Founding Fathers(Legendary Dj's from Brooklyn and Queens during the 60's/70's).

[Ron la Rock]

Don't really know who was first, so I've resolved to only speak on what I experienced. Pete DJ Jones is about 10 years older than I am. He, Maboya and Flowers were out there before me. Rocking the breaks with two records was around before me and I jumped on the scene in 73 during the summer at Riis Beach. There was QJ from Brooklyn, who was around from about a decade prior to me and who mixed with tapes - reel to reel tapes - and was quite good. Alot of his stuff was pre-mixed, but still good. We with the multiple turntables brought spontaneity into the equation. I think it was 1974 when I met Sedley B who became our voice (sounded just like Hank Spann) and in 1975 we included the "City Steppers." Pete who was from the Bronx had KC on the mike and then Flowers followed suite. Although we were competitors, we copied all the cool stuff from each other.

Regarding the Hip-Hop elements, I'd have to divide it into three categories; the mix, spoken word and dance.

• Flowers was (IMHO) the best all around mixer of the mobile crews. He brought many of funk elements from both the R&B world and the Rock world (i.e. He was the first one I heard play the Mexican by Babe Ruth and mix it with James Brown), which caused me to expand my own horizons.

- The best technical mixer of the mobile crew was this young fella from Brooklyn named Gregg (don’t remember his last name). He had just graduated from Eramus Hall HS and hung out in the gay clubs. The women and the better dancers (hustle in during those days) tended to follow him – they didn’t feel threatened nor pressured to deal with a lot of drama. I don’t know what ever happened to Gregg, though he wasn’t on the mobile scene long. His dance crew began accompanying me from club to club, which is how I ran into Sedley B.

• Sedley was the best rapper - sort of a combination of Baptist preacher, WWRL radio jock (i.e. Gary Byrd with Hank Spann voice) and since he was a dancer, he had an impeccable sense of timing.

• The City Steppers (group of teenager hip-hop dancers complete with cardboard) were like gymnasts on steroids (just a metaphor).

The one thing I’m can look back on those days and be very proud of is that however we carried ourselves (lots of confidence) no one in our crew was into the drug scene.





I'll have to get back to you on the mixes. I haven't spun in years, although my signature break was to extend the James Brown Sex Machine Live cut and break into Love is the Message - MFSB where James says "Fellas do you want to hear it like you did on the top, Hit it now 1 2 3 4 -CUT-- into the break of Love is the Message" and then extend Love is the Message, alternating between the instrumental and vocal versions.

Peace,
Ron

Much respect!!! and great post this & these acounts needs to come out///also Thank You so much 4 your contribution to this DJ thing we live in!!!
always learning more
(Ron frm Bx perspective of coarse lol)

[Moksha]

Thanks for the history!!

[Vman]

.............any updates on the movie??............

[Sal Paradise]

Much respect Mike. I know you have often made reference and spoke on DJ's going all the way back to the 60's, but it's great to see you start a specific thread on it. A lot of the "proto" history remains in mystery and you are always helping to illuminate it. Your posts alone over the years pretty much changed and educated my entire concept of how hiphop began and what it came out of.

[Mike Barnes]

Sal, Good lookin with the very kind words, My man, Sal, The main reason why i started posting information on the internet in 1998, Was to build and contribute information wise, In regards to the Dance music, Hiphop circuit in New York, During the 70's/80's(Since i did

Not see that many cats who remembered the things that i was building about on this site and Nestor's site in 1998 to the early 2000's), Sal, I just wanted to build and inform, With the possibility of other cats/young ladies, Build on they're experiences and exposures on the dance music circuit in New York, During the 70's/80's, Too, My man(Which alot of

Cats/young ladies have contributed to, Information wise on this site), Sal, Cats like David Mancuso, Francios, Rene Hewitt, Plummer, Boyd Jarvis, Etc, Are the cats who were more exposed to the Dance music circuit in New York, During the 70's/80's, Than myself, My

man, I was very lucky to have been exposed to the dance music circuit and hiphop circuit in New York, During the 70's/80's, In regards to a cat gettin loose at the spots/LOL, Sal, When i do build about the dance music and hiphop circuits in New York, During the

70's/80's, I try to also include the basketball and movin weight circuits too(Because, All of those circuits were universal during the 70's/80's, In New York), Sal, Good lookin for your very kind words, And, Hopefully, Cats will enjoy the DVD of, 'The Founding Fathers', When it comes out, Vman, No updates of the 'Founding Father's documentary, My man(I'm very

Sure, Cats have to license all of the music that is being played in the Founding Fathers documentary, Which, Would created a delay in the release date of the documentary), My man, Sal, Vman, When you cats read Plummer's interview with my man Troy

(thafoundation.com), You cats will be very enlightened, In regards to the very early days on the Dance music circuit in New York, During the early to mid 70's(I'm waiting for Troy to release the interview to the public/LOL).

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[robdoe]

Nuff respect to all the true veteran DJs who helped formulate Hip Hop, Dance and House music. Sounds like we definately have some Vets on this thread choppn it up. However being a BX native who always took the utmost pride in the culture called hip hop as being our child, i must humbly and respectfully disagree with the idea that Hip hop did not start in the BX. I do acknowledge that Jocks such as Flowers(BK), Pete Jones(BX) were buying doubles of tracks for purposes of extending the breaks before Kool Herc. But I always thought that the whole hip hop idea and additude stemed from the DJ along with the B-boy. And that's who Herc inspired. The B-Boy(Break boy/Bronx Boy) created the whole hip hop attitude in the sense where it was a new way of being cool on the streets. In fact alot of the so-called hip hop gear of those day were associated with b-boys before the MC. The B-boy made it cool to rock sneakers to parties. Before B-boyn this think called hip hop didn't have a name(w/ all do recognition to the BK uprockers). Some of the elements which makes up Hip Hop as a music and culture came from other areas outside the Bronx and even outside NYC. But it was the Bronx who combined it all and made it a culture. It was the Bronx that took the art of extending breaks(where Vets like Pete Jones, Flowers, Disco Twins started), graffiti(which was actually born in Philly), B-Boyn(Born in the BX, inspired beythe BK uprockers except the BX went down and stayed down)and MCin(Coke la Rock, Hollywood, Luv Bug Starski) put it all together and made it a music genre and culture in itself. In the early to mid 70s, it seems that everyone was coming to the Bronx and uptown to check out this think call hip hop. It was DJ Theodore who brought scratchn to the game(a staple sound in Hip hop djin), while Flash brought the art of gettn quick on the wheels and he was the 1st to bring the Beatbox/drum machine to the game. Now Imma really get jumped on for this, but I thought it was the BX who set the tone in what were considered breaks to mix, b-boy to and Flow to in the mid 70s and 80s. Cut's like Apache, Mumbo no 5, Good Times, Catch a groove, Get up and Dance(Freedom), Mardi Gras(Bob James), Ride Sally Ride, Scorpio, Jungle Jazz, Cool is Back (Funk inc), Fuckadelic, Champ(the Mohawks) Rockn in the pocket, Johnny the fox, Funky president, Funky Drummer, ect... were some of the beats that DJs like Flash, Bambatta, Theordore and Breakout made hot on the NY scene. Then we still have the dresscode aspect. Can't speak much on the early 70s, but back in the late 70s early 80s, when i was going to H.S in BK alot of kids were behind in wears and dance according to how we was doing it in the BX and uptown(I can do a complete breakdown in that area for those who disagree)! Now if I'm wrong please excuse my inaccuracies. I was born in 68. So I witness alot from a BX prespective. BTW I have posted comments on every single one of those clips(Founding fathers on youtube)... Big up to you Plummer for the work you put in that predates my days on the NY party scene, Big up to all the 5 boroughs and their contributions and most definately nuff respect to you Mike B for always droppn jewalz as ussual... But I know you're gonna come at me for this...lol.

[Vman]

...........Mike, I'm looking forward to the completion of this project......

