Ivan Van Sertima(RIP)

[Mike Barnes]

El Mayimbe, Good lookin for taking the time to build on this topic, My man, El Mayimbe, From reading, 'The Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the lmecs', By Gabriel Haslip-Viera, Bernard Ortiz de Montellano, And, Warren Barbour, The writer's of The article, Were very critical towards, Dr.Molefi Assanta, Dr.Cheik Anti Diop, Dr.Chancellor Williams, Dr.John G.Jackson(They stole it, So, You must learn it), Dr.Muluna Karanga,Etc,

Some of the writers, Called, Those gentlemen, Pseudo-archaeologists, Who were trying to rob humanity of the real achievements of past cultures, El Mayimbe, By the way that article was written, I would have to say, That, The writer's of, 'Robbing native American cultures,

Wanted to demean the research of the Historians and Scholars, That i mentioned earlier, My man/LOL, El Mayambe, I grew up in the 60's,70's, The only folks, During my school years, That i learned about anyone of color, Who was note-worthy, Was, Dr.King, Fredrick

Douglas, And, Maybe, Harriet Tubman, El Mayambe, If it was up to the educational systems in New York, Mad cats, Would still feel, That, Columbus, Discovered America/LOL, El Mayambe, The achievements that blacks have made, Has always been hidden for a reason(To Take away any positive spirit in the community in regards to upliftment,Discipline and Hope), So, When i read and do re-search, I look for things, While, Doing re-search,

That i feel is the most consistent,Confirmed,Informative,Enlightening, Information, That i can possibley discover, In regards to anything, El Mayambe, To dis-respect and demean the work and accomplishments of, More than a few, Distingushed, Well-esteemed,

Scholars,Historians,Etc, Is very easy to do, When, Some of the cats, That i mentioned earlier, Are no longer with us to step too in regards to a debate, El Mayambe, I do agree wholeheartly with you in regards to coming correct with confirmed information, When it

deals with anything in life(Not just black History/LOL), Though, There are those Scholars who's agenda focused on, Enhancing the accomplishments and history of Blacks(Example.Dr, Khalid Muhummad, Farrakhan, Eligah Muhummad,Etc), But, There are more than a few very

prominent Scholars,Historians, Who are vastly informed on the history of black folks, From the gate(The start of civilization), El Mayambe, John Henrik Clarke, Was an Icon to me, In regards to information on History, Political and community activism,Etc, John Henrik Clarke,

Was mad crew with Malcolm X too, During the 50's to 1965, El Mayame, I've always been very suspicious of anyone, Who singles out, More than a few of anything in regards to fact, My man/LOL, I also know the agenda of this country, Is too always, Demean the spirit of anything positive, In regards to anything in life, In the black Community So, When i do read articles, Critiquing, Certain cats, I often wonder, Who 's agenda is the writer following, To, bolster up, The So-Called reputation of this country, In regards to Scholars,Historians,Academia, Etc, Of another color, My man(And, I don't mean Black folks/LOL).
Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[alvin]

its simple Alvin, the europeans never encountered Ameridians beforehand. Their only reference for people of color were asians & africans. This was an era of clashing civilizations across the atlantic ocean.

But aren't the classical Ameridian a result of the mixture of these Asians and Africans?

Isn't that the consensus of established anthropology and archaelogy???

Even "Asians" admit that they aren't the original Asian...

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat...03212815/print

For the past 100 years or so, the Saisiyat tribe (賽夏族) has performed the songs and rites of the festival to bring good harvests, ward off bad luck and keep alive the spirit of a race of people who are said to have preceded all others in Taiwan.

In fact, the short, black men the festival celebrates are one of the most ancient types of modern humans on this planet and their kin still survive in Asia today. They are said to be diminutive Africoids and are variously called Pygmies, Negritos and Aeta. They are found in the Philippines, northern Malaysia, Thailand, Sumatra in Indonesia and other places.

So if the original "Asians" were Africoids called Pygmies, Negritos etc. and the original "Americans" migrated from Asia...

coupled with the fact that the stereo-typical "Asian" admits that he came to Asia AFTER the black skinned man...

how was it possible for them(ie. the stereotypical Asian) to migrate to America when they hadn't even established their Asian roots yet...???

