Thread: "The History of White People": What it means to be white

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeesKo View Post
    Curliness of the hair.

    The tighter the curl, the more the disdain. It obviously turns out to be functionally the same as delineating based on skin color a large percentage of the time, but particularly in Brasil there are also a good number of people that are more latin than african skin color wise, but with tight curls and they are treated with the same disdain and likewise, you could have someone with more african than latin skin color but with straighter hair and they are not subject to the disdain.

    Oh LAWDY, not HAIR!!

    Good hair/Bad hair...here we go...
    Ummm...Brasil might not be the only place...what about Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico...hmmm...lemme think on that a bit
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    Louie "Lou" Gorbea:
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    Mark Mendoza (280 West): markmendozamixes.blogspot.com
    "I'd rather have the kind of clear conscience that comes from doing what's right than the kind that comes from ignoring what's wrong." Me...8/13/07

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeesKo View Post
    While I can't speak for everyone in Brasil, my experience there would indicate the exact opposite. The folks I met and interacted with were quite aware. Those exerting that discrimination were far more brazen and in your face, those experiencing the effects were quite aware of how & why it was happening.

    Don't you remember all of the concern over violence in Rio when the Olympics come to Rio?
    Interesting.






    Are we talking white, as in the color white or white as in the white supremist white because I'm pasty white thanks to my Irish heritage but didn't grow up any more privledged than you.
    OK so you are are white, gotcha. Question Deesko, how do you know when someone is white?


    Your rhetoric coupled with the way you use & interchange certain terms implies certain things. Just like your comment above, it is written in such a way that you have just accused me of being a white supremist, while also leaving you the out of "that's not the way I meant it, your not reading my words correctly."
    Define rhetoric please.



    Nope, but considering all of my comments in this thread, it's funny you choose to come at me like that. Find that source for your 90/10 claim yet or is it racist for me to ask for a source?
    Im not here to prove to you, a self identified white person that the system of white supremacy racism exists, I talk to whites in order to learn (from the source) how the system of racism/White supremacy operates. I'd like to replace the system of white supremacy/racism with a system of justice. If you want to help please Deesko, tell me the things white people talk about concerning non whites when we are not in your presence. Also can you tell me about some of the ways white practice racism that we non white may not know about?

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Blake View Post
    Be a good German and analyze the logical integrity of this statement, so I can move on:

    "All non-African people are simply a sub-set of East African DNA."

    All Africans are equal, but some Africans are more equal than others?

    ...

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    Im not here to prove to you, a self identified white person that the system of white supremacy racism exists, I talk to whites in order to learn (from the source) how the system of racism/White supremacy operates. I'd like to replace the system of white supremacy/racism with a system of justice. If you want to help please Deesko, tell me the things white people talk about concerning non whites when we are not in your presence. Also can you tell me about some of the ways white practice racism that we non white may not know about?

    GTFOH...You are now way out of line.

    ...

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post

    Im not here to prove to you, a self identified white person that the system of white supremacy racism exists, I talk to whites in order to learn (from the source) how the system of racism/White supremacy operates. I'd like to replace the system of white supremacy/racism with a system of justice. If you want to help please Deesko, tell me the things white people talk about concerning non whites when we are not in your presence. Also can you tell me about some of the ways white practice racism that we non white may not know about?
    Why am I thinking of Eddie Murphy's whole skit about being white on SNL ?

    Deesko...I suppose you can start with McIntosh's list from "The Invisible Knapsack"
    www.myspace.com/templedynasty
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    www.myspace.com/feliciatemple
    www.myspace.com/robdanoizetemple
    http://www.youtube.com/feliciatemple
    Louie "Lou" Gorbea:
    http://www.podomatic.com/profile/lgorbea and http://lougorbea.com/
    Mark Mendoza (280 West): markmendozamixes.blogspot.com
    "I'd rather have the kind of clear conscience that comes from doing what's right than the kind that comes from ignoring what's wrong." Me...8/13/07

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    Interesting.
    Interesting as in you have a different perspective based on your own personal interactions in Brasil? If so, please share.

