Who ever said homeownership is a money pit ain't NEVER lied!

[Mike Johnson]

Originally posted by Leslie:
I also have friends who got preapproved for ridiculous amounts and the have RE Agents taking them to see stuff way out of their reach and on top of which in many parts of NJ, bidding wars are STILL going on for houses. Mine was right place, right time, right price, right taxes, right maintenance fee. I was fortunate.

So then why are you complaining? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Mike Johnson]

Yeah, as my wife says, "Handy Dan's" (aka Home Depot or Lowe's) has become a "date night" for us. Just finished remodeling the second bathroom last month, a remodeling of one of the bedrooms is next on the list, then new flooring for the living room, kitchen and adjoining dining room, then the attic, and new wallpaper for the kitchen, and then, and then .......... you get the picture!

[Leslie]

[quote]Originally posted by Mike Johnson:

So then why are you complaining? [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QB]

I'd call it momentary venting after a call with the electrician - surely given all you and the wife have done you've done a little bit of that yourself at some point [img]smile.gif[/img]

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
don't believe the hype, buy a house, but do your homework and invest in an inspection.

groove along with cheap housing you also get innovative cuisine in the dirty, ie, steak nuggets = fried pig scrotum

Anybody who buys a home and doesn't get it inspected is nuts The point here is that you have to be aware of the costs and factor that in in the beginning. We have had no surprises with the house that we bought. All the outlays have been planned. We had it inspected when we bought it and knew all the expenses down the road (10 years later) that we were facing. No regrets.. :D

-G </font>[/QUOTE]keep in mind that as you continue to work your income should increase, so your ability to afford particular houses increases as well. its a matter of financial philosphy, some people stretch themselves on the first home with the realization that over time it won't be a struggle yet the asset they purchased has appreciated or increased in value at a much higher rate than a cheaper home would have. another way of looking at it is to buy one cheaper asset and then down the road buy a second one and use it as a rental property </font>[/QUOTE]Rather than going out and buying another asset and assuming another mortage (I don't want to be a landlord) I would rather own the first home free and clear by taking the increases in income and using it to pay off my mortgage sooner.

-G

[mhd]

Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
don't believe the hype, buy a house, but do your homework and invest in an inspection.

groove along with cheap housing you also get innovative cuisine in the dirty, ie, steak nuggets = fried pig scrotum

Anybody who buys a home and doesn't get it inspected is nuts The point here is that you have to be aware of the costs and factor that in in the beginning. We have had no surprises with the house that we bought. All the outlays have been planned. We had it inspected when we bought it and knew all the expenses down the road (10 years later) that we were facing. No regrets.. :D

-G </font>[/QUOTE]keep in mind that as you continue to work your income should increase, so your ability to afford particular houses increases as well. its a matter of financial philosphy, some people stretch themselves on the first home with the realization that over time it won't be a struggle yet the asset they purchased has appreciated or increased in value at a much higher rate than a cheaper home would have. another way of looking at it is to buy one cheaper asset and then down the road buy a second one and use it as a rental property </font>[/QUOTE]Rather than going out and buying another asset and assuming another mortage (I don't want to be a landlord) I would rather own the first home free and clear by taking the increases in income and using it to pay off my mortgage sooner.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, but what do you do with all that loot once you pay off the mortgage? how much would it take to get over your disdain of being a landlord? what if you purchased a 4 unit building and the rent from one of the units paid the mortgage and the rent from one of the other units paid the mortgage of your first home, and you are banking the rent from the other two? Feel like becoming a landlord yet? how about the building is steadily appreciating and in fact doubles in value in six years, of course you have increased rent as well so your monthly net has also increased.

back to the original question, what are gonna do with the loot? how about a gallery for linda? just some thoughts, no right or wrong, peace, mark

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
don't believe the hype, buy a house, but do your homework and invest in an inspection.

groove along with cheap housing you also get innovative cuisine in the dirty, ie, steak nuggets = fried pig scrotum

Anybody who buys a home and doesn't get it inspected is nuts The point here is that you have to be aware of the costs and factor that in in the beginning. We have had no surprises with the house that we bought. All the outlays have been planned. We had it inspected when we bought it and knew all the expenses down the road (10 years later) that we were facing. No regrets.. :D

-G </font>[/QUOTE]keep in mind that as you continue to work your income should increase, so your ability to afford particular houses increases as well. its a matter of financial philosphy, some people stretch themselves on the first home with the realization that over time it won't be a struggle yet the asset they purchased has appreciated or increased in value at a much higher rate than a cheaper home would have. another way of looking at it is to buy one cheaper asset and then down the road buy a second one and use it as a rental property </font>[/QUOTE]Rather than going out and buying another asset and assuming another mortage (I don't want to be a landlord) I would rather own the first home free and clear by taking the increases in income and using it to pay off my mortgage sooner.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, but what do you do with all that loot once you pay off the mortgage? how much would it take to get over your disdain of being a landlord? what if you purchased a 4 unit building and the rent from one of the units paid the mortgage and the rent from one of the other units paid the mortgage of your first home, and you are banking the rent from the other two? Feel like becoming a landlord yet? how about the building is steadily appreciating and in fact doubles in value in six years, of course you have increased rent as well so your monthly net has also increased.