And I brought up the Reconquista because it had alot to do with the MOORS, your favorite subject, but we can discuss that on another post so you can get that special attention you crave for on this forum.

'special attention'...???? errr...sure

edit

ps Alvin, Im gonna cite a passage from your Vespucci statement:


"They are a people smooth and clean of body, because of so continually washing themselves as they do…. Amongst those people we did not learn that they had any law, nor can they be called Moors nor Jews, and (they are) worse than pagans: because we did not observe that they offered any sacrifice: nor even had they a house of prayer: their manner of living I judge to be Epicurean: their dwellings are in common: and their houses (are) made in the style of huts, but strongly made, and constructed with very large trees, and covered over with palm-leaves, secure against storms and winds: and in some places (they are) of so great breadth and length, that in one single house we found there were 600 souls:"

and your point is.....?????

Did Vespucci's voyage take him thru the expanse of the continent or just a few isolated islands in the Caribbean...????

Plus, if Vespucci is mentioning(with a hint of surprise in the tone of his writings?) that the native population didn't look like Moors(or Jews)...wouldn't that mean that he was perhaps shocked when he didn't encounter any???

He's mentioning Moors as if he expected to find them...

And to elaborate on the Amerindians being classified as "negros"....this term denoted their slave status...I believe in the past I have referenced the various Papal bulls(Romanus Pontifex, Dum Diversas, Inter Caetera, etc.) that detailed the enslavement of Moors and other "pagan" groups and the confiscation of their land...

http://www.nativeweb.org//pages/lega...-pontifex.html
http://www.nativeweb.org//pages/lega...r-caetera.html

[El Mayimbe]

El Mayimbe, Good lookin for taking the time to build on this topic, My man, El Mayimbe, From reading, 'The Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the lmecs', By Gabriel Haslip-Viera, Bernard Ortiz de Montellano, And, Warren Barbour, The writer's of The article, Were very critical towards, Dr.Molefi Assanta, Dr.Cheik Anti Diop, Dr.Chancellor Williams, Dr.John G.Jackson(They stole it, So, You must learn it), Dr.Muluna Karanga,Etc,

Some of the writers, Called, Those gentlemen, Pseudo-archaeologists, Who were trying to rob humanity of the real achievements of past cultures, El Mayimbe, By the way that article was written, I would have to say, That, The writer's of, 'Robbing native American cultures,

Wanted to demean the research of the Historians and Scholars, That i mentioned earlier, My man/LOL, El Mayambe, I grew up in the 60's,70's, The only folks, During my school years, That i learned about anyone of color, Who was note-worthy, Was, Dr.King, Fredrick

Douglas, And, Maybe, Harriet Tubman, El Mayambe, If it was up to the educational systems in New York, Mad cats, Would still feel, That, Columbus, Discovered America/LOL, El Mayambe, The achievements that blacks have made, Has always been hidden for a reason(To Take away any positive spirit in the community in regards to upliftment,Discipline and Hope), So, When i read and do re-search, I look for things, While, Doing re-search,

That i feel is the most consistent,Confirmed,Informative,Enlightening, Information, That i can possibley discover, In regards to anything, El Mayambe, To dis-respect and demean the work and accomplishments of, More than a few, Distingushed, Well-esteemed,

Scholars,Historians,Etc, Is very easy to do, When, Some of the cats, That i mentioned earlier, Are no longer with us to step too in regards to a debate, El Mayambe, I do agree wholeheartly with you in regards to coming correct with confirmed information, When it

deals with anything in life(Not just black History/LOL), Though, There are those Scholars who's agenda focused on, Enhancing the accomplishments and history of Blacks(Example.Dr, Khalid Muhummad, Farrakhan, Eligah Muhummad,Etc), But, There are more than a few very

prominent Scholars,Historians, Who are vastly informed on the history of black folks, From the gate(The start of civilization), El Mayambe, John Henrik Clarke, Was an Icon to me, In regards to information on History, Political and community activism,Etc, John Henrik Clarke,