    I've always found the socioeconomic and race issues in Brasil interesting given the inherent differences in how they (individuals) look at themselves in relation to the country at large vs the seemingly normal American way of looking at how we relate to our country at large.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    OK so you are are white, gotcha. Question Deesko, how do you know when someone is white?
    White supremist white, or pale ass irishman white?


    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    Im not here to prove to you, a self identified white person that the system of white supremacy racism exists
    Are you insinuating that I am I self-identified pale ass irishman white person or a self-identified white supremist white person? The terms seem to ebb & flow here in relation to which one you might mean when you say white person so just trying to verify whether you think you're communicating with a guy that happens to be so pale he reflects the sun, or a guy that is a white supremist.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    I talk to whites in order to learn (from the source) how the system of racism/White supremacy operates. I'd like to replace the system of white supremacy/racism with a system of justice.
    Contrary to your belief system, not all pale ass irishmen are privy to the inner-workings of white supremacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    If you want to help please Deesko, tell me the things white people talk about concerning non whites when we are not in your presence.
    hahahahahahahahahahaha

    Trust me, I've heard some amazingly foul things in my years on this earth. Sometimes people make assumptions about you that make them feel comfortable enough to say things they probably shouldn't say.

    Funny enough, it's pretty much been equal between white people saying foul things about black people, black people saying foul things about white people and black or white people saying foul things about me as being viewed in the middle.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    Also can you tell me about some of the ways white practice racism that we non white may not know about?
    I like the way you lace the insinuation that white=white supremist throughout your comments. I don't think it's an accident. It seems like you believe all people you have defined as white (based on their skin color) are white supremists. I can kinda understand the viewpoint if you subscribe to the validity of certain thought processes required to come to those conclusions.

    Only problem with accepting the validity of that kind of thought process also provides validity to the exact same thought processes racists use in justifying their own racist views.

    BTW, find that source yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrazenMuse View Post
    Deesko...I suppose you can start with McIntosh's list from "The Invisible Knapsack"
    I can not begin to explain to you how much I despise that ridiculously overdramatic peice of writing.

    Not because I don't believe in racism or it's effects, but because it's just so overly dramatic that it comes off as little more than some white person pandering to be down, instead of bringing something worthwhile to the table to talk about racism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeesKo View Post
    I can not begin to explain to you how much I despise that ridiculously overdramatic peice of writing.

    Not because I don't believe in racism or its effects, but because it's just so overly dramatic that it comes off as little more than some white person pandering to be down, instead of bringing something worthwhile to the table to talk about racism.
    Really...? Overly dramatic? Ok...I'll give you that...but her list does resonate... I've taught with in numerous times in a variety of contexts and it always sparks interesting and useful conversations...
    www.myspace.com/templedynasty
    www.myspace.com/brazenmuse
    www.myspace.com/feliciatemple
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    http://www.youtube.com/feliciatemple
    Louie "Lou" Gorbea:
    http://www.podomatic.com/profile/lgorbea and http://lougorbea.com/
    Mark Mendoza (280 West): markmendozamixes.blogspot.com
    "I'd rather have the kind of clear conscience that comes from doing what's right than the kind that comes from ignoring what's wrong." Me...8/13/07

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrazenMuse View Post
    Really...? Overly dramatic? Ok...I'll give you that...but her list does resonate... I've taught with in numerous times in a variety of contexts and it always sparks interesting and useful conversations...
    I just find her list pandering, both when it was originally written and even moreso now.

    If it were written in 1960, it would be an amazing peice but in 1988?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeesKo View Post
    I just find her list pandering, both when it was originally written and even moreso now.

    If it were written in 1960, it would be an amazing peice but in 1988?
    mmm...if i didn't get the responses, I wouldn't use it. But I hear you.
    www.myspace.com/templedynasty
    www.myspace.com/brazenmuse
    www.myspace.com/feliciatemple
    www.myspace.com/robdanoizetemple
    http://www.youtube.com/feliciatemple
    Louie "Lou" Gorbea:
    http://www.podomatic.com/profile/lgorbea and http://lougorbea.com/
    Mark Mendoza (280 West): markmendozamixes.blogspot.com
    "I'd rather have the kind of clear conscience that comes from doing what's right than the kind that comes from ignoring what's wrong." Me...8/13/07

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    Quote Originally Posted by ngeso View Post
    GTFOH...You are now way out of line.