back to the original question, what are gonna do with the loot? how about a gallery for linda? just some thoughts, no right or wrong, peace, mark </font>[/QUOTE]True, no absolute right or wrong. If I was able to purchase a 4 unit building as you describe above taking everything into account, I would be a fool not to buy it -and I'm no fool
:D

What am I gonna do with the loot? If there is anything left over after:

1. All our debts are paid
2. After banking 8 months of living expenses
3. After maximizing our 403(b)'s
4. After maximizing our Roth-IRA's
5. After owning our primary residence

6. How did you know about the Gallery for Linda?

Anyway I have friends who have purchased 4 and 8 units buildings in Madison. I am watching what they do carefully. Right now I don't see it.

-G

[GROOVE VICTIM]

GMAN, do you have any good links for IRA's? This is something that I've been interested in learning about.

Peace

[kara]

its the cheapest loan out there right now .. i just signed my mortgage at 6% - dirt cheap

now i have twice the space for less than my rent has been .. and im paying my OWN mortgage every month now, not my ahole landlords



its great for your credit, owning equity ... and in DC, there are great housing programs ($15,000 grants for firsttime homeowners) and tax credits ($5,000 credit the first year) ... i'll come out paying like $300 less a month this first year ... for a better place

i think its the smartest thing to do if you can, but like someone said, not to go over your budget ... which is tempting when loans are offered

[kara]

go to merryl lynch .com thats who i have all my roth ira's with

$3000/year max - and all tax free on the way in and OUT ... the only program like it .. its the ONE thing , the minimum thing i think everyone should do for savings .. it makes the most sense financially ... the govts not getting a DIME! off ya

[darrow]

I feel the Homeowners Pain.

Before july of last year, my weekends were spent riding my bike, hanging out, or taking weekend jaunts.

Now I pack a lunch and emergency supplies and spend all day in Home Depot, Lowes, The Great Indoors (We have yet to buy anything from that joint...why do we go?), and definitely too many tile/flooring/lighting places.

Ahhhh...the American Dream.

[kara]

heh heh

yep - shopping for new threads for the party out has turned into shopping for furniture and paint colors

oh the excitement

lol

[Chip_E]

Oh my freakin' RonHardyLarryLevan,

Anybody that says home ownership is a pain, bought the wrong home.
If you don't own a home, you are essentially homeless. If you lose your job while renting, it'll take your landlord about 30 to 90 days to evict you. If you lose your job while OWNING a home, it'll take a minimum of 18 months to evict you.
Even if you bought a house and it never appreciated, you will still have saved money due to the tax savings on paying a mortgage versus rent.

My suggestions for anyone considering a home:
1. Visit a mortgage broker.
The broker can tell you what it will take to get your credit in order so that you can be approved for a mortgage.
2. Don't buy anything on credit.
While it's good to have a lot of credit history, it's not good to have a lot of credit debt, or even a lot of credit cards.
3. Don't buy more house than you can afford.
It's been said before in this thread, don't let the mortgage broker, realtor, or even the market dictate how much you will pay for a house. The Realtor and lender want to make as much commision as possibe (can you blame them) but it's up to you to say, "No, although I'm approved for $200K, I'd like to buy a $135K home".

If anyone is seriously interested in INVESTIGATING home ownership, please drop me a line... chip_e@mac.com

I became a Realtor, just so that I could help friends transition from renting to owning.

-e.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
don't believe the hype, buy a house, but do your homework and invest in an inspection.

groove along with cheap housing you also get innovative cuisine in the dirty, ie, steak nuggets = fried pig scrotum

Anybody who buys a home and doesn't get it inspected is nuts The point here is that you have to be aware of the costs and factor that in in the beginning. We have had no surprises with the house that we bought. All the outlays have been planned. We had it inspected when we bought it and knew all the expenses down the road (10 years later) that we were facing. No regrets.. :D