[Mike Barnes]

Rob, I'm not coming at you like that, In regards to your comments and exposures on the hiphop circuit in the Bronx, During the 70's/80's, My man(This is a very informative and friendly dialogue, Via cats who lived it, And, Can confirm it with reputable information, My man, Rob, I feel a vast majority of cats from the Bronx(Not all cats from the Bronx, But,

Alot of cats from the Bronx, Who i have built with for the last 30 years in regards to the hiphop circuit in New York/LOL), Were not traveling outside of the Bronx, To Brooklyn, Queens(And, Even Manhattan/Harlem/LOL), On a regular basis to know, What was going on in other area's of the city, During the mid 70's to lte 70's(Exhibit A:Mad cats from the

Bronx, Manhattan, Never heard of King Charles, Who was on the Queens mobile Dj circuit in 1968, One year after Pete Dj Jones in 1967 and a year before Grandmaster Flowers in 1969, Rob, There were mad cats doing it on the mobile Dj circuit in Brooklyn and Queens, That cats from the Bronx NEVER HEARD OF, Why, A vast majority of cats from the Bronx,

WERE NOT TRAVELING LIKE THAT TO KNOW WHAT OTHER CATS OUTSIDE OF THE BRONX, WERE DOING, My man/LOL, Rob, Now the essence of hiphop(Graff, Dj'ing, MC'ing, B'boys, Etc), Can be traced back to the Bronx, During the early/mid 70s, Starting in Kool Herc's era at Cedar Park in the West Bronx in 1974, Though, The origin of rockin throwdowns in the

Parks, Started in Brooklyn with John Ausby and QJ Simpson in 1959(I've never heard any cat from the Bronx, Who was rockin in the parks in 1959, My man/LOL), Rob, The hiphop circuit in regards to B'boying, Dj'ing, Mc'ing, Was created in the Bronx, In 1974 with Herc

(What cats from Brooklyn and Queens Dispute, Is were the art of rocking throwdowns in the parks started at, And, It was not in the Bronx with Herc, My man/LOL, Now, Cats from the Bronx took the hiphop culture alot more seriously in regards to Dj'ing, Mc'ing, BoBoys, Etc, Than Brooklyn and Queens(And, For that matter Manhattan too), During the 70's/80's,

While, Cats from Brooklyn and Queens took the Dj circuit as a thing of, Rockin for the community, Opposed to rockin to gain notoriety and praise for one's accomplishments and feats(Like alot of cats from the Bronx were doing during the 70's/80's, On the hiphop

Circuit), Rob, That's why the media stepped to the Bronx for information on the hiphop circuit, During the 70's, Without the media including Brooklyn and Queens, For Information(Because, The Bronx took the hiphop culture more seriously than Brooklyn and Queens, During the 70's), Rob, There's no dispute from myself, In regards to the Bronx's

Contributions to the hiphop circuit and hiphop culture when it comes to Dj'ng, MC'ing, Graf, B'Boys, Etc, During the early/mid 70's, Going back to the gang culture with the Black Spades, Etc, Though, The origins and foundation of what would become the hiphop culture was created by the Brooklyn and Queens Dj Circuit, From 1959(John Ausby and Qj

Simpson) to the late 60's/early 70's(Flowers, Plummer Pete Dj Jones, Maboya, King Charles,The Smith Brothers, Along with Hollywood too, Etc), My man, Though, Cats like Pete Dj Jones, Grandmaster Flowers, Plummer, The Smith Brothers, King Charles, Etc, Were the elite Dj's on the mobile dj circuit in New York, During the late 60's to late 70's,

Those cats paved the way for Herc to take the moblie dj circuit even further, By creating a genre for younger cats to follow in regards to rockin throwdowns in the parks in 1974 in the Bronx, My man, Rob, Another very important element that should always be discussed

And respected is, Mad cats from the Bronx(Alot of legends too/LOL), Were to young to travel to Brooklyn and Queens to know what was going on in those area's, In regards to the Mobile Dj circuit, During the 60's/70's, My man/LOL, Rob, I started hanging on the

Hiphop circuit in 1974 at Moringside park in Harlem(123rdst and Moringside Drive in Harlem, Not to far from Grants Tombs on the west-side of Harlem), Now, When i started out hanging in 1974 in Harlem, It was very rare to see any cat from The Bronx and Manhattan,

Coming out to Brooklyn and Queens for anything, During the mid 70's to late 70's, My man(Though, They're were a few cats from The Bronx and Manhattan, Who would come out to Brooklyn and Queens, Via the basketball circuit in those area's during the mid 70's to late 70's), Rob, Now, You take alot of cats from the Bronx not traveling to Brooklyn and Queens at all, Along with mad cats from The Bronx and Manhattan, Being to young to travel to

Brooklyn and Queens, During the mid 70's to late 70's(With the exception of Hollywood, Eddie Chebba, Lovebug Starski), And, You have alot of cats who were not aware of the Dj circuit in Brooklyn and Queens, My man(Exhibit B:My man Van Silk did not know that Ralph McDaniels was a Dj, My Man/LOL), Rob, Van's my man like breakfest in the morning too, My

Man/LOL, Infact, Van Silk is one of the only cats from the Bronx, Who honestly, And Truthfully, Gives Brooklyn and Queens, Mad respect on the hiphop and dj circuit in New York, During the early 70's, My man, Rob, Now on the aspect of cats running obscure plates, On the hiphop circuit for the MC's to rhyme over/LOL, Well, Brooklyn and Queens

(And for that matter Manhattan too/LOL), Ran the breaks of plates that cats were aware of(Along with obscure plates like, 'Get into Something', By The Isley Brothers, 'Theme From Swat', By Rhythm Heritage', 'Listen to me', By Baby Huey', 'Wings of fire', By Dennis Coffey', 'I can't stop', by John Davis and the Monster Orchestra, 'It just begun', By Jimmy Castor Bunch, 'Love the life you live', By Kool and the gang, Etc, Rob, Cats like Flowers,

Maboya, King Charles, Plummer, The Smith Brothers, Disco Twins, Infinity Machine, Cipher Sounds, Phase III, Master D, Fantasia Sounds Dj's of the Music Hut in Brooklyn, Etc, Were running some of the same plates that Bam, Herc, Breakout(Funky 4), Disco King Mario,

Flash, Theodore, Mean Gene(L Brothers), Charlie Chase(Coldcrush), Dj Aj, Jazzy Jay, Imperial JC(Kool Herc's crew)Etc, Were running, My man(Though, The older more established Dj's in Brooklyn and Queens, Were not running obscure plates like the Bronx

Cats were on a regular basis, Because in Brooklyn and Queens, You have to let the record play for the dancers to get loose, Opposed to just rockin the breaks for the B'Boy's MC's to get loose, My man/LOL, Rob, Brooklyn and Queens loved the hiphop culture during the 70's

Too, My man(Though, Not as much as the Bronx, But, They're never would have been a hiphop culture in the Bronx, If it were not for the Dj's from Brooklyn and Queens, During the 1960's to early 70's, Who paved way for the hiphop culture to be born, Via, Herc's

Throwdowns at Cedar park in 1974 and Bam's influence on the gang culture, To stop the madness in the Bronx in 1973, My man, Rob, I used to hang at Valley Park in Co-op city in the Bronx, During the mid to late 70's, Rockin to the sounds of your man Timmy Hall and his man KBJ(Who used rock at The Stardust Ballroom on Gunhill road and Fish ave, During the

Late 70's, Along with Timmy Hall and KBJ rockin throwdowns at New York Tech/Long Island campus, CW Post, Stoney Brook, Adelphi University with Spectrum city From Long Island, Featuring, Hank Shocklee/Keith Shocklee, Chuck-D, Etc, So, I have the utmost of respect,

For the cats around your way in Co-op city in the Bronx, Like, The Funky 4, Kool Kyle, T-Ski Valley, Love Bug Starski, Timmy Hall and KBJ, Etc, My man.