    ...
    Thought that like 3 threads ago.

    Another preacher, another mind closet locked for years.

    Edited: My white supremacist fakery is enough now.

    Idance

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeesKo View Post
    White supremist white, or pale ass irishman white?
    You said you were white, so how do can YOU tell if a person is white?




    Are you insinuating that I am I self-identified pale ass irishman white person or a self-identified white supremist white person? The terms seem to ebb & flow here in relation to which one you might mean when you say white person so just trying to verify whether you think you're communicating with a guy that happens to be so pale he reflects the sun, or a guy that is a white supremist.
    No YOU said YOU were white, no insinuation necessary, now could you please answer the question?




    Contrary to your belief system, not all pale ass irishmen are privy to the inner-workings of white supremacy.
    You previously admitted that you are white. As a white person have you ever been around other whites who practiced racism/white supremacy? If so, as a fellow white did they assume that you shared their view point?


    hahahahahahahahahahaha

    Trust me, I've heard some amazingly foul things in my years on this earth. Sometimes people make assumptions about you that make them feel comfortable enough to say things they probably shouldn't say.
    Foul things like what? Also what do you DO when these things are said about nonwhites?


    Funny enough, it's pretty much been equal between white people saying foul things about black people, black people saying foul things about white people and black or white people saying foul things about me as being viewed in the middle
    .

    Hmmm interesting.


    I like the way you lace the insinuation that white=white supremist throughout your comments. I don't think it's an accident. It seems like you believe all people you have defined as white (based on their skin color) are white supremists.
    Nope that would be incorrect,please reread my earlier posts or better yet quote me so that you aren't pulling false statements out of the woodwork.


    Only problem with accepting the validity of that kind of thought process also provides validity to the exact same thought processes racists use in justifying their own racist views.

    BTW, find that source yet?
    Again if you don't the believe that we unfortunately ,live is a world where nonwhites are dominated by the GLOBAL system of racism /whites upremacy, it would be a waste of my time to try and convince you otherwise. So Deesko how do YOU work to produce justice? Also check page 8 or 9 for my response to your source inquiry.

    I suspect that the best sources to "prove" anything to people in a system of Racism (White Supremacy) are other "white" people. Many "white" people write about and record everything. Deesko, you can find the information that shows who the decision makers are.

    I think that proving that white supremacists control the overall majority of the world's resources takes a tremendous amount of time and energy to do, and it is a task that is viewed as a total waste of that time and energy by some. However, if it were done the results could be constructive.


    How do you eat a elephant? one piece at a time. I gave you a tiny piece....
    Last edited by rhodey; 03-28-2010 at 02:50 PM.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMc View Post
    I also believe most whites are confused about this as well, which means there are a whole lot of people on the same page - no matter their heritage.

    AMc, I believe all people are confused about something. There is no person in the known universe who has total clarity about everything. No person knows all things about all things or even all things about one thing.

    The white people who practice racism (white supremacy) are not confused about how to do it. The non-white people who are victims of racism (white supremacy) have not proven that we are not confused about how the racists (white supremacists) do what they do, the effect it has on us, and what we must do to replace the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) with a SYSTEM of justice. We have not proven this. There are some non-white people who have some ideas about how to do it...and there are some non-white people who have written books and papers talking about how to do it conceptually but we have not proven it. In order to prove it we are going to have to produce a SYSTEM of justice.

    Prisoners in a prison do not know all things about how that prison operates...whether one of the prisoners is sitting in for the warden or not. To say that there are prisoners in a prison who understand all there is to know about that prison...when the prison guards change shift...how much is paid for food in the prison...where that food comes from...how to get out of that prison...so on and so forth...and yet they are still prisoners in the prison? Doesn't make sense.