Was mad crew with Malcolm X too, During the 50's to 1965, El Mayame, I've always been very suspicious of anyone, Who singles out, More than a few of anything in regards to fact, My man/LOL, I also know the agenda of this country, Is too always, Demean the spirit of anything positive, In regards to anything in life, In the black Community So, When i do read articles, Critiquing, Certain cats, I often wonder, Who 's agenda is the writer following, To, bolster up, The So-Called reputation of this country, In regards to Scholars,Historians,Academia, Etc, Of another color, My man(And, I don't mean Black folks/LOL).
Much Respect
Mike Barnes

Much MB







as I said, the history of the african diaspora IS american history, hopefully there would be more in the American school system that recognizes this factor so we can also have more coherent students of this subject and would be able to stand their ground when questioned

[jimmymack-2000]

Alvin, many ethnicities have referenced the colour black to describe and disparage their darker-hued (and supposedly inferior) neighbors. The Russians, for instance, refer to Chechens as "Blacks". So too do Slovaks call Roma (gypsies) "black". Neither Roma nor Chechens have any more to do with African than Russians or Slovaks.

[bigshawn]

Uh oh :(

[El Mayimbe]

Alvin, many ethnicities have referenced the colour black to describe and disparage their darker-hued (and supposedly inferior) neighbors. The Russians, for instance, refer to Chechens as "Blacks". So too do Slovaks call Roma (gypsies) "black". Neither Roma nor Chechens have any more to do with African than Russians or Slovaks.

dont even bother....ive given up myself and its srsly futile.


its better to not feed the troll and ignore him

[alvin]

Alvin, many ethnicities have referenced the colour black to describe and disparage their darker-hued (and supposedly inferior) neighbors. The Russians, for instance, refer to Chechens as "Blacks". So too do Slovaks call Roma (gypsies) "black". Neither Roma nor Chechens have any more to do with African than Russians or Slovaks.

errrr....


years ago I read a newspaper article(I wish I would have saved it) that detailed a group of blacks of African descent that lived in Russia...no one knew when/how they got there...even though Herodutus wrote that colonies of black skinned, nappy headed Africans set up shop in Eastern Europe...

they are called "gypsies" because this is coded languge that harkens to their place of origin...Egypt

http://www.galileolibrary.com/ebooks...s_page_322.htm

104. There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too. But further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiA9QiAnA8I&feature=fvw

they always want to try and advance the theory that niggaz are the "descendants of slaves" as if to say that they didn't have the gumption to travel to lands on their own....we are always portrayed as passive participants in history...

in the youtube video the anthropologist states that the Arab slave-traders brought the African "slaves" to India yet set them free when they got there...WTF!!!

This shows the extent of the hose-job done...slave traders, whose sole job was to procure slaves and transport them for sale, released the slaves free of charge,,,,can you imagine the look on the faces of people who planned on purchasing the slaves when the slave traders made it to their final port of call with EMPTY SLAVE SHIPS....

[Mike Barnes]

El Mayambe, I would like to share a funny story, With you and everyone else, Who has participated on this thread, In regards to John Henrik Clarke and Malcolm X, Malcolm X, Once Stated to John Henrik Clarke, 'Your an excellent human being, An, Excellent,Social and

Community Activist, An Excellent, Scholar,Historian,Educator, Now, I just have to get you to stop eating pork(The Humor of Malcolm X/LOL), El Mayambe, Have you ever been to the Schomberg Center In Harlem(135thst and 7thave), My man, The Schomberg Center has one of the best libraries for black history in the world, My man, Along with the Schomberg Center, Having a wing, Featuing, Hiphop history too(Footage of live throwdowns,

From the 70's,80's, Featuring, The Furious 5, Treacherous 3,Funky 4, Coldcrush,Fantastic Romantic 5, Hollywood,Kool Herc,Bambatta,Crashcrew, Lovebug-Starski,Eddie Chebba,Etc, El Mayambe, The Schomberg Center, Is a very special place to go to, For those of us, Who love history of any kind my man, Also, A few area's in the Schomberg Center, Were used,

For The Video, 'Self Destruction', In 1989, Infact, The opening scenes, When, KRS, Is rhyming on a podium, In a room, With, cats/young ladies, Sitting down at a conference Table, That scene was shot in one of the conference rooms at the Schomberg Center, The

Cats/young ladies, Seated at the Conference table, Were, Ms.Melodie, D-Nice,Kool Moe Dee, Red Alert,Delight(Stetasonic),Jus-Ice, Lionel Martin(Vid-Kid from Video Music Box), Directed the video for, 'Self Destruction', While, Ralph McDaniels, Produced the video, D-Nice, Produced the plate for 'Self Destruction', In 1989.