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[robdoe]

Rob, I'm not coming at you like that, In regards to your comments and exposures on the hiphop circuit in the Bronx, During the 70's/80's, My man(This is a very informative and friendly dialogue, Via cats who lived it, And, Can confirm it with reputable information, My man, Rob, I feel a vast majority of cats from the Bronx(Not all cats from the Bronx, But,

Alot of cats from the Bronx, Who i have built with for the last 30 years in regards to the hiphop circuit in New York/LOL), Were not traveling outside of the Bronx, To Brooklyn, Queens(And, Even Manhattan/Harlem/LOL), On a regular basis to know, What was going on in other area's of the city, During the mid 70's to lte 70's(Exhibit A:Mad cats from the

Bronx, Manhattan, Never heard of King Charles, Who was on the Queens mobile Dj circuit in 1968, One year after Pete Dj Jones in 1967 and a year before Grandmaster Flowers in 1969, Rob, There were mad cats doing it on the mobile Dj circuit in Brooklyn and Queens, That cats from the Bronx NEVER HEARD OF, Why, A vast majority of cats from the Bronx,

WERE NOT TRAVELING LIKE THAT TO KNOW WHAT OTHER CATS OUTSIDE OF THE BRONX, WERE DOING, My man/LOL, Rob, Now the essence of hiphop(Graff, Dj'ing, MC'ing, B'boys, Etc), Can be traced back to the Bronx, During the early/mid 70s, Starting in Kool Herc's era at Cedar Park in the West Bronx in 1974, Though, The origin of rockin throwdowns in the

Parks, Started in Brooklyn with John Ausby and QJ Simpson in 1959(I've never heard any cat from the Bronx, Who was rockin in the parks in 1959, My man/LOL), Rob, The hiphop circuit in regards to B'boying, Dj'ing, Mc'ing, Was created in the Bronx, In 1974 with Herc

(What cats from Brooklyn and Queens Dispute, Is were the art of rocking throwdowns in the parks started at, And, It was not in the Bronx with Herc, My man/LOL, Now, Cats from the Bronx took the hiphop culture alot more seriously in regards to Dj'ing, Mc'ing, BoBoys, Etc, Than Brooklyn and Queens(And, For that matter Manhattan too), During the 70's/80's,

While, Cats from Brooklyn and Queens took the Dj circuit as a thing of, Rockin for the community, Opposed to rockin to gain notoriety and praise for one's accomplishments and feats(Like alot of cats from the Bronx were doing during the 70's/80's, On the hiphop

Circuit), Rob, That's why the media stepped to the Bronx for information on the hiphop circuit, During the 70's, Without the media including Brooklyn and Queens, For Information(Because, The Bronx took the hiphop culture more seriously than Brooklyn and Queens, During the 70's), Rob, There's no dispute from myself, In regards to the Bronx's

Contributions to the hiphop circuit and hiphop culture when it comes to Dj'ng, MC'ing, Graf, B'Boys, Etc, During the early/mid 70's, Going back to the gang culture with the Black Spades, Etc, Though, The origins and foundation of what would become the hiphop culture was created by the Brooklyn and Queens Dj Circuit, From 1959(John Ausby and Qj

Simpson) to the late 60's/early 70's(Flowers, Plummer Pete Dj Jones, Maboya, King Charles,The Smith Brothers, Along with Hollywood too, Etc), My man, Though, Cats like Pete Dj Jones, Grandmaster Flowers, Plummer, The Smith Brothers, King Charles, Etc, Were the elite Dj's on the mobile dj circuit in New York, During the late 60's to late 70's,

Those cats paved the way for Herc to take the moblie dj circuit even further, By creating a genre for younger cats to follow in regards to rockin throwdowns in the parks in 1974 in the Bronx, My man, Rob, Another very important element that should always be discussed

And respected is, Mad cats from the Bronx(Alot of legends too/LOL), Were to young to travel to Brooklyn and Queens to know what was going on in those area's, In regards to the Mobile Dj circuit, During the 60's/70's, My man/LOL, Rob, I started hanging on the

Hiphop circuit in 1974 at Moringside park in Harlem(123rdst and Moringside Drive in Harlem, Not to far from Grants Tombs on the west-side of Harlem), Now, When i started out hanging in 1974 in Harlem, It was very rare to see any cat from The Bronx and Manhattan,

Coming out to Brooklyn and Queens for anything, During the mid 70's to late 70's, My man(Though, They're were a few cats from The Bronx and Manhattan, Who would come out to Brooklyn and Queens, Via the basketball circuit in those area's during the mid 70's to late 70's), Rob, Now, You take alot of cats from the Bronx not traveling to Brooklyn and Queens at all, Along with mad cats from The Bronx and Manhattan, Being to young to travel to

Brooklyn and Queens, During the mid 70's to late 70's(With the exception of Hollywood, Eddie Chebba, Lovebug Starski), And, You have alot of cats who were not aware of the Dj circuit in Brooklyn and Queens, My man(Exhibit B:My man Van Silk did not know that Ralph McDaniels was a Dj, My Man/LOL), Rob, Van's my man like breakfest in the morning too, My

Man/LOL, Infact, Van Silk is one of the only cats from the Bronx, Who honestly, And Truthfully, Gives Brooklyn and Queens, Mad respect on the hiphop and dj circuit in New York, During the early 70's, My man, Rob, Now on the aspect of cats running obscure plates, On the hiphop circuit for the MC's to rhyme over/LOL, Well, Brooklyn and Queens

(And for that matter Manhattan too/LOL), Ran the breaks of plates that cats were aware of(Along with obscure plates like, 'Get into Something', By The Isley Brothers, 'Theme From Swat', By Rhythm Heritage', 'Listen to me', By Baby Huey', 'Wings of fire', By Dennis Coffey', 'I can't stop', by John Davis and the Monster Orchestra, 'It just begun', By Jimmy Castor Bunch, 'Love the life you live', By Kool and the gang, Etc, Rob, Cats like Flowers,

Maboya, King Charles, Plummer, The Smith Brothers, Disco Twins, Infinity Machine, Cipher Sounds, Phase III, Master D, Fantasia Sounds Dj's of the Music Hut in Brooklyn, Etc, Were running some of the same plates that Bam, Herc, Breakout(Funky 4), Disco King Mario,

Flash, Theodore, Mean Gene(L Brothers), Charlie Chase(Coldcrush), Dj Aj, Jazzy Jay, Imperial JC(Kool Herc's crew)Etc, Were running, My man(Though, The older more established Dj's in Brooklyn and Queens, Were not running obscure plates like the Bronx

Cats were on a regular basis, Because in Brooklyn and Queens, You have to let the record play for the dancers to get loose, Opposed to just rockin the breaks for the B'Boy's MC's to get loose, My man/LOL, Rob, Brooklyn and Queens loved the hiphop culture during the 70's

Too, My man(Though, Not as much as the Bronx, But, They're never would have been a hiphop culture in the Bronx, If it were not for the Dj's from Brooklyn and Queens, During the 1960's to early 70's, Who paved way for the hiphop culture to be born, Via, Herc's

Throwdowns at Cedar park in 1974 and Bam's influence on the gang culture, To stop the madness in the Bronx in 1973, My man, Rob, I used to hang at Valley Park in Co-op city in the Bronx, During the mid to late 70's, Rockin to the sounds of your man Timmy Hall and his man KBJ(Who used rock at The Stardust Ballroom on Gunhill road and Fish ave, During the

Late 70's, Along with Timmy Hall and KBJ rockin throwdowns at New York Tech/Long Island campus, CW Post, Stoney Brook, Adelphi University with Spectrum city From Long Island, Featuring, Hank Shocklee/Keith Shocklee, Chuck-D, Etc, So, I have the utmost of respect,

For the cats around your way in Co-op city in the Bronx, Like, The Funky 4, Kool Kyle, T-Ski Valley, Love Bug Starski, Timmy Hall and KBJ, Etc, My man.

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

Whaddup Mike! I definately acknowledge the history of The earlier jocks such as GM Flowers, Pete Jones(whose names I heard of occassionally back in the day), Mayoba, and Plummer(the last 2 I never heard of till recently/big up to them for planting the seeds as well). Me and my brother who's older than me by 4 years was discussing this a few nights ago and he mentioned alot of the same things you pointed out. However he pointed out that they were more blending jocks who would play the whole song, then extend the break when it came up. Herc, Flash(especially) Break out and Theordore were the ones who played and mixed the breaks only. They brought out back spinning for quickness and played the breaks strictly for the B-boys and then a year or so later for the MCs when that became an art in itself. The more obscure cuts came out as the music and culture was evolving where the MC was takin prominance over the DJ and B-boy. I guess that would be somewhere around 77-78 the time when i took interest in the scene. I started out as a B-boy back then. However by 78 B-boyn(breaking) was starting to get played out in the Bronx(Til it made a comeback in the early 80s)and at that point MCs took prominance forming crews spittn routines and all. I remember my brother and sister use to sing Timmy Hall lyrics which at the time sound very corny to me with that old baritone style. But when he started bringing home Flash tapes and the Furious 4(B4 they were 5), that's when the art of MCing caught my ear. By the time I heard those old Zulu nation tapes with those ill breaks Bam was spinning I was a completely dedicated to the culture. But most of the tapes I was hearing was dudes like Eddie Cheba(baritone dude), Furious 5, Starski(luv Bug), then Busy B, Fantastic 5, Cold Crush 4(the crew that made me start collecting tapes) and Jazzy 5. Most of the cats I was hearing bac then were strictly BX dudes with the exeption ofCrash Crew, Trecherous 3, and Fearless 4 which i heard them on tape in the early 80s. So when people said that Hip hop started in the BX it kind of made sense to me since all the big names I heard of were from the BX.