    All of the prisoners in a prison cooperate with the warden just on the basis of being a prisoner. All non-white people cooperate with the racists (white supremacists). I call this a 'tragic arrangement'. No need for me to talk about another non-white person and how much they are cooperating with the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) because I am cooperating too. The evidence that I am not cooperating with the racists (white supremacists) is that I have run them out of business.
    Last edited by rhodey; 03-28-2010 at 03:05 PM.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by alvin View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    The evidence that I am not cooperating with the racists (white supremacists) is that I have run them out of business.
    Oooh, that sounds juicy. Do tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrazenMuse View Post
    The deployment of race in class politics is exactly what the smoke and mirrors comment is about. I agree, the discussion of race in America has long been made to seem non-existent...it's there, but it doesn't garner much attention... race and gender, each with their own social "value," become devices by which individuals are situated within the web of the economic system. The fact that you got stopped by someone who could see your complexion immediately is a demonstration, in some ways, of the values placed on that visual. Class and race, to varying degrees, do have something to do with that stop. Socioeconomics...that's the nexus of both domains. We can't take them separately and not account for their influence on each other.

    Example from the South - to whose advantage would it be to have the lower class "whites" and "blacks" at each other's throats? To whose advantage, within local economies and the larger economies, is it to have "whites" believing that they might be poor but at least they weren't "black." Never get your own hands dirty...use the lower classes as troops. Call me a local land owner and suppose I'm interested in getting and keeping cheap local labor to work my land. If they are after each other, they won't have time to come for me. I trust that scenario isn't too much to imagine? One of the functions of poverty is to provide cheap labor by making people, whenever possible, unable to be unwilling to work (there are, of course, resistors).
    I dig. I think we're on the same page. I can't remember who made the statement regarding class, but it holds true : The rich have been masters at taxing the middle class while making the middle class blame the lower class.
    One of the problems race created with the labor class though is that labor unions refused to allow workers of color to join because they thought it would belittle the quality of the union. In actuality, allowing workers of color into the union would have dramatically strengthened the union, especially when a strike was imminent. I see it as one of the costs of racism on whites. We often only think of racism in terms of how it affects people of color, but I've learned that it effects whites as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrazenMuse View Post
    Don't know if this is familiar to you or not...but it's a worthwhile read. Also...did you read the review of the argument made in "The History of White People..."?

    Read this, let me know where it takes your thinking...

    WHITE PRIVILEGE: UNPACKING THE INVISIBLE KNAPSACK
    Peggy McIntosh
    Through work to bring materials from Women's Studies into the rest of the curriculum, I have often noticed men's unwillingness to grant that they are overprivileged, even though they may grant that women are disadvantaged. They may say they will work to improve women's status, in the society, the university, or the curriculum, but they can't or won't support the idea of lessening men's. Denials which amount to taboos surround the subject of advantages which men gain from women's disadvantages. These denials protect male privilege from being fully acknowledged, lessened or ended.

    Thinking through unacknowledged male privilege as a phenomenon, I realized that since hierarchies in our society are interlocking, there was most likely a phenomenon of white privilege which was similarly denied and protected. As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something which puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage.

    I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege. So I have begun in an untutored way to ask what it is like to have white privilege. I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets which I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I was 'meant' to remain oblivious. White privilege is like an invisible weightless kapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools and blank checks.

    Describing white privilege makes one newly accountable. As we in Women's Studies work to reveal male privilege and ask men to give up some of their power, so one who writes about having white privilege must ask, "Having described it, what will I do to lessen or end it?"

    After I realized the extent to which men work from a base of unacknowledged privilege, I understood that much of their oppressiveness was unconscious. Then I remembered the frequent charges from women of color that white women whom they encounter are oppressive. I began to understand why we are justly seen as oppressive, even when we don't see ourselves that way. I began to count the ways in which I enjoy unearned skin privilege and have been conditioned into oblivion about its existence.

    My schooling gave me no training in seeing myself as an oppressor, as an unfairly advantaged person, or as a participant in a damaged culture. I was taught to see myself as an individual whose moral state depended on her individual moral will. My schooling followed the pattern my colleague Elizabeth Minnich has pointed out: whites are taught to think of their lives as morally neutral, normative, and average, and also ideal, so that when we work to benefit others, this is seen as work which will allow "them" to be more like "us."