-G </font>[/QUOTE]keep in mind that as you continue to work your income should increase, so your ability to afford particular houses increases as well. its a matter of financial philosphy, some people stretch themselves on the first home with the realization that over time it won't be a struggle yet the asset they purchased has appreciated or increased in value at a much higher rate than a cheaper home would have. another way of looking at it is to buy one cheaper asset and then down the road buy a second one and use it as a rental property </font>[/QUOTE]Rather than going out and buying another asset and assuming another mortage (I don't want to be a landlord) I would rather own the first home free and clear by taking the increases in income and using it to pay off my mortgage sooner.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]fair enough, but what do you do with all that loot once you pay off the mortgage? how much would it take to get over your disdain of being a landlord? what if you purchased a 4 unit building and the rent from one of the units paid the mortgage and the rent from one of the other units paid the mortgage of your first home, and you are banking the rent from the other two? Feel like becoming a landlord yet? how about the building is steadily appreciating and in fact doubles in value in six years, of course you have increased rent as well so your monthly net has also increased.

back to the original question, what are gonna do with the loot? how about a gallery for linda? just some thoughts, no right or wrong, peace, mark </font>[/QUOTE]True, no absolute right or wrong. If I was able to purchase a 4 unit building as you describe above taking everything into account, I would be a fool not to buy it -and I'm no fool
:D

What am I gonna do with the loot? If there is anything left over after:

1. All our debts are paid
2. After banking 8 months of living expenses
3. After maximizing our 403(b)'s
4. After maximizing our Roth-IRA's
5. After owning our primary residence

6. How did you know about the Gallery for Linda?

Anyway I have friends who have purchased 4 and 8 units buildings in Madison. I am watching what they do carefully. Right now I don't see it.

-G </font>[/QUOTE]i like your philosophy, pretty conservative, but very prudent, i'm swinging for the fences so i get more homeruns but also a lot of strikeouts. at the end of the day, you will be flush and i might be asking you for a loan lol!

the gallery for Linda just makes sense, thats a great goal. i would be curious as to the prices of 4 & 8 units in madison, i wonder what about it you don't like.

[mhd]

Originally posted by Chip_E:
Oh my freakin' RonHardyLarryLevan,

Anybody that says home ownership is a pain, bought the wrong home.
If you don't own a home, you are essentially homeless. If you lose your job while renting, it'll take your landlord about 30 to 90 days to evict you. If you lose your job while OWNING a home, it'll take a minimum of 18 months to evict you.
Even if you bought a house and it never appreciated, you will still have saved money due to the tax savings on paying a mortgage versus rent.

My suggestions for anyone considering a home:
1. Visit a mortgage broker.
The broker can tell you what it will take to get your credit in order so that you can be approved for a mortgage.
2. Don't buy anything on credit.
While it's good to have a lot of credit history, it's not good to have a lot of credit debt, or even a lot of credit cards.
3. Don't buy more house than you can afford.
It's been said before in this thread, don't let the mortgage broker, realtor, or even the market dictate how much you will pay for a house. The Realtor and lender want to make as much commision as possibe (can you blame them) but it's up to you to say, "No, although I'm approved for $200K, I'd like to buy a $135K home".

If anyone is seriously interested in INVESTIGATING home ownership, please drop me a line... chip_e@mac.com

I became a Realtor, just so that I could help friends transition from renting to owning.

-e.

great points chip, do you specialize in any part of town?

[Chip_E]

MYTHS of Home Ownership

1. I need to save 20% for a downpayment.
WRONG, most people come in with 2% to 5% down, and there are mortgage programs with 0% down.

2. A mortgage costs more than rent.
WRONG, I've seen many people transition from renting to owning and pay less on a mortgage, for more space. Even if your mortgage payment is the same as your rent payment, you save money because of the tax benefits. Of course if you buy a house that is more expensive than you can afford...your payment will be more. Essentially, it's up to you.

3. You need perfect credit to get a mortgage.
WRONG, it's actually easier to buy a house than it is to buy a car. Think about it, you can't drive-off with a house. While a car is considered a "signature loan", a house is collateral. Banks will take reasonable risks on granting mortgages.

4. Housing in Chicago costs too much.
WRONG, depending on the area you want to live in, you can find affordable housing in the city or the suburbs. There are single-family houses in Chicago for as little as $70K. Of course they're older, and will require some work to make them perfect. There are condominiums on LakeShore Drive for as little as $70K (ready to move into).

Here's an example of what it could look like...
$70K home purchase
6% Interest Rate
30 Year Mortgage
$1400 (2%) downpayment
$1500 (estimated) closing costs
------------------------------
$2900 (total out of pocket costs...of course, it's possible for a lower amount with 0% down and/or having the seller pay closing costs)

Bottom line, your monthly payment in this scenario would be approximately $527.
The $527 includes an estimated $800 for annual taxes and $500 for home-owner's insurance.

$527 bucks a month for a place that is YOURS.
For a place that you can paint whatever color you want, pound whatever nails you want, play music in as loud as you want (within reason).

Again, if anyone wants to discuss this offline...contact me at
chip_e@mac.com

-e.