"Now, When i started out hanging in 1974 in Harlem, It was very rare to see any cat from The Bronx and Manhattan, Coming out to Brooklyn and Queens for anything, During the mid 70's to late 70's, My man(Though, They're were a few cats from The Bronx and Manhattan, Who would come out to Brooklyn and Queens, Via the basketball circuit in those area's during the mid 70's to late 70's), Rob, Now, You take alot of cats from the Bronx not traveling to Brooklyn and Queens at all, Along with mad cats from The Bronx and Manhattan, Being to young to travel to Brooklyn and Queens, During the mid 70's to late 70's(With the exception of Hollywood, Eddie Chebba, Lovebug Starski), And, You have alot of cats who were not aware of the Dj circuit in Brooklyn and Queens"


But Mike the same can be said about BK and QU dudes coming uptown around that same period. Back in NY it was unprecedented for a BX dude to go to BK and vice versa especially if you didn't know nobody there. As far as dudes traveling from other boroughs, I never saw cats from Queens uptown. In fact on most tapes I heard back then when they did the borough shout outs Queens was never there! BK was always thick in the clubs(NOT IN THE HOOD) while the BX and uptown were definately in the house. In the clip of founding fathers dude stated that Flash and Melle Mel came out to Fantasia around 78? Maybe cats uptown never knew about the Queens movement because Queens never came uptown. Ralph Mcdaniels was a DJ, but he spun in spots in QU and BK. Bronx dudes especially Rappers and DJs travelled everywhere. In the 60s early 70s earlier pionners from the BX like Pete Jones(BX) was making his travels along with Tee Scott and Frankie Knuckles who is in fact from the BX as well(Now that's a dance music issue for another date and time)Flash was well know in the 5 boroughs and even the tri-state early!!!. I guarentee you that QU knew about Flash before BX knew about Divine, Disco Twins and the likes(w/ all due respect mind you). But all in all like I said, I trully respect the history and contributions that inspired the hip hop movement from BK and QU pioneers. But I just got bent out of shape when dude in the Founding fathers started the clip by saying "It is though that hip hop started in the Bronx. It did not start in the Bronx"

[Mike Barnes]

Rob, Let Herb know i said, What's happening, My man/LOL, Infact, Ask Herb to come and build with us on this thread(I would really love to read his accounts, Though, Herb and myself have built about the hiphop and dance music circuit a few times before, Through

The years, My man, Rob, Cats from Queens used to travel just as much as cats from Brooklyn, During the 70's/80's, My man, Though, Cats from Queens were not traveling with a fort full of cats like Brooklyn(Who used to travel uptown and the Bronx, For different

Reasons, Not attaining to music, My man/LOL), Rob, The reason why Queens cats were mad quiet at throwdowns during the 70's/80's, Is, That, 'Queens is weak', Nonsense, That cats from Uptown, The Bronx, And, Brooklyn, Were screaming, Was very prevelent during

The 70's/80's, My man, So, For a cat from Queens to respond back to a shout-out from a MC, Promoter, Dj, From Uptown/Harlem, The Bronx or Brooklyn, Could have potentially resulted into a cat from Queens, Getting stung for his jewels, My man(That's why i never responded back to any shout-outs from MC's, Dj's, Promoters, At any throwdowns in The

Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Long Island, Etc/LOL, Rob, Cats from Queens knew about Flash, Hollywood, Eddie Chebba, Lovebug Starski, Les Love(Who used to rock the mic at The Superstar Disco on 34thst and 8thave in Manhattan, Across the street from Madison Square Garden, During the mid 70's to early 80's), Etc, Before cats from the Bronx, Knew about Devine(Infinity Machine), Disco Twins, King Charles, Cipher Sounds, Phase III, Etc,

Because, Queens cats were traveling to the Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn(Though, On the Low/LOL), Opposed to alot of cats that i knew from The Bronx, Uptown/Harlem, Brooklyn, Who used to laugh in my face, After i would ask those cats to come out to Queens to rock at the throwdowns in the parks around the southside/Jamaica,Queens and 127 park in

Astoria,Queens, Rob, I used ask cats from the Bronx(Who i played in basketball tournaments with at Roberto Clemente State Park in the Bronx, By The Major Deegan Expresway and Fordham road, During the mid to late 70's(1975-1978), Well, I used to ask mad cats from the Bronx, To come out Queens to party, And, Cats laughed in my face

(Exhibit B:Queens is weak, There's nothing happening in Queens, To come out too,Etc/LOL), Rob, I used to laugh at that nonsense that cats from the Bronx and Uptown/Harlem, Used to pop, Because, I knew better, My man/LOL), Rob, I've always felt,

The more a cat hung out in other parts of the city(Besides a cats neighborhood), The more a cats truely knows what's going on in different parts of the city(That's why i state that basketball played a very important role in my knowledge of the dance music and hiphop

Circuit, During the 70's/80's, Because, I was playing in alot of basketball tournaments in the Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn from 1974-1978(Along with myself playing in Basketball tournaments in Queens too, My man/LOL), Now, Rob, I have no debate with anyone from the Bronx, In regards to the creation of the hiphop circuit, In regards to cutting, Scratchin,

MC'ing,D'jing, B'boys, Graf, Etc, Especially, The element of cats cuttin and scratchin the breaks only(Exhibit C:Flash, Charlie Chase, Jazzy Jay, Imperial JC, Dj Aj, Theodore, Mean Gene, Etc, Opposed to the older Dj's on the dance music circuit, Who mixed/blended the

Breaks to extend the break part of a plate, In regards to the MC's, Rhyming over(No debate with that, My man/LOL), Rob, My thing is, The origin or foundation for the hiphop circuit to start, Came from the mobile dj circuit cats from the 1960's/early 70's, In regards to rockin in the parks, Cats MC'ing over the breaks of plates(Exhibit D:KC The Prince of Soul, Sedley B, JJ The Disco King, JT Hollywood, Not to be confused with dj

Hollywood/LOL), Etc, So the origins and roots of MC'ing, Can be traced back to Hollywood in 1971 in Harlem(Hollywood used to rock at A bunch of grapes in Harlem in 1971), Along with Pete Dj Jones stating in an interview with Troy in 2005, Pete Dj Jones stated that

Hollywood was the first cat rhyming on plates in the early 70's(Though, Pete Dj Jones did not give an exact year that he saw Hollywood rock the mic, It had to be before 1972 that Pete Dj Jones seen Hollywood rock the mic, Because, Pete Dj Jones had KC the Prince of

Soul, JJ The Disco King, And, JT Hollywood down with him at a spot called, 'McCoy's on 43rdst and 3rdave in Manhattan, In 1972(So, Hollywood, KC The prince of Soul, JJ The Disco King, JT Hollywood, Pre-dates, Coke La-Rock who started rockin the mic with Herc in 1973/74 in the West Bronx, Rob, Queens cats like Infinity Machine, Disco Twins, Cipher

Sounds, King Charles, Etc, Used to rock throwdowns at the Hotel Diplomat(43rdst and 7thave in Manhattan, During the mid 70's to early 80's), The Constellation(43rdst Between 7thave and Broadway), The Superstar Disco(Which was also down the Block from Justines, Featuring, Reggie Wells mixing, During the late 70's to mid 80's), Brooklyn, Long Island,

During the late 70's to early 80's, Etc, Rob, Queens cats did not rock in the Bronx and Harlem, During the 70's(Why, Because, Queens was looked upon as being weak, My man/LOL), Though, Cats from Queens were traveling to the Bronx and Manhattan, On a

Regular basis, During the mid 70's to early 80's, to get loose at the park throwdowns and spots, My man(I know i was, My man/LOL), Rob, Cats like Timmy Hall, KBJ, Kool Kyle,

T-Ski Valley, Etc, Were all biting Hollywood's style of rhyming, My man(Call and response Mixed in with some creative rhymes too), Infact, Every MC from 1971, Was biting Hollywood's style of rhyming, My man(Which was very inspiring to do, In regards rockin a party/LOL), Rob, Cats like Mel, Caz, Moe, Dot(Fantastic 5), Whip(Fantastic 5), Special K,

Evolved and upgraded the art of rhyming to rock a party(Which was started by Hollywood in 1971 in Harlem), To rockin a party being mad creative and cerebral lyrically(Thus, The art of an MC being very lyrical was created in 1978 with Mel, Moe, Caz, My man), Rob,

That cannot be disputed by anyone in regards to the art of the lyrical MC starting in 1977 with Mel, Then, Caz and Moe in 1978, My man, Rob, Brooklyn and Queens did not have that type of dedication and committment to rockin the mic, Other than to rock a party, During the 70's, My man(Though, They're were a few MC's in Queens, Who could hold they're

Heads mad high, Up against, Mel, Moe, Caz, In regards to creative rhymes, Like, Sweety Gee(Who is very highly regarded as one of Queens best MC's of all-time(Along with G.Rap and Mikey-D, Spyder-D),Rob, Brooklyn and Queens loved the hiphop culture, During the

70's/80's, Though, Just not as much as the Bronx(Who embraced the hiphop culture like moring breakfest, My man/LOL), And, They're lies the reason why The Bronx is credited with being the creators of hiphop(Because, Cats from the Bronx embraced the Hiphop culture, Alot more than any other area of the city, During the 70's, My man).

