
they are absentee ballots. They only are counted in the event of a tie. What type of statement is that towards
democracy. You fight, you die, but your vote while deployed doesn't count."
The group discussion continued, " As a military officer I will serve whoever is Commander and Chief. But this
is the wrong guy for the job, and the wrong time for our country. He's weak." The soldier continued, " The
greatest fear for a military officer is dedicating your life to a fight that ends up meaning nothing. This generation
of Americans behind Obama is the "me" generation. They haven't served their country, they serve themselves.
They haven't buried their friends for a cause they believed in and fought and died for. Now those friends that I buried
will have died for nothing. All Obama wants to do is get us out."
By mid-afternoon, an article appeared on CNN.com stating that Afghanistan's President Karzai had made a plea to
President-elect Obama over civilian deaths in a recent US-lead bombing. As I sat with the soldiers for lunch, the
article was discussed. "Karzai is a politician just like Obama. He's playing his hand to make himself look better in
the eyes of the Afghans and to help ensure his re-election after the first of the year." As the Sergeant finished,
a Major continued,"This is a war. Karzai wants it both ways. He wants to point the finger at us whenever he
thinks he can gain favor with the Afghan people. But he wants our money and our soldiers to fight for him. I
expect Obama to support him, cut our budgets and hang us out to dry for the sake of his vision of change. He
is all about negotiating and compromise."
I looked over at a Captain sitting on a chair, slumped down, arms on the table. I asked him if he was alright.
"I have no energy today. I feel like I have been betrayed. This is the rise of the "me" generation into the places
of power." The soldier next to him looked across the table at me, "I'm done. It has gotten harder and harder to
do our job. This election is the final blow. I just need to finish up my time and get out." As he dropped his head,
another Captain slid his chair to the table,"Obama is now our President. We're not happy about it. It sucks. But
now that he is our President, we will support him. That's part of being an American soldier. That's what makes
our country strong."
I Will Not Be Quiet About What I Feel...
I am in a position that I could die so others may have free speach -
but I am not allowed / denied that same right?
Ahh...NO. Rule Broken...I'm A Man First!
Ombudsman:DOD policy kept troops’ voices mum on election results
Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Thursday, November 6, 2008
WASHINGTON — Military public affairs officials in Japan and South Korea blocked Stars and Stripes from interviewing troops on base about the elections as returns came in, citing Defense Department rules regarding political statements.
Pentagon spokesman Maj. Stewart Upton said officials decided not to allow any commercial media on military facilities to observe reaction to election results or discuss the election with servicemembers because "image and perception of the Department is to be one of nonpartisanship."
Policy released by the department in January prohibited troops acting in official military capacity from "public commentary, including speeches and written submissions offered for publication, concerning campaigns or elections."
The newspaper considered the interference illegal and ordered its reporters to continue to report from bases until they were forced to stop.
DOD spokesman Lt. Col. Les Melnyk said although troops are allowed to express their political opinions in a nonofficial capacity, defense officials are not obligated to give them a public platform to do so.
"Nobody wants to go out of their way to assist with a story that chips away at the fundamental apolitical nature of the military," he said. "We all took an oath, and we’re concerned that these stories could lead to the impression that we don’t like one [candidate] or another.
"It’s nothing but a gateway to trouble for us."
Stars and Stripes Editorial Director Terry Leonard said the newspaper did not need any assistance and did not ask Defense Department officials for any assistance to do a story on reaction to the U.S. election.
"Defense officials improperly interfered with the newspaper’s ability to carry out normal and lawful journalistic duties," Leonard said.
Melnyk’s comments made it clear that officials interfered because they did not approve of the story, Leonard said. That interference, he said, "amounted to official news management that is impermissible under regulation and illegal under federal law."
Melnyk said reporters are free to interview troops off-base and off-duty, but cautioned that "if those troops are stupid about what they say it could risk their careers."
If a servicemember speaks publicly about refusing orders or opposing the new president, that could prompt commanding officers to place a letter in that person’s record or seek further reprimand, he said.
Earlier this year the department denied requests from two other news organizations to interview troops on base regarding the election. Officials said Wednesday’s move against Stripes reporters follows the same decision-making process.
Melnyk said the policy does not prohibit troops from expressing their opinion on the election, "but we’d prefer they do it in a less public forum."
In Japan, Sasebo Naval Base spokesman Charles Howard said Stripes reporters would not be allowed on base for any election coverage, per instructions from the Pentagon.
In South Korea, Robert H. McElroy, public affairs officer for the U.S. Army Garrison-Humphreys, said Wednesday morning that a Stripes reporter would not be allowed on base for coverage as previously planned.
And U.S. Forces Korea spokesman Dave Palmer directed a Stripes reporter to stop gathering information on Yongsan Garrison early Wednesday afternoon.
The commands in both Europe and the Mideast, however, did not try to prevent troops from talking to reporters on base.
Floe Cameron, a civilian speech pathologist attached to the U.S. Navy at Sasebo, said the media should be allowed to speak to servicemembers and others about the election inside military facilities.
