Bullfighting... take a stance.

[MarkK]

You know I love you Negso, but perhaps hunting in the USA is one topic you are not an expert on?

Regardless, the fact the people hunt does not make bullfighting or dogfighting any less disgusting. I will admit I am sort of an enigma on this issue, but the vast majority of those opposed to bullfighting and/or dogfighting are even more strongly against hunting.

So even if you think I am inconsistent, I really am not representative of those opposed to bullfighting.

Make your pro-bullfighting argument to the vegan/plastic shoe wearing protester.

[ngeso]

I understand nothing about either hunting or bullfighting.

But I do understand actionism as a means of deflection from real responsibility. I have a reflexive mistrust regarding decreed instances or areas of suffering and the often erratic and myopic solutions suggested, because more often than not the erraticism comes from quarters that do not understand what suffering really is, but think that if they can agitate as do-gooders in some de-contextualised fashion, that somehow makes the world a better place to be in. I have argued countless times about how that is grand scale rubbish.

I simply cannot champion the cause of corrida bulls as a humanitarian exercise on the basis of the arguments against bullfighting presented so far, because I know in the grand scheme of things the inhumanity involved is insignificant. Moreso: I believe action to ban bullfighting will actually increase inhumane action elsewhere.

But I'll keep on studying - perhaps I'll come up with other, contrary arguments.

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[the crackhouse]

Moreso: I believe action to ban bullfighting will actually increase inhumane action elsewhere.


...

What do you mean?
You think there's a geographic balance, speaking of inhumane actions?

Idance

[upliftdisco365]

I'm a hunter and proud to be one.

I bow hunt because I think that guns give me too much of an advantage over the prey (though I carry a pistol as a backup for personal safety).

I dunno... Still seems unfair; you being able to launch a deadly projectile and all. If you were concerned about fairness, you'd go out there with a hammer and a fucking football helmet (with a back up hammer for personal safety). Now that's gamesmanship!

[ngeso]

What do you mean?
You think there's a geographic balance, speaking of inhumane actions?

Idance

I think if 100 million Europeans and Americans who eat steak elect to eat 5 steaks an Schnitzel less a year, that'll be 250.000 cows and calves saved from a life of 100% misery. That, IMO, is a cause that makes much more sense than banning a tradition and a culture we do not understand and then feeling somehow good about ourselves because we think we have achieved something worthwhile.


...

[the crackhouse]

I think if 100 million Europeans and Americans who eat steak elect to eat 5 steaks an Schnitzel less a year, that'll be 250.000 cows and calves saved from a life of 100% misery. That, IMO, is a cause that makes much more sense than banning a tradition and a culture we do not understand and then feeling somehow good about ourselves because we think we have achieved something worthwhile.


...

Ok. Again my bad english got me wrong.
This would be really great, if we don't want to make war for water, after these war for oil.

Idance

[Armento]

But I do understand actionism as a means of deflection from real responsibility. I have a reflexive mistrust regarding decreed instances or areas of suffering and the often erratic and myopic solutions suggested, because more often than not the erraticism comes from quarters that do not understand what suffering really is, but think that if they can agitate as do-gooders in some de-contextualised fashion, that somehow makes the world a better place to be in. I have argued countless times about how that is grand scale rubbish.

...

dang.. i need a dictionary for this paragraph

[ngeso]

dang.. i need a dictionary for this paragraph

Yeah, I need to tone that shit down.

[the crackhouse]

Yeah, I need to tone that shit down.

Ngeso, try to tone that down the day you start speaking out loud in the street while walking alone.

Idance

[MarkK]

Yeah, I need to tone that shit down.

My brain broke trying to read that. I guess I am just a good ole' country boy after all.

Have a good weekend, its going to be raining here so I will be watching the Tour.

[mhd]

Yeah, I need to tone that shit down.

nah, man, keep it up, command of the english language is an art

[ngeso]

Ok. Again my bad english got me wrong.
This would be really great, if we don't want to make war for water, after these war for oil.

Idance

Next big thing is war for sunlight. They're going to build huge photovoltaic plants in Africa and charge us an arm and a leg for electricity. Watch.