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[robdoe]

Rob, Let Herb know i said, What's happening, My man/LOL, Infact, Ask Herb to come and build with us on this thread(I would really love to read his accounts, Though, Herb and myself have built about the hiphop and dance music circuit a few times before, Through

The years, My man, Rob, Cats from Queens used to travel just as much as cats from Brooklyn, During the 70's/80's, My man, Though, Cats from Queens were not traveling with a fort full of cats like Brooklyn(Who used to travel uptown and the Bronx, For different

Reasons, Not attaining to music, My man/LOL), Rob, The reason why Queens cats were mad quiet at throwdowns during the 70's/80's, Is, That, 'Queens is weak', Nonsense, That cats from Uptown, The Bronx, And, Brooklyn, Were screaming, Was very prevelent during

The 70's/80's, My man, So, For a cat from Queens to respond back to a shout-out from a MC, Promoter, Dj, From Uptown/Harlem, The Bronx or Brooklyn, Could have potentially resulted into a cat from Queens, Getting stung for his jewels, My man(That's why i never responded back to any shout-outs from MC's, Dj's, Promoters, At any throwdowns in The

Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Long Island, Etc/LOL, Rob, Cats from Queens knew about Flash, Hollywood, Eddie Chebba, Lovebug Starski, Les Love(Who used to rock the mic at The Superstar Disco on 34thst and 8thave in Manhattan, Across the street from Madison Square Garden, During the mid 70's to early 80's), Etc, Before cats from the Bronx, Knew about Devine(Infinity Machine), Disco Twins, King Charles, Cipher Sounds, Phase III, Etc,

Because, Queens cats were traveling to the Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn(Though, On the Low/LOL), Opposed to alot of cats that i knew from The Bronx, Uptown/Harlem, Brooklyn, Who used to laugh in my face, After i would ask those cats to come out to Queens to rock at the throwdowns in the parks around the southside/Jamaica,Queens and 127 park in

Astoria,Queens, Rob, I used ask cats from the Bronx(Who i played in basketball tournaments with at Roberto Clemente State Park in the Bronx, By The Major Deegan Expresway and Fordham road, During the mid to late 70's(1975-1978), Well, I used to ask mad cats from the Bronx, To come out Queens to party, And, Cats laughed in my face

(Exhibit B:Queens is weak, There's nothing happening in Queens, To come out too,Etc/LOL), Rob, I used to laugh at that nonsense that cats from the Bronx and Uptown/Harlem, Used to pop, Because, I knew better, My man/LOL), Rob, I've always felt,

The more a cat hung out in other parts of the city(Besides a cats neighborhood), The more a cats truely knows what's going on in different parts of the city(That's why i state that basketball played a very important role in my knowledge of the dance music and hiphop

Circuit, During the 70's/80's, Because, I was playing in alot of basketball tournaments in the Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn from 1974-1978(Along with myself playing in Basketball tournaments in Queens too, My man/LOL), Now, Rob, I have no debate with anyone from the Bronx, In regards to the creation of the hiphop circuit, In regards to cutting, Scratchin,

MC'ing,D'jing, B'boys, Graf, Etc, Especially, The element of cats cuttin and scratchin the breaks only(Exhibit C:Flash, Charlie Chase, Jazzy Jay, Imperial JC, Dj Aj, Theodore, Mean Gene, Etc, Opposed to the older Dj's on the dance music circuit, Who mixed/blended the

Breaks to extend the break part of a plate, In regards to the MC's, Rhyming over(No debate with that, My man/LOL), Rob, My thing is, The origin or foundation for the hiphop circuit to start, Came from the mobile dj circuit cats from the 1960's/early 70's, In regards to rockin in the parks, Cats MC'ing over the breaks of plates(Exhibit D:KC The Prince of Soul, Sedley B, JJ The Disco King, JT Hollywood, Not to be confused with dj

Hollywood/LOL), Etc, So the origins and roots of MC'ing, Can be traced back to Hollywood in 1971 in Harlem(Hollywood used to rock at A bunch of grapes in Harlem in 1971), Along with Pete Dj Jones stating in an interview with Troy in 2005, Pete Dj Jones stated that

Hollywood was the first cat rhyming on plates in the early 70's(Though, Pete Dj Jones did not give an exact year that he saw Hollywood rock the mic, It had to be before 1972 that Pete Dj Jones seen Hollywood rock the mic, Because, Pete Dj Jones had KC the Prince of

Soul, JJ The Disco King, And, JT Hollywood down with him at a spot called, 'McCoy's on 43rdst and 3rdave in Manhattan, In 1972(So, Hollywood, KC The prince of Soul, JJ The Disco King, JT Hollywood, Pre-dates, Coke La-Rock who started rockin the mic with Herc in 1973/74 in the West Bronx, Rob, Queens cats like Infinity Machine, Disco Twins, Cipher

Sounds, King Charles, Etc, Used to rock throwdowns at the Hotel Diplomat(43rdst and 7thave in Manhattan, During the mid 70's to early 80's), The Constellation(43rdst Between 7thave and Broadway), The Superstar Disco(Which was also down the Block from Justines, Featuring, Reggie Wells mixing, During the late 70's to mid 80's), Brooklyn, Long Island,

During the late 70's to early 80's, Etc, Rob, Queens cats did not rock in the Bronx and Harlem, During the 70's(Why, Because, Queens was looked upon as being weak, My man/LOL), Though, Cats from Queens were traveling to the Bronx and Manhattan, On a

Regular basis, During the mid 70's to early 80's, to get loose at the park throwdowns and spots, My man(I know i was, My man/LOL), Rob, Cats like Timmy Hall, KBJ, Kool Kyle,

T-Ski Valley, Etc, Were all biting Hollywood's style of rhyming, My man(Call and response Mixed in with some creative rhymes too), Infact, Every MC from 1971, Was biting Hollywood's style of rhyming, My man(Which was very inspiring to do, In regards rockin a party/LOL), Rob, Cats like Mel, Caz, Moe, Dot(Fantastic 5), Whip(Fantastic 5), Special K,

Evolved and upgraded the art of rhyming to rock a party(Which was started by Hollywood in 1971 in Harlem), To rockin a party being mad creative and cerebral lyrically(Thus, The art of an MC being very lyrical was created in 1978 with Mel, Moe, Caz, My man), Rob,

That cannot be disputed by anyone in regards to the art of the lyrical MC starting in 1977 with Mel, Then, Caz and Moe in 1978, My man, Rob, Brooklyn and Queens did not have that type of dedication and committment to rockin the mic, Other than to rock a party, During the 70's, My man(Though, They're were a few MC's in Queens, Who could hold they're

Heads mad high, Up against, Mel, Moe, Caz, In regards to creative rhymes, Like, Sweety Gee(Who is very highly regarded as one of Queens best MC's of all-time(Along with G.Rap and Mikey-D, Spyder-D),Rob, Brooklyn and Queens loved the hiphop culture, During the

70's/80's, Though, Just not as much as the Bronx(Who embraced the hiphop culture like moring breakfest, My man/LOL), And, They're lies the reason why The Bronx is credited with being the creators of hiphop(Because, Cats from the Bronx embraced the Hiphop culture, Alot more than any other area of the city, During the 70's, My man).