"Why should the base be any different than anywhere else? It’s free speech, isn’t it?" Cameron said. "I think we should be able to express our opinions and [the press] should be able to document it."
Restrict access? DOD shouldn’t go there
By Dave Mazzarella, Stars and Stripes ombudsman
Mideast edition, Thursday, November 6, 2008
On a night like no other when America’s open and democratic virtues were put on worldwide display, an ill-advised policy within the Department of Defense proclaimed to servicemembers and the news media alike: “No you can’t.” What a servicemember and a journalist couldn’t do, the policy drafters ordered, was engage in conversation on a military base as the returns from a momentous election rolled in.
Stars and Stripes’ plans for providing news of Tuesday’s election started out with a new and seemingly innocent twist, tied to the opportunities of the new media. Reporters were to go to the common areas of bases and observe the reaction of servicemembers as the voting was tallied and shown on TV and the Internet. They were then to file to Stripes’ Web site, via “twitter,” an electronic form for sending brief, staccato messages.
The Stripes editor in charge of the Pacific, Tom Skeen, explained that the reporters were to “go to common public areas on bases to capture the flavor of Election Day for a color story … [and] to simply observe and record what folks are doing and saying as the returns come in.” He said this in a message to the Office of the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs (OSDPA) in the Pentagon, after, as a courtesy, he had advised the offices of U.S. Forces Japan.
The notification was one of “courtesy” because there was little reason to believe the plan would cause any problems. After all, the assignments called only for what is known as color, or atmospheric, coverage. The areas where this was to take place were public; only six months before, a memorandum sent worldwide by the former deputy assistant secretary of defense for public affairs, Allison Barber, had stated that “S&S reporters are entitled to pursue the news in the common areas of military facilities, such as shopping areas, MWR facilities, areas open to general public or common facilities in housing areas.”
But that wasn’t good enough for the Pentagon officials who received Skeen’s message. Permission denied, they said. And not only in Skeen’s Pacific bailiwick, but worldwide. “As a matter of long standing policy, DoD personnel are to avoid engaging in activities that could associate the Department with any partisan election,” Maj. Stewart T. Upton wrote after conferring with others. Appeals to OSDPA were unsuccessful.
What servicemembers say while in uniform can be construed as a position of the DOD, the officials said. No matter that servicemembers, identified by name, rank and location, express themselves regularly in letters to the editor of newspapers, and in blogs. No matter that every DOD restriction placed on uniformed servicemembers with respect to politics speaks explicitly of “official capacity” actions — giving a speech, writing a column, being active in a political event such as a demonstration. No matter that Congress has clearly stated that both Stars and Stripes and “military personnel on the frontiers of freedom” must be protected by the free speech provisions of the First Amendment.
There were other arguments for barring Stripes from this fairly routine election coverage exercise. For one thing, the officials said, commercial media were not being allowed to go on bases to cover election reaction, so Stripes also should not be. This is a recurring argument that ignores the unique position of Stripes — unique not only within the U.S. government but probably within any government in the world. It has been created and is supported within the DOD to provide news and information to troops in a way that no other civilian media want to do or can do. Stripes staffers work from offices on base. They have DOD ID cards. They live and work in many respects as servicemembers themselves do. And there is no small number of active-duty personnel on assignment to Stripes as editors, reporters and photographers.
In the face of the OSDPA pronouncement, which Skeen said left him “flabbergasted,” Editorial Director Terry Leonard ordered reporters to go about their tasks on election night, in base common areas. If confronted by authorities, they were to state their objections and leave peaceably. This is exactly the procedure that reporters use everywhere when, for instance, they are ordered out of courtroom or have an improper gag order imposed on them by a judge. State your case, cause no further fuss, and get out.
As the evening wore on, the ban sent out from the Pentagon was enforced in a few Pacific bases — Sasebo Naval Base in Japan and Camp Humphreys and Yongsan Garrison in South Korea. As of this writing, no other confrontations have been reported. Stripes staffers in other places were able to observe the election night atmosphere on base — in some cases the folks were more engaged by non-election television fare — and talk to several servicemembers, none of whom, as far as I could tell, said anything that would make anybody blush.
The difficulty with this unnecessary policy edict is not with how it played out around the world last night, but in any precedent officials see it as setting. It needs to be rolled back. It is unworthy of the principles DOD defends, of generous mandates from Congress, of the mood of the day.
Got a question or suggestion for the ombudsman on what appears, or should appear, in Stars and Stripes? Send an e-mail to firstname.lastname@example.org, or phone 202-761-0945 in the States. For several links associated with this column, please go to David Mazzarella’s Readers’ Corner blog. It can be found here.
Links To The Memos (PDF files)
http://www.stripes.com/01/may01/ed051401l.html < has about 12 other links on that page of all kind of stuff.
Time for Change is NOW!!!!
Last edited by LEONARD REMIX RROY; 11-06-2008 at 10:46 AM.
lrr you da man!
Thanks for all the replies from my military folks!
I'm A Man First, I say what I want and to who I want (especially if I have a hidden agenda that is trying to be met)
Give me 20 Soldier.