[ March 25, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Chip_E ]

[Ken1015]

Originally posted by Chip_E:
Oh my freakin' RonHardyLarryLevan,

Anybody that says home ownership is a pain, bought the wrong home.

Oh yeah? Well I bought the right house and it's still a pain. Why you gotta go gettin' all logical and what not? Just let us vent.

A couple of years ago in the Weekend Journal section of The WSJ, they did a story on this very subject. The conclusion the story came to was that every house was a money pit. Old ones as well as new ones. Stuff breaks down and has to be replaced. Styles change. The timeline they gave for new homes was about 5 years before things start falling apart.

Yes, home ownership does provide a great deal of satifaction and pride but it also can be just as frustrating as it is satisfying and it is virtually impossible for most people to plan and budget for everything that will require attention.

[kara]

70K is not very much ... a 1 BR apartment in dc is $200K

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by mhd:
i like your philosophy, pretty conservative, but very prudent, i'm swinging for the fences so i get more homeruns but also a lot of strikeouts. at the end of the day, you will be flush and i might be asking you for a loan lol!

the gallery for Linda just makes sense, thats a great goal. i would be curious as to the prices of 4 & 8 units in madison, i wonder what about it you don't like.

Concerning the 4 & 8 units in Madison that my friends have bought, ..location... location ... location. Cheap but high crime,drugs, problem tenants. One friend over extended himself by building a new home in a very nice neighborhood then buying a 4 unit rental unit. He had to sell the new home and move into a smaller more affordable house. I think their hope is that the neighborhoods will change for the better which has happened in other parts of Madison. The other friend spends a lot of his free time dealing with issues that come up relating to the 8 unit building. He does some maintenance himself but has a management company deal with collecting the rent and emergencies.

For me to invest in rental units right now the numbers just have to make sense balanced with an acceptable amount of risk (location,housing market,bad tenants,maintenance) balanced with the feeling that I don't won't the hassle of being a landlord.

The funny thing is that they sometimes get offered sex in place of the rent :D

-G

[ March 25, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Gman ]

[kara]

sex in place of rent

[imported_Gman]

Originally posted by kara:
sex in place of rent

I take it you have never owned rental property ?

[mhd]

Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mhd:
i like your philosophy, pretty conservative, but very prudent, i'm swinging for the fences so i get more homeruns but also a lot of strikeouts. at the end of the day, you will be flush and i might be asking you for a loan lol!

the gallery for Linda just makes sense, thats a great goal. i would be curious as to the prices of 4 & 8 units in madison, i wonder what about it you don't like.

Concerning the 4 & 8 units in Madison that my friends have bought, ..location... location ... location. Cheap but high crime,drugs, problem tenants. One friend over extended himself by building a new home in a very nice neighborhood then buying a 4 unit rental unit. He had to sell the new home and move into a smaller more affordable house. I think their hope is that the neighborhoods will change for the better which has happened in other parts of Madison. The other friend spends a lot of his free time dealing with issues that come up relating to the 8 unit building. He does some maintenance himself but has a management company deal with collecting the rent and emergencies.

For me to invest in rental units right now the numbers just have to make sense balanced with an acceptable amount of risk (location,housing market,bad tenants,maintenance) balanced with the feeling that I don't won't the hassle of being a landlord.

The funny thing is that they sometimes get offered sex in place of the rent :D

-G </font>[/QUOTE]two things i know about madison, it has a university and a hood. a couple of strategies to consider, madison has some govt. agency that deals with proposed development. you might be able to call the madison office of economic development or urban planning and ask them for the 5 or ten year plan. its a public record. nowadays a lot of that development is going in the center of cities and spreading out. in the past, development was from the outside in. most cities now are experiencing a renaissance, so if you can figure out where development is heading you can be in front of the curve.

some friends did that and purchased 4 units for 30-40k some other friends then brought the same units for 125k and they still got a bargain.

you are saying the magic words, location and acceptable amount of risk. i hope your boy has some cute tenants

[kara]

Originally posted by Gman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kara:
sex in place of rent

I take it you have never owned rental property ? </font>[/QUOTE]no but i might look into it now ;)

[Chip_E]

Soulful,
I hear what you're sayin...but you are truly blessed to be able to complain about your home, rather than your landlord. "I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man that had no feet".

Kara,
Yeah...$70K is not a lot for a place to live, and it won't get you into the downtown areas of Chicago, but it will get you a safe/affordable place to live.

MHD,
I specialize in the areas where cool people live. ;) That includes the City and Suburbs.

-e.

[Chip_E]

I was off on the tax calculation.
Just pulled some listings for condos in Chicago.
Taxes range from about $500 to $1100 per year.
I corrected the post above.
In short, a $70K condo will cost you around $527 per month...plus an association fee (ranging from zero to about $200 depending on the services).

-e.

[Boriafro]

can u pay the rent now? think about it!

love will save the day!