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

Whaddup Mike B in the place to be... Herb said whaddup! You may have to catch him on the humble on DHP in order to build since he makes occasional post on here. Anyway, I think all in all we're both saying the same thing. In retrospect I concluded that early jocks like Flowers(BK), Pete Jones(BX), Mayoba(BK), Plummer(QU) and King Charles(QU) along w/other DJs on the mobile tip of the late 60s/early 70s trully planted seeds to this thing called hip hop with the jams in the parks along w/ extending the breaks to certain cuts. Even GM Flash stated in a interview that his biggest inspiration to mix was GM Flowers while Pete DJ Jones took Flash under his wing. That would probably explain why Flash put "Grandmaster" in front of his name. When Herc started doing parties on Sedwick and Cedar in 73 he was playing the Breaks for the B-boys and the younger sneaker wearing crowd. I believe the defining line in the creation of the culture which set the BX apart from other boroughs is the B-boy who created that whole b-boy/hip hop attitude and then the MC or early lyricis who made his own show in spittn organized raps and routines. As mentioned earlier dudes like Eddie Cheba(Harlem), Luv Bug Starski (BX), Coke La Rock(BX) and DJ Holywood(Harlem) are mentioned as the very 1st MCs or the 1st to talk to the crowd over the music. It's been debated on who was the first to coin the phrase hip hop between Luvbug Starski and DJ Hollywood. However dudes like Melle Mel and Cowboy, Funky 4 and the L brothers were responsible for making MCing an act in itself. The Bronx was the place were the MC took dominace over the DJ on the stage where he was no longer bign up the DJ or shoutn out peeps in the crowd, but biggn up himself on how fly he was and so on and so forth. The BX was also the place where hip hop spinning became it's own style where Flash was getting quick, Theordore was scratchn and Bam brought you ill @$$ breaks. So between those 3 element, once they got perfected, that's what created the culture of Hip Hop(w/ graffiti added as an element later).

"The more a cat hung out in other parts of the city(Besides a cats neighborhood), The more a cats truely knows what's going on in different parts of the city(That's why i state that basketball played a very important role in my knowledge of the dance music and hiphop"

I definately feel you on that which means you had a huge edge on your average Queens cat that wasn't playn ball or doin the mobile dj thing. I had somewhat of the same advantage being that I was a Bronx dude going to HS in BK. My brother did the same before I got up in age. But that's where I had an edge over my dudes who I ran with in the BX. I could tell them what was poppn in Brooklyn as far as the attitude, dance, dresscode ect... It was real cool cause back then I was able to freak cats in BK w/ some of the wears we did uptown along with freakn dudes uptown with little things I picked up in BK. I became an expert in distinquishing the difference between uptown, BX, BK, and QU dudes based on how they dressed, talked and their overall disposition....lol. I'm still doing the same thing living in DC freakn dudes w/ that NY $h!t.

BTW I just had the pleasure of meeting DJ Hollywood this past weekend where he played at my neighborhood reunion(Valley Day 2010/ 25th anniversary). Home grown Timmy Hall and KBJ were in the house along with T Ski Valley and DJ Breakout. I would've love to kick it with dudes on the formation of the culture. But Wood was on the wheels all day and me being all over the place running into old friends, it just never happened. However, I did take a flick with him.

[Mike Barnes]

Rob, We are both building on the very same elements of the hiphop movement(Like you stated earlier), Though, Coming from two different directions(Bronx and Queens, My man/LOL), Rob, On the low, Plummer's from the Bronx, My man(Check out Plummer's

Interview with Troy), Plummer moved to Queens, During his early years in Junior HS and Highschool, Then, Plummer moved to Brooklyn, During his Dj'ing years, During the early 70's,

Rob, I agree with just about everything that you stated earlier(Except the part about Eddie Cheba(Harlem), Luv Bug Starski (BX), Coke La Rock(BX) and DJ Hollywood(Harlem), Being looked upon as the first MC's to talk to the crowd over the music, My man, Rob, I would like to add KC The Prince of Soul(Pete Dj Jones crew), JJ The Disco King(Pete Dj Jones

Crew), Sedley B(Plummer's crew), On the list of the first MC's to talk to the crowd over the music during the arly 70's too, My man, KC the Prince of Soul and JJ The Disco King were down with Pete Dj Jones in 1972, Sedley-B was down with Plummer in 1973/74, Also, It's

Been widely rumored that Cowboy created the term, 'Hiphop', In 1976, Though, It's been widely rumored that Cowboy created the term, 'Throw your hands in the air, And, Wave them like you just don't care', In 1976 too(I have to challenge this one, My man/LOL), Rob,

I have heard Hollywood say, 'Throw your hands in the air, And, Wave them like you just don't care', In 1974 at Moringside Park in Harlem(123rdst and Moringside Drive on the westside of harlem), Though, Creole(Kid Creole from the Furious 5), Was the creator of the

Term, 'Yes,Yes', Y'all', During the mid 70's, Rob, your exactly correct in regards to your comments concerning the Bronx, Setting themselves apart from Brooklyn,Queens, Manhattan, Etc, When it came to the MC being the headliner, Over the Dj, During the late 70's, My man(Exhibit A:Furious 5, L-Brothers, Funky 4, Mighty Force(Caz, Whip, Dot, Disco Whiz), Notorious two(Caz and JDL), Young Sound Masters from Castle Hill, Sherry-

Sher/Mercedes Ladies, PebblePoo/Zulu Nation, Herculiouds/Kool Herc's crew,Etc, Rob, I've always felt that Mel was the one cat who propelled the hiphop movement to greater heights in regards to very creative rhymes, My man/LOL, Rob, I've seen Mel rock a party accapella for 10 plus minutes at the Fantasia in Jamaica,Queens, In 1979(Infinity Machine's

Power was having technical difficulties that night, Thus, The music shut-off for a few, While, Mel was rhyming, Though, Mel kept on rhyming even harder and more creative lyrically after the music shut off, Thus, Causing cats at the Fantasia to witness one of the greatest moments in Hiphop history, My man/LOL, Rob, Was, Kool Kyle at the Valley day

Reunion last weekend, My man(Hollywood was the cat who gave Kool Kyle his first chance to hold a piece of steel infront of a live crowd at Club 371 in the Bronx, In 1976), Also, Kool Kyle was down with the Furious 5(Along with Kurtis Blow too/LOL), During the summer of

1979(For a few weeks the Furious 5 were the Furious 7 in 1979, My man/LOL), Rob, I was doing the very same thing that you stated earlier, In regards to traveling to other parts of the city, And, Coming back around the way, With, Mad slang, Fashions, Phone numbers of

Young ladies in other parts of the city, Etc, My man/LOL, Rob, Basketball played such an important part in my earlier lifetime, In regards to traveling to other parts of the city, And, Seeing what cats wree doing in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Harlem, From 1974 to 1978, My

Man, Rob, For me, It was more about getting around outside of Queens, Opposed to staying around the way, Most of the time, My man, Rob, Hollywood is owed a debt, That cannot be re-payed by the hiphop community, In regards to Hollywood's impact and

Contribution to the hiphop movement, Going back to 1971, Rob, If Hollywood would have patented his rhymes and style with the library of congress in Washington,DC, In regards to copyright protection, Hollywood would be sittin on Billions, My man(That's how many cats bit from the tip, Off of Hollywoods rhymes and style, My man/LOL).

Plummer's Interview:
http://www.oldschoolhiphop.com/inter...djplummer1.htm

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[Vman]

Whaddup Mike B in the place to be... Herb said whaddup! You may have to catch him on the humble on DHP in order to build since he makes occasional post on here. Anyway, I think all in all we're both saying the same thing. In retrospect I concluded that early jocks like Flowers(BK), Pete Jones(BX), Mayoba(BK), Plummer(QU) and King Charles(QU) along w/other DJs on the mobile tip of the late 60s/early 70s trully planted seeds to this thing called hip hop with the jams in the parks along w/ extending the breaks to certain cuts. Even GM Flash stated in a interview that his biggest inspiration to mix was GM Flowers while Pete DJ Jones took Flash under his wing. That would probably explain why Flash put "Grandmaster" in front of his name. When Herc started doing parties on Sedwick and Cedar in 73 he was playing the Breaks for the B-boys and the younger sneaker wearing crowd. I believe the defining line in the creation of the culture which set the BX apart from other boroughs is the B-boy who created that whole b-boy/hip hop attitude and then the MC or early lyricis who made his own show in spittn organized raps and routines. As mentioned earlier dudes like Eddie Cheba(Harlem), Luv Bug Starski (BX), Coke La Rock(BX) and DJ Holywood(Harlem) are mentioned as the very 1st MCs or the 1st to talk to the crowd over the music. It's been debated on who was the first to coin the phrase hip hop between Luvbug Starski and DJ Hollywood. However dudes like Melle Mel and Cowboy, Funky 4 and the L brothers were responsible for making MCing an act in itself. The Bronx was the place were the MC took dominace over the DJ on the stage where he was no longer bign up the DJ or shoutn out peeps in the crowd, but biggn up himself on how fly he was and so on and so forth. The BX was also the place where hip hop spinning became it's own style where Flash was getting quick, Theordore was scratchn and Bam brought you ill @$$ breaks. So between those 3 element, once they got perfected, that's what created the culture of Hip Hop(w/ graffiti added as an element later).

