"The History of White People": What it means to be white

[DeesKo]

Here is a definition of "racial steering" I found on the internet:

Discrimination against minority homeseekers can take many forms. One important form of housing market discrimination is steering, in which minority homebuyers are shown houses, but in systematically different neighborhoods than those shown or recommended to comparable white homebuyers.

Now take a long hard look at that. Does that sound like racism (white supremacy)?

This is the reason words are so important. White people who practice white supremacy (racism) know the importance of words and how words form ideas in the minds of people. Now how can you counter "minority homeseeker discrimination"?

How do you counter minority homeseeker discrimination? Education.

In this day and age, MLS listings are no longer closed off the general public. There are any number of resources for a home buyer that allows them to search their market for ANY home in ANY neighborhood they would like within their own self-imposed price & requirement limits. They can find the houses they want to look at and tell their agent which ones, and go look.

www.realtor.com
www.ziprealty.com

etc.

Beyond that, it is not uncommon for real estate agents to set up queries against their own internal MLS listings based on the standard options (number of bedrooms, sq footage, number of bath's, price etc) that searches the entire MLS database and emails the customer a list of properties that meet those criteria. It's all automatic, there's no special query for "black folks" etc.

If an agent isn't living up to the expectations of the homebuyer and showing them all properties they are interested in/can afford, not only is that a lawsuit waiting to happen but you can terminate your contract with that agent and move to another (probably with a much larger lump sum to put down after that lawsuit is settled).

As far as lending discrimination, in this day and age, the entire loan process is navigable without ever even seeing your lender in person. There is no form to fill out that requires an indicator of race and the equations used to determine loan availability are universal. You are also able to request financing by multiple lenders to find the best deal for your own situation.

If a lender asks you a question regarding race, that is also a potential lawsuit and with little effort you can move on to another lender.

Racial steering in housing was most definitely rampant decades ago, and I would not be surprised to see it still in play in certain areas, but the education of the consumer is the only way to address that and stop it in these holdout areas.

[BrazenMuse]

I'm saying a good portion of her list comes off condescending and false in 1988, even moreso in 2010.

The way I see it, a good majority of her list of "white privledge" is little more than her displaying her misquided opinions of non-whites.



I mean, I could see these kinda things being pertinent in 1960, but cmon, in 1988.....

I understand on the surface level, it seems progressive of her to write a piece acknowledging some of the complaints people have been voicing for decades but how progressive is it to go so far out of your way pandering that you accidentally let your own racist opinions of folks rear it's ugly head?

If she wanted to talk about white privledge, she should have added that she could write such a blah article 20 years too late and not only find a publisher for it, but have it redistributed for decades and quoted like it came from Ghandi or something.

Peace

Sadly, that section of her list is absolutely reflective of my experience and those of many people who are either mixed race or African American if they are middle class. I CAN'T just wander into a salon to get my hair done. I can't be sure that redlining isn't dictating why a realtor is showing me a particular house or an insurer giving me a certain rate. Since I am light, I don't feel as nervous about travelling in the south as my sister does, and she lives in Florida. I would love to believe that, in 2010, these things weren't still true. I can tell you that, especially away from the coasts and away from large urban centers, these things are the case. She does come off as oddly naive, as many white feminists do when they confront feminists "of color," ... but her moment of having her consciousness raised clearly affected her and she spent some time thinking about this...and she named things that are real in my experiences and in the experiences of many middle and upper class Arfrican Americans.

I'll peep the thread you addressed to me and Marbll in a minute...

[alvin]

I feel that the Obama presidency has the U.S. headed on a "crash" course in concerns to its history of racism...

"white" America feels that they are losing control because Obama holds the ultimate symbolic position for "white" America, Chief Executive Office and holds the title of President of this office...a job that traditionally had a "country club" type atmosphere surrounding it...ie. exclusive membership...he is the 44th card carrying member of this exclusive corporate club and you know what they say... "membership has its privileges"

In "white" America's eyes his election was in a way a "hot cue" for them because SYMBOLICALLY it means that with his election they are losing "power"....

I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," I will be facing a person of my race.

Obama is carrying out the functions of a "white" man and some people can't seem to handle the concept...

but what's funny is that it was the so called WHITE SUPREMACIST SYSTEM (ie. racist system) that was ultimately responsible for allowing Obama to get elected...so go figure....