Seriously, I'm already cringing at Africans fucking up a big deal, again. If we had a shred of sense, this would be our ticket out of poverty.

...

[the crackhouse]

Next big thing is war for sunlight. They're going to build huge photovoltaic plants in Africa and charge us an arm and a leg for electricity. Watch.

Seriously, I'm already cringing at Africans fucking up a big deal, again. If we had a shred of sense, this would be our ticket out of poverty.

...

Tell me where Africa fucked up a deal, when there's almost zero countries in Africa which are truly operated by Africans or by the people?

I guess the terrorism on this desert' sun project will be huge. They are still waiting for a solution for the materials needed to build this. Hallo, China?

Idance

[Moksha]

I think if 100 million Europeans and Americans who eat steak elect to eat 5 steaks an Schnitzel less a year, that'll be 250.000 cows and calves saved from a life of 100% misery. That, IMO, is a cause that makes much more sense than banning a tradition and a culture we do not understand and then feeling somehow good about ourselves because we think we have achieved something worthwhile.


...

yes, industrial meat production is more cruel to animals than bullfighting. (not sure that anybody has opposed that view, and I for one would not eat a mammal). That, however, does not mean that bullfighting is not cruel and inhumane and deserving of a ban.

The killing isn't the product. It is the slow, painful torture that is the product.

What's truly disgusting isn't the death of an animal, but the perverse, sadistic pleasure it gives a certain type of human.

[El Mayimbe]

Negso, wild game is not raised to die, bulls are. Big difference. Wild game is eaten, bulls are not.

um, youre BOTh kinda wrong. One of the best meals i had in pamplona was Bulls tail. it has to be cooked for hours but it tastes so goooOOOOooooD!

[BrazenMuse]

there's just something off-putting about telling people they have to end their traditions because we don't like them. You know people out there think we're a bunch of assholes for wasting all of those pumpkins around Halloween?

Easter gifts of bunnies and chicks that end up abandoned when they grow up? Animals, because they are living beings, should not be gifts. People have to know what they are getting into beforehand and none should impose it on others without due diligence...

compared to industrialized meat processing plants bull fights are a humane swan song. Do I find it funny that the peacock matador took a hit, absolutely. But I think there are a lot of other things you should cross off the list before you start going after bullfights.

MHD, what is so sick about bow hunting? Really a much more pure experience and more difficult endeavor than taking out wild game with a Rifle.

I am not deep into hunting culture, but I grew up around some of it. And if I can make a small assumption I am quite sure you would relate to Bow Hunters a lot more than you would relate to Gun Hunters, who tend to be much more commando and ya hoo about it. Now maybe you just don't like hunting which is a fine position, but there is truly a lot more art and respect and connection to nature when it comes to Bow Hunting vs Gun Hunting.

so, if you are a bow hunter, you miss and main your "kill" it limps away, you track it, find it, what next? do you stand over it and shoot another arrow into its heart at point blank range, or do you cradle it in your arms and slice through the carotid artery with your bowie knife, or do you take out your personal safety pistol and put a round in its head?

Briefly:

1. re humanity, inhumanity, etc. there are way bigger fish to fry in that department; that said generally I'm a bit of a sceptic when it comes to animal rights...in my experience the biggest dolphin swimmers tend to be the most inhumane sort when it comes to humans.

2. re bow-hunting / hunting in general: in my opinion the world would be a far better place (for animals no less!) if people had to (at least once!) go out, stalk, catch, kill and gut their own meat for food; hell - just kill a chicken or a goat with bare hands! The attitude of 90% of all the people running around feeding on supermarket turkey breast is nothing less than pathetic.


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But you can go after the smaller one and gloss over the bigger problem? Your personal hunter credibility aside, I don't buy the 'noble hunter' thing for one minute, not as an argument against bullfighting, anyway. I have a very vivid image of thousands of so-called hunters tooling around the countryside every weekend shooting at everything that moves. There are probably more car-crashes involving large game in the states every year than killed corrida bulls.