"The more a cat hung out in other parts of the city(Besides a cats neighborhood), The more a cats truely knows what's going on in different parts of the city(That's why i state that basketball played a very important role in my knowledge of the dance music and hiphop"

I definately feel you on that which means you had a huge edge on your average Queens cat that wasn't playn ball or doin the mobile dj thing. I had somewhat of the same advantage being that I was a Bronx dude going to HS in BK. My brother did the same before I got up in age. But that's where I had an edge over my dudes who I ran with in the BX. I could tell them what was poppn in Brooklyn as far as the attitude, dance, dresscode ect... It was real cool cause back then I was able to freak cats in BK w/ some of the wears we did uptown along with freakn dudes uptown with little things I picked up in BK. I became an expert in distinquishing the difference between uptown, BX, BK, and QU dudes based on how they dressed, talked and their overall disposition....lol. I'm still doing the same thing living in DC freakn dudes w/ that NY $h!t.

BTW I just had the pleasure of meeting DJ Hollywood this past weekend where he played at my neighborhood reunion(Valley Day 2010/ 25th anniversary). Home grown Timmy Hall and KBJ were in the house along with T Ski Valley and DJ Breakout. I would've love to kick it with dudes on the formation of the culture. But Wood was on the wheels all day and me being all over the place running into old friends, it just never happened. However, I did take a flick with him.

............good stuff!!..........

[educator]

I would like to know why Fantasy L.T.D from the BRONX who consist of,
Mr Phil STYLES and a young Professor k.c aka Kent Carmona, has not been mention,
alone with everybody like TONY and Timmy and many more to many to mention who had no club at the time ,
i'm talking about 1973 4 and 5 6 we use to work for promoters at the time ,
we work with Winston collection and you also had guys and doll production and a few more
I'm telling my age, if your from New York you know what i'm talking about.
Respond please.

[Mike Barnes]

Eduacator, Ron Lawrence and his man Hassan Pore wanted to depict the impact and contributions of the Hiphop movement during the early/mid 70's, Via the Brooklyn and Queens mobile dj circuits during the late 60's with cats like Flowers(1968), King Charles/Nu-Sounds(1968), Along with Pete Dj Jones(1967) and Hollywood(1971), From The Bronx and Uptown(Manhattan), Thru the early 70's before hiphop was created and thought of, My man(No disrespect to you're crew

Fantasy LTD from the Bronx not being mentioned in the founding Fathers documentary at all, My man), Educator, Can you build with me on you're crew Fantasy LTD going back to 1973 in the Bronx and we're Fantasy LTD traveling outside of the Bronx during the 70's(Along with the other cats that you mentioned earlier, we're those cats traveling outside of the Bronx during the 70's to, My man), Educator, Did you have the opportunity to work with cats like M.Morton Hall, Gene

Pendegrass, Dow Twins, Etc, During the 70's, My man(Educator, Welcome to the DHP board and we all on the board would love to read about you're experiences rockin throwdowns with you're crew Fantasy LTD from the Bronx during the 70's, My man), Educator, Do you remember the Together Brothers from the Bronx,

Who used to rock at the Stardust Ballroom(Fish ave and White Plains road in the Bronx), During the mid 70's, Along with Timmy Hall and his man KBJ from Valley Park in Co-Op City in the Bronx, Also, Educator, Did you're crew Fantasy LTD rock one night at the DownBeat(42ndst and Lexington ave in Manhattan), During the mid 70's(Around 1976), My man.

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[Dziurawe Sample]

Mike, there is possible to watch founding Father movie?

[Dziurawe Sample]

Brevoort Disco Show
Sunday July 31, 1977


"Once again the production of Triangle, brought out the best in ourdoor music. This week a two D.J. showdown. No contest, but showdown. In ring one in the Coliseum was Dynami Soul, who is to me a future prospect in music spinning. 100 or more people jammed with the help of this disco team. And top it off, it was Brevoorts project 34 anniversary,and that was right down their ally, Ring, in the Brevoort Park was over 3.000 watts of pore D.J. power, Fantasia. Now, these boys are the most popular new D.J. ensemble to hit Brooklyn. Well over 55 people came over from the Coliseum, after Dynamic soul ended and mixed with the already packed crowd in the park. Fantasia wasted no time in doing the do. The power they posses is so awesome that they are Brooklyn’s No. 1 powers D.J.’s"

[Dziurawe Sample]

Brevoort’s „Burning Up”


"The outdoor Disco in the Breevort Projects reached its fifth week only this week for D.J.’s put on a show that crammed over 400 party-goers from all over. There were ‘beastlin circles’ every where, with different styles hustline to match. First, Carisma Funk brought on vibes that set things in the proper moods. Bruce and Mike and Bob together did a serious number to the turned on crowd, and wasted no time in doing it. Do Masai Prod was second, and promotly brought the crowd to their side of the purk to present their skills. Back to back boogle by two future D.J.’s with talent, but there was more. With over 3.000 watts of musical sound, came Fantasia who is Brooklyn’s No.1 Powers D.J.’s. it’s seems everyone was waiting to see and hear these brothers perform and how all this power would sound. They were glad they waited. The music was loud and jumping. And all was well."

[Dziurawe Sample]

Disco ’77 by Larry Johnson
The Show Must Go On!!

"Sunday at the Brevoort Coliseum, Triangle Production went into it’s fourth week of outdoor disco. Only it had to be moved to the Kingsboro Projects due to an electrical power problem. Nevertheless, Fantasia Brooklyn’s No. 1 Power D.J.’s did the honors this week and poured out over 3.000 watts of jumping disco sounds into over 100 dancing believers ears. The production consisted of 4 helttfied D.J.’s, Harold, Larry, Jackson and Jimmy. For those of you who have not picked up on the Sunday Affairs at Brevoort, Sundays from 3:00 PM 9: 30 PM is where all the hustlers are coming to display their skills and meet new faces. I highly recommend your appearance soon enough. Sorry about the holdun but things are back to order and the Coliseum will boogie again this Sunday."

[Mike Barnes]

Dziurawe Sample, The Founding Fathers movie has not been released as of yet to the general Public, Though, They're we're a few showings of the, 'Founding Fathers', Documentary in New York and Los Angeles a few years ago(Ron Lawrence stated during an interview at one of the premiere's of the Founding Father's

Documentary in Queens, New York in 2009, That Miramax Studio's was in the house to watch the Founding Father's documentary, Though, I have not heard any information on what the outcome was in regards to Miramax Studio's offering to buy the rights to the Founding Fathers documentary, My man), Dziurawe Sample,

Brooklyn had so many dj's on the dj circuit in New York during the 70's that it would be very hard to include in a documentary all of the cats who gained notoriety for rockin in the parks and spots in Brooklyn and all-over New York City during the 70's, My man.

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[Dziurawe Sample]

Yeah, Brooklyn is mad big area ... Mike ... when Herc created breakbeats was a big shock? There (Brooklyn, BX, Queens) is was something like 'oh my God, in tha Bx one cat makes hell funky stuff'?