    I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions which I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographical location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as i can see, my African American co-workers, friends and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place, and line of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

    I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
    If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
    I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
    I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
    I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
    When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
    I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
    If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
    I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
    Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
    I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
    I can swear, or dress in secondhand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
    I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
    I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
    I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
    I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
    I can criticize our government and talk about how much i fear its policies and behaviour without being seen as a cultural outsider.
    I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," I will be facing a person of my race.
    If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
    I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
    I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.
    I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
    I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
    I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
    If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
    I can choose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have thme more or less match my skin.
    I repeatedly forgot each of the realizations on this list until I wrote it down. For me white privilege has turned out to be an elusive and fugitive subject. The pressure to avoid it is great, for in facing it I must give up the myth of meritocracy. If these things are true, this is not such a free country; one's life is not what one makes it; many doors open for certain people through no virtues of their own.

    In unpacking this invisible knapsack of white privilege, I have listed conditions of daily experience which I once took for granted. Nor did I think of any of these perquisites as bad for the holder. I now think that we need a more finely differentiated taxonomy of privilege, for some of these varieties are only what one would want for everyone in a just society, and others give license to be ignorant, oblivious, arrogant and destructive.

    I see a pattern running through the matrix of white privilege, a pattern of assumptions which were passed on to me as a white person. There was one main piece of cultural turf; it was my own turf, and I was among those who could control the turf. My skin color was an asset for any move I was educated to want to make. I could think of myself as belonging in major ways, and of making social systems work for me. I could freely disparage, fear, neglect, or be oblivious to anything outside of the dominant cultural forms. Being of the main culture, I could also criticize it fairly freely.

    In proportion as my racial group was being made confident, comfortable, and oblivious, other groups were likely being made inconfident, uncomfortable, and alienated. Whiteness protected me from many kinds of hostility, distress, and violence, which I was being subtly trained to visit in turn upon people of color.

    For this reason, the word "privilege" now seems to me misleading. We usually think of privilege as being a favored state, whether earned or conferred by birth or luck. Yet some of the conditions I have described here work to systematically overempower certain groups. Such privilege simply confers dominance because of one's race or sex.

    I want, then, to distinguish between earned strength and unearned power conferred systematically. Power from unearned privilege can look like strength when it is in fact permission to excape or to dominate. But not all of the privileges on my list are inevitably damaging. Some, like the expectation that neighbors will be decent to you, or that your race will not count against you in court, should be the norm in a just society. Others, like the privilege to ignore less powerful people, distort the humanity of the holders as well as the ignored groups.

    We might at least start by distinguishing between positive advantages which we can work to spread, and negative types of advantages which unless rejected will always reinforce our present hierarchies. For example, the feeling that one belongs within the human circle, as Native Americans say, should not be seen as privilege for a few. Ideally it is an unearned entitlement. At present, since only a few have it, it is an unearned advantage for them. This paper results from a process of coming to see that some of the power which I originally saw as attendant on being a human being in the U.S. consisted in unearned advantage and conferred dominance.

    I have met very few men who are truly distressed about systemic, unearned male advantage and conferred dominance. And so one question for me and others like me is whether we will be like them, or whether we will get truly distressed, even outraged, about unearned race advantage and conferred dominance and if so, what we will do to lessen them. In any case, we need to do more work in identifying how they actually affect our daily lives. Many, perhaps most, of our white students in the U.S. think that racism doesn't affect them because they are not people of color; they do not see "whiteness" as a racial identity. In addition, since race and sex are not the only advantaging systems at work, we need similarly to examine the daily experience of having age advantage, or ethnic advantage, or physical ability, or advantage related to nationality, religion, or sexual orientation.

    Difficulties and dangers surrounding the task of finding parallels are many. Since racism, sexism, and heterosexism are not the same, the advantaging associated with them should not be seen as the same. In addition, it is hard to disentangle aspects of unearned advantage wich rest more on social class, economic class, race, religion, sex and ethnic identity than on other factors. Still, all of the oppressions are interlocking, as the Combahee River Collective Statement of 1977 continues to remind us eloquently.