Dodgy and Illicit hunting practice is rampant all over the world, and certainly in America.

Re laws deterring illegal hunting, check out:

* report citing 16,000 hunting violations, 7000+ prosecuted, in Pennsylvania in 2007
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08013/848850-358.stm
* report on poaching in California
http://cbs5.com/local/wildlife.poach....2.909999.html
* poaching in the UK
http://www.countrylife.co.uk/news/ar...smanaged-.html
* report on illegal waterfowl hunting in southern states with violation rates at 30%+ and up to 50%!
http://www.fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/waterfowl.pdf

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I hunted throughout the first 30 yrs of my life (excluding the very earliest years, of course...), quite a bit. I didn't really find myself attracted to the bow hunt because I have seen those chases of wounded deer...I don't have the patience for it. IF I had to, then I'd need to kill it with the cut to the carotid or the bullet to the brain.
We used guns. The right ones for the job, not stupid semi-automatics or crazy bs like that. It was serious business for us. That's how family filled freezers and kept kith/kin fed. I'm not claiming any "noble Indian" stance either here. Respect for life and for the fact that continuing our lives involves the ending of other lives is something I believe firmly in. That's part of what bugs me about the bull fighting thing. If it is necessary to kill (yes, even plants DIE for you to eat them), then isn't it necessary to care about how it is done? Yeah, I'm in the cohort of those who look for humanely killed animals and I sometimes go months without eating meat. When the mood strikes, I'll get some, though.

Ngeso, thanks for pointing out this thread to me.

Edit: some of the reason I don't hunt much these days is that the woods are infested with gun-happy, semi-automatic toting jackasses who shoot at anything that moves then try to avoid liability for the damage. I don't wanna be "damage." The stories are atrocious - people shot while hanging laundry or walking the dog...Cheney and his ilk won't get to "pepper" my high yalla tail if I can help it!

[ruse]

[Graphic Pic Removed]

Headline on Deadspin: "Bullfight Goes Horribly Right, For Bull"

[BrazenMuse]

Headline on Deadspin: "Bullfight Goes Horribly Right, For Bull"

Great. Thanks. The thread needs a "graphic pictures" warning now. That picture is a topic elsewhere...

http://www.deephousepage.com/forums/...d.php?t=216258

Notice the warning and that the pix are linked for those of us who don't want to have nightmares?
sheesh.

[ruse]

Great. Thanks. The thread needs a "graphic pictures" warning now. That picture is a topic elsewhere...

http://www.deephousepage.com/forums/...d.php?t=216258

Notice the warning and that the pix are linked for those of us who don't want to have nightmares?
sheesh.

My bad!! I didn't see that thread obviously... just seeing this thread brought that pic to mind. But I have now edited my post, and suggest you do the same for your reply- thanks

[the crackhouse]

Great. Thanks. The thread needs a "graphic pictures" warning now. That picture is a topic elsewhere...

http://www.deephousepage.com/forums/...d.php?t=216258

Notice the warning and that the pix are linked for those of us who don't want to have nightmares?
sheesh.

You know, it's a man's life in the arena.
Sometimes you hit the bull, sometimes it's the bull that hits you.

Idance

[kaaos]

you pansies should STFU and leave the long time traditions of other countries alone

[MarkK]

you pansies should STFU and leave the long time traditions of other countries alone

did you eat some dog this weekend?

[panklady]

I couldn't stand to be at a bullfight...me & Veester would be listening to "Neither One of Us Wants To Be the First (To Say Good Bye)" at the snack bar toasting with a nice glass of sangria.

[DodgeDanger]

My brain broke trying to read that. I guess I am just a good ole' country boy after all.

Have a good weekend, its going to be raining here so I will be watching the Tour.

You guys are on Holiday today!?!?!?!? I cant get in touch with any of my colleagues in R'Dam!!!! I swear the Dutch have more Holidays than any other nation in the world.......

DEAR MANAGEMENT, PLEASE APPROVE MY TRANSFER TO HOLLAND!!!

[kaaos]

did you eat some dog this weekend?

yes i ate at chinatown