[2121]

Or simply race a social concept (I say religion) created by So called "white" people to facilitate the practice of racism/white Supremacy globally. White people have the power to create and ENFORCE belief in the race system upon the psyche of all non whites. Quite simply the concept of race is RACIST. What does it mean to be white? It means you have the ability and sanction to dominate and mistreat all non whites worldwide. White people know this ,I believe non whites are confused about this. For the most part, I believe whites like to keep it that way.

Do I really have that ability? It's not good enough though..I'd prefer to sanction dominate and mistreat all people regardless of colour cause I sure as hell ain't racist.

[Nay Sayer]

but what's funny is that it was the so called WHITE SUPREMACIST SYSTEM (ie. racist system) that was ultimately responsible for allowing Obama to get elected...so go figure....

Yep.

Obama would not have been elected unless a sizeable portion of White America voted for him. His election is driving those on the Far Right bat-shit crazy.

[alvin]

Yep.

Obama would not have been elected unless a sizeable portion of White America voted for him. His election is driving those on the Far Right bat-shit crazy.

And it goes beyond Joe Earl Smith and middle of the road "white America"...

...who "tapped" Obama and gave him the clearance to proceed with his campaign...was his campaign crafted in the meeting rooms of the "black church" or the inner offices of the NAACP...??? Was it grassroots "black America" who financed and bankrolled his campaign...???

it goes beyond just the "Far Right"...

Question: What and where are two places that the "Far Right" and the "Far Left" meet up after bickering over politics?

Answer: The Country Club and the Bank

[Nay Sayer]

Question: What and where are two places that the "Far Right" and the "Far Left" meet up after bickering over politics?

Answer: The Country Club and the Bank

When I say "Far Right" I'm not speaking of those who hold some type of Political Office or someone born into privilage. As far as I'm concerned, Democrat and Republican are two sides of the same coin. Both equally corrupt and both equally worthless.

I'm talking about the grass-roots Far Right. The Tea Baggers, the Palinites, the Confederate Battle Flag wavers, the Pat Robertson crowd, the Jesus Freaks - the everyday working/middle class Ultra Conservatives. Obama's election is driving these people bat-shit crazy.

[BrazenMuse]

...and, of course, there are states where "white" will no longer be the majority soon...

[alvin]

When I say "Far Right" I'm not speaking of those who hold some type of Political Office or someone born into privilage. As far as I'm concerned, Democrat and Republican are two sides of the same coin. Both equally corrupt and both equally worthless.

I'm talking about the grass-roots Far Right. The Tea Baggers, the Palinites, the Confederate Battle Flag wavers, the Pat Robertson crowd, the Jesus Freaks - the everyday working/middle class Ultra Conservatives. Obama's election is driving these people bat-shit crazy.

But those groups aren't as "Far Right" as you may think...they are just the vocal manifestation of what many "white" people feel, but are afraid to voice in public...(ie. the left or so called liberal factions)...

what's funny to me is the fact that all of these groups(from the left to the right) always complain about "government" being "out of control" but isn't Joe Q. Public actually "the government" with the elected officials being the representatives to the "Joe Q. Public...

So basically Joe Q. Public (from the far left or far right or middle of the road leaning political mindset) is mad at himself...for being stupid and naive as to let some clown he/she doesn't even know make decisions on his/her behalf and now wants to take up arms...when they should be bashing themselves in the head...LOL

its quite complex, but pretty simply in the same breathe...

And IMHO "black" folks were "bat-shit crazy" for voting for someone based primarily on EMOTION...

whats also funny is that people on the DHP claim that "Obama is playing chess...everybody else is playing checkers"...but can you tell me where does EMOTION fit in when deciding who ultimatly wins a game of chess(or checkers for that matter)...



something to ponder...

[alvin]

If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.

White Privilege...

[Armento]

it goes beyond just the "Far Right"...

Question: What and where are two places that the "Far Right" and the "Far Left" meet up after bickering over politics?

Answer: The Country Club and the Bank

this is freakin idiotic! the far left are poor progressives like Kucinich, Sanders, Nader. please think things through before you copy/paste them.

[Nay Sayer]

But those groups aren't as "Far Right" as you may think...they are just the vocal manifestation of what many "white" people feel, but are afraid to voice in public...(ie. the left or so called liberal factions)...

