"The History of White People": What it means to be white

[rhodey]

I'm not expressing an opinion. I'm wondering what the arguments are for thinking that racist white supremacy is the source of all injustice - or whatever exactly your view is - and why parallel arguments wouldn't succeed for thinking that American imperialism, or sexism etc. is the source of all injustice. (Think of radical Islamists, feminists etc.) You can't all be right. So there must be a way in which your view is superior to theirs. What do you think it is? That it works for you?

I have unfortunately concluded that we we are in a global system of racism white supremacy.

My definition for racsim white supremacy:

A global system of people who classify themselves as white and are dedicated to abusing(and/or) subjugating everyone in the known universe who they classify as not white.

I believe it is the dominant source of of injustice on the planet TODAY. I believe it permeates all 9 Areas of People Activity:

(1)Economics, (2)Education, (3)Entertainment, (4)Labor, (5)Law, (6)Politics, (7)Religion, (8)Sex and (9)War .


Now. Do I feel the same for any other form of injustice? No. Could I be incorrect? Sure. Perhaps you believe sexism is the greatest cause of injustice. Maybe you think the average white women is worse off than the average black man?.... I however have not been compelled that any of these other "arguments" carry more validity than my own.

Maybe you're not fussed about giving reasons for agreeing with you. But then I'm not sure I should be much fussed about working out whether I do.

And that is your choice.

[Monny JcIntosh]

That's all very interesting rhodey, but I'm still at a loss as to what exactly you think all these arguments -- for how you "feel", and what you "believe", as well as for what the radical feminist or radical Islamist feels and believes -- are supposed to be.

[Moksha]

My definition for racsim white supremacy:

A global system of people who classify themselves as white and are dedicated to abusing(and/or) subjugating everyone in the known universe who they classify as not white.

When he says "my", what he actually means is "somebody else's, who I have not credited when I copy an pasted their words"

http://depts.washington.edu/sao/rso_...il.php?id=2656

http://asianamericanmovement.wordpre...ack-and-white/

[rhodey]

That's all very interesting rhodey, but I'm still at a loss as to what exactly you think all these arguments -- for how you "feel", and what you "believe", as well as for what the radical feminist or radical Islamist feels and believes -- are supposed to be.

I feel that those arguments are what other people believe contribute to the most injustice in the world. I disagree with them , I do not feel they bear a greater overall impact than racism white supremacy. I personally don't spend too much time focusing on arguments that I consider secondary to what I believe is the primary cause of injustice in the world. If you have evidence that something else is (some other "ism")is the biggest cause for injustice, I would be happy to hear you out Monny.

[dj-chefron]

Andrew M. Manis is associate professor of history at Macon State College in Georgia and wrote this for an editorial in the Macon Telegraph.

Andrew M. Manis: When Are WE Going to Get Over It?

For much of the last forty years, ever since America "fixed" its race problem in the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, we white people have been impatient with African Americans who continued to blame race for their difficulties. Often we have heard whites ask, "When are African Americans finally going to get over it? Now I want to ask: "When are we White Americans going to get over our ridiculous obsession with skin color?

Recent reports that "Election Spurs Hundreds' of Race Threats, Crimes" should frighten and infuriate every one of us. Having grown up in "Bombingham," Alabama in the 1960s, I remember overhearing an avalanche of comments about what many white classmates and their parents wanted to do to John and Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King. Eventually, as you may recall, in all three cases, someone decided to do more than "talk the talk."

Since our recent presidential election, to our eternal shame we are once again hearing the same reprehensible talk I remember from my boyhood.

We white people have controlled political life in the disunited colonies and United States for some 400 years on this continent. Conservative whites have been in power 28 of the last 40 years. Even during the eight Clinton years, conservatives in Congress blocked most of his agenda and pulled him to the right. Yet never in that period did I read any headlines suggesting that anyone was calling for the assassinations of presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, or either of the Bushes. Criticize them, yes. Call for their impeachment, perhaps. But there were no bounties on their heads. And even when someone did try to kill Ronald Reagan, the perpetrator was non-political mental case who wanted merely to impress Jody Foster.

But elect a liberal who happens to be Black and we're back in the sixties again. At this point in our history, we should be proud that we've proven what conservatives are always saying -- that in America anything is possible, EVEN electing a black man as president. But instead we now hear that school children from Maine to California are talking about wanting to "assassinate Obama."