Much Respect
Mike Barnes

[alvin]

Select quotes taken from the book: AFRICANS AND NATIVE AMERICANS by Jack D. Forbes (1993)

Now we shall examine data relating to the Americans who arrived in Europe and along the coast of West Africa, beginning with Portugal.

Many American slaves were resold from Portugal to other countries, and the trade continued for at least a century

Many Americans were sold as slaves in Spain, as revealed by the notarial records of Seville and Valencia. It is not possible to be certain as to the numbers involved since not all of the slaves seem to have been properly registered, and also baptismal records are relatively scant.

Many Americans were also sent to the Spanish and Portuguese islands off the African coast. Data is available for part of the Canary Islands during the sixteenth century which shows that Americans were present throughout the period.

From the above evidence it is clear that the enslavement of Americans and their shipment to Europe and Africa was not a short-term experience.

Doubtless Americans were resold to many countries just as African slaves were resold

many of these Americans were shipped to the slave ports of African and Spain/Portugal and RE-SHIPPED BACK to America...under a new name..."negroes"...

In August 1675 a group of Indians, several hundred strong, surrendered to Plymouth authorities with the promise of amnesty, Governor Josiah Winslow, however, refused to accept the agreement, and arranged to sell the prisoners into captivity. They ended up in the slave markets of Cadiz, Spain. Such was the fate of countless Native Americans would found themselves in the custody of the English during the war.

Hundreds disappeared on trading vessels, most of them bound for the Caribbean, where they would live out their lives in forced labor.

-THE FORGOTTEN HISTORY OF AMERICA by Cormac O'Brien (2008)


Now the question you must ask yourself is why was it necessary to ship Americans ALL THE WAY TO SPAIN if the ultimate goal was to ship them back to America albeit a different region????

And to add to this, the vast majority of the European population was POOR AND ILLITERATE and there was no need for raw labor as it was needed in the "new world"...so another question could be asked...

who bought these slaves and for what purpose....????

Didn't Europe already have a population that could have done the jobs and services and labor as efficiently and at a lower cost???

Why did the European "powers that be" feel the need to exploit groups of people outside of their realms and bring them to a region that already had a potential workforce????

[alvin]

Alvin, many ethnicities have referenced the colour black to describe and disparage their darker-hued (and supposedly inferior) neighbors. The Russians, for instance, refer to Chechens as "Blacks". So too do Slovaks call Roma (gypsies) "black". Neither Roma nor Chechens have any more to do with African than Russians or Slovaks.

The American and African slaves in Spain(as in Portugal) merged into the general population. Doubtless many contributed to the growth of the Gitano('Gypsy') group in cities such as Valencia and Seville. A Spanish historian has noted that after the 1490's, the Gitanos grew in numbers:

"This was partly because the genuine thoroughbred Gypsy was being joined by others from the oppressed classes of society - fugitive slaves, Moriscos, even Christians wanted by the law, criminals, adventurers and vagabonds."

-AFRICANS AND NATIVE AMERICANS by Jack D. Forbes (1993)

And such expelled "dukes" - whether Picts of the earlier "Moorish," or of the Egyptian-Scottish, or of the Black-Danish division, - or of a jumble of all three - must have been people like the swarthy "Duke of Andrew" with the Druidess, his wife, - who are recorded as having entered Bologna in the year 1422, and of whom, or whose like, it was said that "the men were black, their hair curled; the women remarkably black, and all their faces scarred."

-ANCIENT AND MODERN BRITONS Vol. II by David MacRitchie (1884)

The displaced Moors of Britian were part of various "gypsy" populations in Europe after they were displaced from their land and throughout history have added other fugitive people to their ranks....nationless fugitives roaming the countryside...

the "gypsies" of Europe are still called "black" because they were extremely dark skinned originally and the name stuck....