I don't know. Some of the Ultra Conservatives down right scare me. Their ignorance knows no bounds. I can see no appreciable difference bettween the rhetoric coming from the fundies on the Far Right and the Jihadists. American Taliban indeed.

what's funny to me is the fact that all of these groups(from the left to the right) always complain about "government" being "out of control" but isn't Joe Q. Public actually "the government" with the elected officials being the representatives to the "Joe Q. Public...

So basically Joe Q. Public (from the far left or far right or middle of the road leaning political mindset) is mad at himself...for being stupid and naive as to let some clown he/she doesn't even know make decisions on his/her behalf and now wants to take up arms...when they should be bashing themselves in the head...LOL

Joe Q Public doesn't understand that the so-called Democratic process in this country isn't part of the solution - it's part of the problem. Does it really matter if you vote Dem or Repub when the whole of the Govt has been taken over by the corporations?

No.

Hell, according to the SCOTUS, the corporations now have Constitutional Rights.

WTF?!?

And IMHO "black" folks were "bat-shit crazy" for voting for someone based primarily on EMOTION...

Yes. However, Obama was the lesser of two evils...

whats also funny is that people on the DHP claim that "Obama is playing chess...everybody else is playing checkers"...but can you tell me where does EMOTION fit in when deciding who ultimatly wins a game of chess(or checkers for that matter)...

It doesn't.

[alvin]

If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.

White Privilege...

[alvin]

this is freakin idiotic! the far left are poor progressives like Kucinich, Sanders, Nader. please think things through before you copy/paste them.

So none of these individuals own stocks, bonds or engage in investment banking or employ the same financial advisors?

Do they send their children to "poor" or lowly rated primary and secondary schools???

[Nay Sayer]

So none of these individuals own stocks, bonds or engage in investment banking or employ the same financial advisors?

Do they send their children to "poor" or lowly rated primary and secondary schools???

Basically.

Rich people have one goal - how to get even richer. Everything else comes secondary...

[Chris Conrad]

How do you counter minority homeseeker discrimination? Education.

In this day and age, MLS listings are no longer closed off the general public. There are any number of resources for a home buyer that allows them to search their market for ANY home in ANY neighborhood they would like within their own self-imposed price & requirement limits. They can find the houses they want to look at and tell their agent which ones, and go look.

www.realtor.com
www.ziprealty.com

etc.

Beyond that, it is not uncommon for real estate agents to set up queries against their own internal MLS listings based on the standard options (number of bedrooms, sq footage, number of bath's, price etc) that searches the entire MLS database and emails the customer a list of properties that meet those criteria. It's all automatic, there's no special query for "black folks" etc.

If an agent isn't living up to the expectations of the homebuyer and showing them all properties they are interested in/can afford, not only is that a lawsuit waiting to happen but you can terminate your contract with that agent and move to another (probably with a much larger lump sum to put down after that lawsuit is settled).

As far as lending discrimination, in this day and age, the entire loan process is navigable without ever even seeing your lender in person. There is no form to fill out that requires an indicator of race and the equations used to determine loan availability are universal. You are also able to request financing by multiple lenders to find the best deal for your own situation.

If a lender asks you a question regarding race, that is also a potential lawsuit and with little effort you can move on to another lender.

Racial steering in housing was most definitely rampant decades ago, and I would not be surprised to see it still in play in certain areas, but the education of the consumer is the only way to address that and stop it in these holdout areas.

I made some comments about realtors in that other thread you posted weeks ago, so you know some of my experiences with recently selling a property. i agree with what you posted above, but the behavior of the realtors themselves needs to be changed. that whole industry needs to be looked at because it is a f*ckin' joke.

I've had people come to see the home with their realtor while I am home and several have straight up asked me what race or nationality all the surrounding neighbors are! This was mostly from Indian realtors with Indian clients in tow. The area was a growing Indian area and they apparently had problems with certain races living next door and even other Indians if they were of a different caste or region of India. They would ask if I had Indian neighbors and if I knew their last name. I had various Indian neighbors that would not speak to or even look at each other because they came from different regions. Realtors would ask who lived next door. So I would say, the red house? That's my neighbor Barry and his wife and daughter. Then they would ask what are they I would answer, American. Then they would inquire further, I would play stupid, then they would straight up answer if they were black etc. When I would say they can't ask that, they would suddenly get rude and leave. Its sad because its a pretty mixed neighborhood.