Fighting the urge to throw up, I can only ask, "How long?" How long before we white people realize we can't make our nation, much less the whole world, look like us? How long until we white people can - once and for all - get over this hell-conceived preoccupation with skin color? How long until we white people get over the demonic conviction that white skin makes us superior? How long before we white people get over our bitter resentments about being demoted to the status of equality with non-whites?

How long before we get over our expectations that we should be at the head of the line merely because of our white skin? How long until we white people end our silence and call out our peers when they share the latest racist jokes in the privacy of our white-only conversations?

I believe in free speech, but how long until we white people start making racist loudmouths as socially uncomfortable as we do flag burners? How long until we white people will stop insisting that blacks exercise personal responsibility, build strong families, educate themselves enough to edit the Harvard Law Review, and work hard enough to become President of the United States, only to threaten to assassinate them when they do?

How long before we starting "living out the true meaning" of our creeds, both civil and religious, that all men and women are created equal and that "red and yellow, black and white" all are precious in God's sight?

Until this past November 4, I didn't believe this country would ever elect an African American to the presidency. I still don't believe I'll live long enough to see us white people get over our racism problem. But here's my three-point plan: First, everyday that Barack Obama lives in the White House that Black Slaves Built, I'm going to pray that God (and the Secret Service) will protect him and his family from us white people.

Second, I'm going to report to the FBI any white person I overhear saying, in seriousness or in jest, anything of a threatening nature about President Obama. Third, I'm going to pray to live long enough to see America surprise the world once again, when white people can "in spirit and in truth" sing of our damnable color prejudice, "We HAVE overcome."

**************************************

It takes a Village to protect our President!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When you learn...teach.
When you get...give.
Maya Angelou
http://wacptv.ning.com/forum/topics/andrew-m-ma...

[rhodey]

Until this past November 4, I didn't believe this country would ever elect an African American to the presidency. I still don't believe I'll live long enough to see us white people get over our racism problem. But here's my three-point plan: First, everyday that Barack Obama lives in the White House that Black Slaves Built, I'm going to pray that God (and the Secret Service) will protect him and his family from us white people.

Second, I'm going to report to the FBI any white person I overhear saying, in seriousness or in jest, anything of a threatening nature about President Obama. Third, I'm going to pray to live long enough to see America surprise the world once again, when white people can "in spirit and in truth" sing of our damnable color prejudice, "We HAVE overcome."

**************************************

It takes a Village to protect our President!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When you learn...teach.
When you get...give.
Maya Angelou
http://wacptv.ning.com/forum/topics/andrew-m-ma...

And fourth if the author is being sincere about eliminating white peoples problems with race, he should be concerned with protecting all the other non whites who are affected by racism white supremacy everyday. He could warn nonwhites about what white racist supremacists say and do concerning practicing racism white supremacy, he could implore them to STOP!

[Armento]

i finally have something to contribute here

[AMc]

First, everyday that Barack Obama lives in the White House that Black Slaves Built...

Was it only Black slaves that built the White House?

[dj-chefron]

Was it only Black slaves that built the White House?

The Slaves Who Built The White House
Listen to the Story
Talk of the Nation
January 14, 2009 The National Archives in Washington, D.C., has documents, payrolls and pay stubs that reveal the stories of the slaves who built the first family's residence. Archivist Reginald Washington has studied the documents, and shares details about the laborers' lives.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=99353053

Who Designed The White House
Did you ever wonder who designed the White House? The architect and design was chosen from a pool of nine applicants. Thomas Jefferson decided to submit one, though he did so anonymously. Ultimately, George Washington, as the first President made the final call on July 16, 1792.
http://www.2020site.org/white-house/...ite-House.html

White House and Capitol built by $5-a-month slaves
By Andrew Marshall in Washington

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...es-707601.html

[AMc]

And fourth if the author is being sincere about eliminating white peoples problems with race, he should be concerned with protecting all the other non whites who are affected by racism white supremacy everyday. He could warn nonwhites about what white racist supremacists say and do concerning practicing racism white supremacy, he could implore them to STOP!

Isn't that what he is doing already?