    One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms which we can see and embedded forms which as a member of the dominant group one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

    Disapproving of the systems won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitudes. [But] a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate, but cannot end, these problems.

    To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these taboo subjects. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try and get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.

    It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power, and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already.

    Though systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and I imagine for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowlege? As we know from watching men, it is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage to weaken hidden systems of advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily-awarded power to try and reconstruct power systems on a broader base.

    Peggy McIntosh is associate director of the Wellesley College Center for Research on Women. This essay is excerpted from Working Paper 189, "White Privilege and Male Privilege: A Personal Account of Coming To See Correspondences through Work in Women's Studies" (1988), by Peggy McIntosh.
    http://www.fjaz.com/mcintosh.html
    We're definitely on the same wavelength! I just read this article and was gonna post it. I like how she brought up the other advantages that further question meritocracy (male, heterosexual, white, even Christian to an extent).
    "I bet you argue with yourself just to make a point." -- bkny11203
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  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeesKo View Post
    I can not begin to explain to you how much I despise that ridiculously overdramatic peice of writing.

    Not because I don't believe in racism or it's effects, but because it's just so overly dramatic that it comes off as little more than some white person pandering to be down, instead of bringing something worthwhile to the table to talk about racism.
    Well in some circles, when asking what do whites bring to the cultural table regarding racism, the answer is the table. At least Mcintosh is making an observation many aren't.
    "I bet you argue with yourself just to make a point." -- bkny11203
    Don't hate the black, don't hate the white. If you get bit, just hate the bite -- Sylvester Stewart aka Sly Stone
    I only debate my equals, all others I teach. -- John Henrik Clarke
    Frustration leads to long-term memory -- anonymous
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  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeesKo View Post
    I just find her list pandering, both when it was originally written and even moreso now.

    If it were written in 1960, it would be an amazing peice but in 1988?
    So you're saying her list would be irrelevant in 1988?
    "I bet you argue with yourself just to make a point." -- bkny11203
    Don't hate the black, don't hate the white. If you get bit, just hate the bite -- Sylvester Stewart aka Sly Stone
    I only debate my equals, all others I teach. -- John Henrik Clarke
    Frustration leads to long-term memory -- anonymous
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  20. #320
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    Here is a definition of "racial steering" I found on the internet:

    Discrimination against minority homeseekers can take many forms. One important form of housing market discrimination is steering, in which minority homebuyers are shown houses, but in systematically different neighborhoods than those shown or recommended to comparable white homebuyers.

    Now take a long hard look at that. Does that sound like racism (white supremacy)?

    This is the reason words are so important. White people who practice white supremacy (racism) know the importance of words and how words form ideas in the minds of people. Now how can you counter "minority homeseeker discrimination"?

    White people who practice white supremacy (racism) use words to focus non-white people on specific parts of the entire process of white supremacy (racism) so as not to give non-white people a clear picture of "what's happening". The term "white privilege" is another. "White Privilege" allows white people to focus on the benefits of the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) and at the same time gives non-white people no additional information about the effects of white supremacy (racism), in terms of the mistreatment non-white people receive. WhatI suspect it does in the minds of white people, because the brain-computer does the calculations, is to alert white people that if they want to continue to receive the benefits of the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) the white people are going to have to practice white supremacy (racism).

    "Racial Steering" is no different. This term alerts white people on how to practice white supremacy (racism) in reference to keeping neighborhoods filled with white people.....and at the same time really doesn't give non-white people any evidence of anything happening to prevent non-white people from buying houses where they want to.

    Now you gotta admit white people are smart. White people will have nonwhites saying "the N word", "white privilege", "racial steering", "driving while black", "walking while black", "affirmative action", "racial prejudice", "integration", "segregation", "apartheid", "gentrification","discrimination",...you name it...and all the while it's racism (white supremacy). This is the reason I only use the one phrase that says it all...

    RACISM (WHITE SUPREMACY)!

    This is the reason the use of words is so important. You can throw all those other terms away. Just three words takes the place of numerous words and/or phrases.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by djmarbll View Post
    So you're saying her list would be irrelevant in 1988?
    I'm saying a good portion of her list comes off condescending and false in 1988, even moreso in 2010.