Some of the worst 'steering' and behavior was from black realtors themselves. I got quite a few realtors from, for example, the Newark area bringing in black families to look at the house that wanted to get away from that area etc. Many of these couples and families loved the place, saw other black folks and families outside in the area and wanted to live in such an area. When they would seriously start to ask questions of their realtor about buying the place, the steering would start. I would overhear parts of the conversations and they would say things like, oh you really don't want to live around here, I have much more suitable areas for you, or this doesn't seem like an area you might like longterm, or I'm not sure about some of the neighbors etc. I had one black couple who really loved the place, ranting and raving about the backyard ( I had extensive gardens and landscaping I put in myself), the black realtor actually said, oh you don't want that, its too much work, I have better places for you with no plants in the back. WTF!? Its sad because the people who ended up buying the place recently are total schmucks and I would much rather have had it go to a family or couple looking for a change and to start a family and grow and who were going to be friendly with the neighbors. The people buying it are some of the most arrogant, unfriendly, stuck up people I have met.

My entire experience with realtrs the last year or so was a real eye opener. Out of the dozens of realtors I dealt with in both selling the place and getting a new one, only on or two stand out as being professional and actually doing their jobs without any kind of prejudice or agenda. Most of them were crying about the economy, housing market etc but very few actually did their jobs. The realtor our place was listed with does not deserve her commission because she did sh*t other than list the place and is nowhere to be found the last few weeks. We've handled so many things she should have. That industry needs to be looked into because filing complaints does very little it seems.

[alvin]

I don't know. Some of the Ultra Conservatives down right scare me. Their ignorance knows no bounds. I can see no appreciable difference bettween the rhetoric coming from the fundies on the Far Right and the Jihadists. American Taliban indeed.

So don't the Jihadist have a budget? It takes mucho CAPITAL to engage in a protracted international Jihad...doesn't it?

And where are the Jihadists depositing their money...?

Banks.

Joe Q Public doesn't understand that the so-called Democratic process in this country isn't part of the solution - it's part of the problem. Does it really matter if you vote Dem or Repub when the whole of the Govt has been taken over by the corporations?

No.

Hell, according to the SCOTUS, the corporations now have Constitutional Rights.

WTF?!?

The U.S. was planned and has been running as a corporation for ages...

Yes. However, Obama was the lesser of two evils...

this is the same thing a former co worker said when Bush I was running against Clinton back in the '90's...he was confused as to who to vote for because his family were stauch Republicans and he wasn't feeling Bush or Clinton and made the statement that he would vote for "lesser of two evils" in lieu of any real attachment or fondness for either candidate...

and my response...

that's the core problem...EVIL...

the power structure picks who will run and you have a choice of either "this or that"...take it or leave it...and most people are content to fit a...



When ultimately the ideologies aren't really that far off to begin with...

for example:

In Washington...are their schools for the children of politicians on the "Left" and separate ones for the children on the "Right"?

What about Churches...do Washington politicos attend "Left" Churches and "Right" Churches respectively???

What about the banks...are there two separate lines...one for the Dems and one for the Repubs???

Are there separate changing areas at the Country Clubs..."Left" over here..."Right" down the hall...

[bomb cola]

I feel that the Obama presidency has the U.S. headed on a "crash" course in concerns to its history of racism...

"white" America feels that they are losing control because Obama holds the ultimate symbolic position for "white" America, Chief Executive Office and holds the title of President of this office...a job that traditionally had a "country club" type atmosphere surrounding it...ie. exclusive membership...he is the 44th card carrying member of this exclusive corporate club and you know what they say... "membership has its privileges"

In "white" America's eyes his election was in a way a "hot cue" for them because SYMBOLICALLY it means that with his election they are losing "power"....



Obama is carrying out the functions of a "white" man and some people can't seem to handle the concept...

but what's funny is that it was the so called WHITE SUPREMACIST SYSTEM (ie. racist system) that was ultimately responsible for allowing Obama to get elected...so go figure....

This is all funny considering that it took "white" America to elect Obama. Did "white" America think that their votes weren't really going to count when they were cast? Does "white" America want mulligan on the 2008 election?

The answer to both is No.

These sweeping generalizations in this thread of what "white" America is and wants is offensive and insulting.

[rhodey]

How do you counter minority homeseeker discrimination? Education.