[AMc]

The Slaves Who Built The White House
Listen to the Story
Talk of the Nation
January 14, 2009 The National Archives in Washington, D.C., has documents, payrolls and pay stubs that reveal the stories of the slaves who built the first family's residence. Archivist Reginald Washington has studied the documents, and shares details about the laborers' lives.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=99353053

Who Designed The White House
Did you ever wonder who designed the White House? The architect and design was chosen from a pool of nine applicants. Thomas Jefferson decided to submit one, though he did so anonymously. Ultimately, George Washington, as the first President made the final call on July 16, 1792.
http://www.2020site.org/white-house/...ite-House.html

White House and Capitol built by $5-a-month slaves
By Andrew Marshall in Washington

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...es-707601.html

Thanks for the links & knowledge.

[rhodey]

Isn't that what he is doing already?

Well here is his 3 poin plan:

First, everyday that Barack Obama lives in the White House that Black Slaves Built, I'm going to pray that God (and the Secret Service) will protect him and his family from us white people.

Ok so he will pray for Obama to be safe for the next 2 years. How does that help white people overcome their issues with race? How does that help to produce justice ?

Second, I'm going to report to the FBI any white person I overhear saying, in seriousness or in jest, anything of a threatening nature about President Obama.

Ok, but what about the other Victims of Racism White Supremacy? He made no mention of protecting the millions of them that suffer from the R.W.S. they are subject to every day. I suspect that would take much more of commitment, much more of a sacrifice.

Third, I'm going to pray to live long enough to see America surprise the world once again, when white people can "in spirit and in truth" sing of our damnable color prejudice, "We HAVE overcome."

And more prayer....

[AMc]

Well here is his 3 poin plan:



Ok so he will pray for Obama to be safe for the next 2 years. How does that help white people overcome their issues with race? How does that help to produce justice ?




Ok, but what about the other Victims of Racism White Supremacy? He made no mention of protecting the millions of them that suffer from the R.W.S. they are subject to every day. I suspect that would take much more of commitment, much more of a sacrifice.




And more prayer....

He is using his words to combat racism for anyone to read and learn from. That is risky depending on what angle you want to look at it from.

I think you're assuming regular White people have more power than they actually do. We are not one cohesive unit. We are not all from the same place. What you're asking for will take all of humanity to solve, not just one particular race.

[rhodey]

He is using his words to combat racism for anyone to read and learn from. That is risky depending on what angle you want to look at it from.

What exactly did you as a white person learn from the article? The best way to combat racism white supremacy is to report death threats and to Pray?

I think you're assuming regular White people have more power than they actually do[

Now AMC , please help me to understand why white people. I'm talking about white people who are sincerely interested in replacing the system of racism white supremacy with justice don't have the power to:

GO out amongst other white people and talk to THEM about not practicing R.W.S.?

Help protect their non white "Friends" by coming clean and telling them how they are being mistreated on the basis of color. Telling them how they can counter this mistreatment?

If the well meaning white people would do just those two things I suspect they could put a HUGE dent in the system of racism white supremacy.

Instead they rather write these "make me feel " good articles that pander to there own sense on philanthropy. You will pray for me!?

Instead a few go and talk to non white people about racism white supremacy and find a way to profit from that.

Nonwhite:"Yes sir we white people do have a problem
with racism , I'm going to Pray it away!"

Unassuming nonwhite: "That's a good white man telling it like it is!"

. We are not one cohesive unit. We are not all from the same place. What you're asking for will take all of humanity to solve, not just one particular race.

Sorry AMC, but nonwhites did not create this mess. Every where you white folks have touched ground, every area of people activity , From economics to Religion, the most powerful and smartest members of your white race (The racist white supremacists) you have spread the infection of Racism WHite Supremacy. The rest of you have had no problem reaping the benefits. We need the owners of the prisons to dismantle the prisons.

[AMc]

What exactly did you as a white person learn from the article? The best way to combat racism white supremacy is to report death threats and to Pray?



Now AMC , please help me to understand why white people. I'm talking about white people who are sincerely interested in replacing the system of racism white supremacy with justice don't have the power to:

GO out amongst other white people and talk to THEM about not practicing R.W.S.?

Help protect their non white "Friends" by coming clean and telling them how they are being mistreated on the basis of color. Telling them how they can counter this mistreatment?

If the well meaning white people would do just those two things I suspect they could put a HUGE dent in the system of racism white supremacy.