[Mike Barnes]

Dziurawe Sample, Brevoort Projects(Which was ths spot partaining to the article in regards to Fantasia Sounds rockin at during the mid/late 70's), Used to have one of the toughest basketball tournaments in New York City during the 70's, Which was called, 'Breevort Tournament', Which consisted of the top cats from Brooklyn on the New York City basketball circuit during the early 70's to early 80's, Notable cats from Brooklyn like Al King(Fort Hamilton HS), Al Dean/Rip(Tilden HS), Curtis

Redding(Canarsie HS), George Johnson(New Utrecht)Ty Ladson(Canarsie HS), Kelvin Hicks(Brooklyn Tech), Larry Washington(Canarsie), Rolando Blackman(Grady), Chris Mullin(Xavarian), Bernard King(Fort Hamilton), Sam Worthen(Franklin K.Lane), Fly Williams(James Madison), Lloyd Free(Canarsie), Jocko(Canarsie), Stretch Graham(Lafeyette), Earl Fuller(Southshore), Cosell Brown(Hamilton), Beetle Washington(Hamilton), Pearl Washington(Boys High), Ricky Free(Boys High), Ed Davender(Hamilton/Boys High),

Sid Green(Jefferson), John Salley(Canarsie), Vinnie Johnson(FDR), And countless other cats have played in the Breevort tournament during the early 70's to early 80's, My man, Dziurawe Sample, Around 1977 was the time Frankie-D from Marcy Projects came on the mobile Dj circuit in Brooklyn too, My man(Frankie-D was another forgotten Brooklyn Legend during the 70's/early 80's, My man), Dziurawe Sample, I don't understand your response in regards to you stating that Herc

Created breakbeats(Do you mean, Herc was the first cat to rock the breaks on a plate back and forth to extend the music that he was rockin, My man), If so, Well/LOL, That can be very highly disputed to by cats like Pete dj Jones(Who was rockin the breaks of plates during the early 70's(Around 1971/72), Flowers, King Charles(Nu-Sounds from Queens), The Smith Brothers, Etc, My man, Dziurawe Sample, That's why the Founding Fathers documentary is extremely important to add

Alot more confirmation to the facts of who was doing what with proof of a cat doing it, Because, Mad cats from the Bronx we're not traveling outside the Bronx to see or know what cats in Brooklyn and Queens and even Manhattan we're doing on the dj circuit in New York City during the late 60's to early 70's, When cats like Pete Dj Jones, Flowers, Qj Simpson, John Ausby, King Charles, Maboya, The Smith Brothers, Etc, We're on the mobile dj circuit in New York City, Infact, Hollywood

Was rockin in spots(Clubs), In Harlem in 1971/72 and alot of cats from the Bronx(No all, But alot/LOL), Refuse to acknowledge and respect Hollywood for his impact and contributions to the hiphop circuit during the early 70's(When Hiphop had no-name and identity in 1971/72, and the reason for that is alot of the cats who state what was happening on the hiphop circuit during the early/mid 70's, We're to young to know what was going on due to age,

So, Alot of cats we're hearing what other older cats we're telling them without the older cats traveling outside of the Bronx to fully know who was doing what in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan too, My man/LOL, And alot of the disrespect for Hollywood via cats from the Bronx(Not all cats from the Bronx, But, A vast number of cats from the Bronx/LOL), Has to do with ego to(To continue for cats to soup up the same cats from the Bronx for they're contributions to the hiphop movement during the early/mid 70's without

Acknowledging and respecting anybody's else's impact and contributions to the hiphop movement before they're was a hiphop movement during the late 60's/early 70's, My man/LOL), Dziurawe Sample, Hollywood was there at the very start of the hiphop movement of the early 70's(Hollywood was the first cat to rock the mic at a spot in 1971/72 and these are the words of Pete dj Jones who stated this bit of information during an interview with Jayquan on the thafoundation.com hiphop site

That my man Troy from Uptown runs and that Pete Dj Jones interview was from 2004, Also, Pete Dj Jones name rung mad bells all-over New York in 1971/72, So when Pete Dj Jones states that Hollywood was the first cat to rock the mic at a party in 1971/72, I most definitely believe him(Pete Dj Jones), My man(Money has no reason to soup Hollywood up, Since Hollywood's name was ringing bells in Harlem in 1972 too), My man, Dziurawe Sample, The theme of the Founding Fathers

Documentary is to show and depict the many dj's who we're on the mobile dj circuit in Brooklyn and Queens during the late 60's(Exhibit A:Qj Simpson, John Ausby, Flowers, Etc), and Queens(King Charles/NU-Sounds), Etc, Along with countless other cats and crews who came along after those cats during the early to mid 70's and the impact that all of those cats from Brooklyn and Queens had on the moble dj circuit in Brooklyn and Queens and the impact that all of those cats had on what would

become the hiphop movement during the early/mid 70's with cats like Herc, Bambatta, And countless other cats in crews from the Bronx without trying to exclude cats from the Bronx for their accomplishments, But, To give praise and respect to the cats that alot of folks from New York City and all over the world no nothing about(The un-sung cats who played a very big part in the early development of the hiphop movement during the early/mid 70's via rockin throwdowns in the parks and Beaches of Brooklyn and Queens during the late 60's to mid 70's and there after, My man).

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[Dziurawe Sample]

OK, Mike ... so all world say Herc was started breakbeats ... i know before him was another cats, but why Herc is first?

Maybe Other cats spinnig disco breaks, only disco ... people says Herc started spinning heavy hardcore breaks ... what do you think?

Peace!

[Dziurawe Sample]

... and after Herc's firt party was a massive shock? Herc was a famous from his style?

[Mike Barnes]

Dziurawe Sample, The Bronx was stepped to first by the media in regards to park throwdowns in New York City(Being an attraction in the community via dj'ing during the early/mid 70's), Though, The media was not aware of Brooklyn and Queens for rockin throwdowns in the parks to run up on cats like Flowers, King Charles, The Smith Brothers, Maboya, Plummer, Etc, To put a mic in they're faces to ask questions on this new wave of entertaining the community via music that

Had cats and young ladies dancing in the parks in Brooklyn and Queens going back to 1959 with John Ausby and Qj Simpson in Brooklyn, Which evolved into cats like Pete Dj Jones, Flowers, King Charles, Maboya, The Smith Brothers, Plummer, Etc, To come along and start rockin throwdowns in the parks and spots during the late 60's/early 70's, My man, Dziurawe Sample, Herc had the first opportunity to display what he was doing in regards to rockin throwdowns in the parks to the

Media in 1974 at Cedar Park in the Bronx, Yet, Cats in Brooklyn and Queens we're doing it(Rockin throwdowns in the parks), Since 1959(John Ausby and Qj Simpson), Thru the late 60's(Flowers in 1968) and King Charles/Nu-Sounds in Queens since 1968), My man, Also, Cats from Brooklyn and Queens we're not screaming out what was happening on the mobile Dj circuit during the 60's and early 70's, Because cats we're all about rockin a party via flyers being circulated and

Word of mouth on the streets for the cats who we're truley hanging hard like that to know, So, The media was un-aware or maybe not interested in finding out more about what was taking place in Brooklyn and Queens in regards to park throwdowns during the early 70's, Since the media stepped to Herc first, Maybe, The media felt they had enough information on this new wave of attracting and entertaining cats in the community(Dj'ing), My man, Dziurawe Sample, I heard Herc rockin at

Truman HS(Which is located on the Bruckner Expressway near Co-Op City in the Bronx), In 1975 and i was not impressed(No dis-respect, But, At that time in 1975, I heard Flowers, Pete Dj Jones, Plummer, Maboya, The Smith Brothers, King Charles and Hollywood in 1974 at Moringside Park in Harlem, So i had the opportunity to hear quite a few cats who was extremely talented in regards to rockin a party and Herc was nice with his and Herc was rockin too that day at Truman HS in the Bronx in

1975, Yet i preferred the styles of all of the cats that i mentioned earlier over Herc(Again, No dis-respect tor anyone from the Bronx, Though, Pete Dj Jones is from the Bronx too/LOL), Dziurawe Sample, Herc was rockin obscure breaks(Exhibit B:'Get into Something', By the Isley Brothers, 'Apache', By Michael Viner's Bongo band', 'Listen to me', By Baby Huey, 'Love the life you live', By Black Heat, Etc, Though, Herc was runnin well-known plates like, 'Touch and Go', By Esctacy, Passion

And Pain, 'Hum along and Dance', By The Jackson 5, 'Melting Pot', By Booker T and the MG's, 'Keep on Truckin', By Eddie Kendricks, Etc, And cats like Pete Dj Jones and Flowers we're runnin obscure breaks too when i heard those cats in 1975 a few weeks before i heard Herc, That's one of the reasons why i was not impressed with Herc's style of rockin breaks(Flowers and Pete Dj Jones we're alot more talented and skilled rockin breaks than Herc was, Because Pete Dj Jones and Flowers used to catch the breaks alot faster and cleaner than Herc was catchin the breaks in 1975, My man.

Much Respect
Mike Barnes