In this day and age, MLS listings are no longer closed off the general public. There are any number of resources for a home buyer that allows them to search their market for ANY home in ANY neighborhood they would like within their own self-imposed price & requirement limits. They can find the houses they want to look at and tell their agent which ones, and go look.

www.realtor.com
www.ziprealty.com

etc.

Beyond that, it is not uncommon for real estate agents to set up queries against their own internal MLS listings based on the standard options (number of bedrooms, sq footage, number of bath's, price etc) that searches the entire MLS database and emails the customer a list of properties that meet those criteria. It's all automatic, there's no special query for "black folks" etc.

If an agent isn't living up to the expectations of the homebuyer and showing them all properties they are interested in/can afford, not only is that a lawsuit waiting to happen but you can terminate your contract with that agent and move to another (probably with a much larger lump sum to put down after that lawsuit is settled).

As far as lending discrimination, in this day and age, the entire loan process is navigable without ever even seeing your lender in person. There is no form to fill out that requires an indicator of race and the equations used to determine loan availability are universal. You are also able to request financing by multiple lenders to find the best deal for your own situation.

If a lender asks you a question regarding race, that is also a potential lawsuit and with little effort you can move on to another lender.

Racial steering in housing was most definitely rampant decades ago, and I would not be surprised to see it still in play in certain areas, but the education of the consumer is the only way to address that and stop it in these holdout areas.

Interesting. Deesko what do you think it means when a nonhwite has to enact the legal system solely for the purpose of living where he or chooses? Also you said that you believed racial steering was rampant years ago but is much reduced today? I believe the overwhelming majority of whites and nonwhites still are not living side by side. What do you think the reason is for that?

Do you feel that nonwhites are not educated about how to use the legal system to force whites not to practice racism whitesupremacy with regards to housing.?Do you feel whites are more amendable to living next to nonwhites now? If so what has changed? Do you feel whites can tolerate being that close to nonwhites now?

Also I responded to your earlier post.

[Nay Sayer]

So don't the Jihadist have a budget? It takes mucho CAPITAL to engage in a protracted international Jihad...doesn't it?
And where are the Jihadists depositing their money...?
Banks.

War has always been very profitable for the International Banking Cartels. I believe they like to invent one every 20 years or so...

In Washington...are their schools for the children of politicians on the "Left" and separate ones for the children on the "Right"?

What about Churches...do Washington politicos attend "Left" Churches and "Right" Churches respectively???

What about the banks...are there two separate lines...one for the Dems and one for the Repubs???

Are there separate changing areas at the Country Clubs..."Left" over here..."Right" down the hall...

Exactly. It's all about the money. Rich people, like all the members of Congress, the Judicial Branch, and the Executive Branch don't really give a damn about Joe Q Public. They just want to make their money.

[Nay Sayer]

Interesting. Deesko what do you think it means when a nonhwite has to enact the legal system solely for the purpose of living where he or chooses? Also you said that you believed racial steering was rampant years ago but is much reduced today? I believe the overwhelming majority of whites and nonwhites still are not living side by side. What do you think the reason is for that?

Do you feel that nonwhites are not educated about how to use the legal system to force whites not to practice racism whitesupremacy with regards to housing.?Do you feel whites are more amendable to living next to nonwhites now? If so what has changed? Do you feel whites can tolerate being that close to nonwhites now?

Also I responded to your earlier post.

Everything isn't so Black and White [please forgive the pun].

[Nay Sayer]

This is all funny considering that it took "white" America to elect Obama. Did "white" America think that their votes weren't really going to count when they were cast? Does "white" America want mulligan on the 2008 election?

The answer to both is No.

These sweeping generalizations in this thread of what "white" America is and wants is offensive and insulting.

Didn't you just make "sweeping generalizations" with respect to White America?

Speck, Eye, Log...

[Armento]

i can't make sense of this discussion.

[alvin]

War has always been very profitable for the International Banking Cartels. I believe they like to invent one every 20 years or so...




Exactly. It's all about the money. Rich people, like all the members of Congress, the Judicial Branch, and the Executive Branch don't really give a damn about Joe Q Public. They just want to make their money.

And corporations are created to make money...hence the rub...

[bomb cola]

Didn't you just make "sweeping generalizations" with respect to White America?

Speck, Eye, Log...

No.