    The way I see it, a good majority of her list of "white privledge" is little more than her displaying her misquided opinions of non-whites.

    I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

    If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

    I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

    I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

    If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

    I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

    I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

    I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

    I can criticize our government and talk about how much i fear its policies and behaviour without being seen as a cultural outsider.

    I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," I will be facing a person of my race.

    If the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

    I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

    I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

    I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
    I mean, I could see these kinda things being pertinent in 1960, but cmon, in 1988.....

    I understand on the surface level, it seems progressive of her to write a piece acknowledging some of the complaints people have been voicing for decades but how progressive is it to go so far out of your way pandering that you accidentally let your own racist opinions of folks rear it's ugly head?

    If she wanted to talk about white privledge, she should have added that she could write such a blah article 20 years too late and not only find a publisher for it, but have it redistributed for decades and quoted like it came from Ghandi or something.

    Peace
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  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngeso View Post
    All Africans are equal, but some Africans are more equal than others?

    ...
    For black man African in Germany, or is it non-African German, you better your game up, son. Weerdzz. Or your gonna end up in the mail room with the rest of the Africans...i.e. origin, as far as the Germans are concerned.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    I suspect that the best sources to "prove" anything to people in a system of Racism (White Supremacy) are other "white" people. Many "white" people write about and record everything. Deesko, you can find the information that shows who the decision makers are.

    I think that proving that white supremacists control the overall majority of the world's resources takes a tremendous amount of time and energy to do, and it is a task that is viewed as a total waste of that time and energy by some. However, if it were done the results could be constructive.

    What are "white" people? (i.e. as opposed to white people)

    ...

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    Notice how silent our fellow white posters have been lately. You wonder why?

    15 pages, and you're engaging 1 reactionary, 2 mixed-race relativists, and 4 or 5 white members. Where's the broad support, I wonder...

    ...

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhodey View Post
    Here is a definition of "racial steering" I found on the internet:

    Discrimination against minority homeseekers can take many forms. One important form of housing market discrimination is steering, in which minority homebuyers are shown houses, but in systematically different neighborhoods than those shown or recommended to comparable white homebuyers.

    Now take a long hard look at that. Does that sound like racism (white supremacy)?

    This is the reason words are so important. White people who practice white supremacy (racism) know the importance of words and how words form ideas in the minds of people. Now how can you counter "minority homeseeker discrimination"?

    White people who practice white supremacy (racism) use words to focus non-white people on specific parts of the entire process of white supremacy (racism) so as not to give non-white people a clear picture of "what's happening". The term "white privilege" is another. "White Privilege" allows white people to focus on the benefits of the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) and at the same time gives non-white people no additional information about the effects of white supremacy (racism), in terms of the mistreatment non-white people receive. WhatI suspect it does in the minds of white people, because the brain-computer does the calculations, is to alert white people that if they want to continue to receive the benefits of the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) the white people are going to have to practice white supremacy (racism).

    "Racial Steering" is no different. This term alerts white people on how to practice white supremacy (racism) in reference to keeping neighborhoods filled with white people.....and at the same time really doesn't give non-white people any evidence of anything happening to prevent non-white people from buying houses where they want to.

    Now you gotta admit white people are smart. White people will have nonwhites saying "the N word", "white privilege", "racial steering", "driving while black", "walking while black", "affirmative action", "racial prejudice", "integration", "segregation", "apartheid", "gentrification","discrimination",...you name it...and all the while it's racism (white supremacy). This is the reason I only use the one phrase that says it all...

    RACISM (WHITE SUPREMACY)!

    This is the reason the use of words is so important. You can throw all those other terms away. Just three words takes the place of numerous words and/or phrases.
    Ok now, I feel offended very badly.

    While this board is Black-Hispano-Asian-White-Gay-Straight-Dj-partygoer-producer-remixer owned and operated, and since I've been participing for many years to this thing we call "House", I ask for the immediate banning of this racist member named Rhodey.

    In the name of DHP rules, open the trap!

    Idance

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