Instead they rather write these "make me feel " good articles that pander to there own sense on philanthropy. You will pray for me!?

Instead a few go and talk to non white people about racism white supremacy and find a way to profit from that.

Nonwhite:"Yes sir we white people do have a problem
with racism , I'm going to Pray it away!"

Unassuming nonwhite: "That's a good white man telling it like it is!"



Sorry AMC, but nonwhites did not create this mess. Every where you white folks have touched ground, every area of people activity , From economics to Religion, the most powerful and smartest members of your white race (The racist white supremacists) you have spread the infection of Racism WHite Supremacy. The rest of you have had no problem reaping the benefits. We need the owners of the prisons to dismantle the prisons.

No use working on this with you anymore......

[Moksha]

No use working on this with you anymore......

It took 1300 posts in this thread for you to figure that out?

[djmarbll]

Ok. But the terms you use: "racial prejudice" and "racism" , could you please define these for me as you understand them.

I see racial prejudice and racism as dependent on each other, with racism being the act of practicing racial prejudice.

Perhaps. How do you think this free labor concept fits into today's global society? Do you think that the abolition of chattel slavery has rendered "racial prejudice" defunct? Do you feel that the free labor exploitation of nonwhites could have possibly taken on other (more refined) forms?

The Europeans who brought African slaves to this country had to create an image of Africans that allowed them to do something that was definitely immoral. Yet insane amounts of money could be made, and eventually the establishment of a nation ensued that was heavily dependent on free labor. Asa result, Africans had to be viewed as inferior and propaganda in science and religion was used to convince people who became to eventually be known as white that Africans were inferior based on "scientific" research and scriptural texts. "Liberating" those who were enslaved didn't change this mentality because the propaganda had already become entrenched in the minds of those classified as white and even Africans themselves. I don't know what other forms of exploitation of non-white free labor could have taken.


True the Church endorsed black Africans "as explicitly below whites ..". I call that Racism White Supremacy.





Yes I agree.



So the fact that we do not talk about race means that nonwhites are not struggling with the concept that you call "racial prejudice"? Or perhaps I am confusing your use the term "struggling" with "feel the effects" or "being subject to".

I do agree that nonwhites are not dealing with the issue of racism white supremacy but I absolutely feel we continue to feel it's effects - in ALL 9 areas of people activity.

What I mean is blacks don't have a struggle talking about racial prejudice because we live thru it. Whites don't have a struggle because they either don't talk about racial prejudice and racism at all, or only discuss it when an isolated incident of racial prejudice occurs. But the institutional aspect of racism is rarely discussed. Since I'm not white, my conclusion about whites is only based on my experience with them, and what they've told me in their own experiences regarding racial prejudice and racism.

I notice an interesting phenomena with many nonwhites. We often accept information about racism white supremacy coming from a white person WITHOUT questioning that persons motives. We also tend to idolize that white person, many of who parrot nonwhite counter racists, for saying the same things that nonwhites have been saying for the longest.

We fail to QUESTION their (whites) motives for saying what they say. Now if you believe that some racists white supremacists use deception as a primary tool to practice R.W.S. , the assumption of "good will" is a very dangerous thing indeed.

When you factor in that Tim Wise admitted that he may practice racism W.S. (even if only subconsciously) I question why nonwhites are so quick to trust him.

Actually I suspect I know the answer. Under the System of R.W.S. anything a white person says instantly has more credibility over anything coming from a nonwhites mouth.

This is also why many nonwhites feel more comfortable doing business with white people - From NBA players using white agents, to black folks who go out of their way to find a good "Jewish" doctor. But do these people always have our best interests in mind?

Tim Wise grew up around black people and was able to witness racism being explicitly practiced right in front of him and decided to act against it, unlike others classified as white or Jewish, or even black. The fact that Tim Wise was willing to admit his temporary racial prejudice (specifically regarding a flight where both pilots were African-American and Wise felt scared until he realized the same qualifications used for white pilots applied to black pilots, in addition to the fact that around that time, two white pilots were suspended for flying the plane while drunk) actually makes me more apt to trust him. But I guess I'm weird because I trust people based on them being honest and not skin color, since there is no proven correlation between skin color and honesty.



"I'll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."

-- Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One according Ronald Kessler's Book, "Inside The White House"

http://www.whitehousetapes.net/trans...wh6501-04-6736

[206REFUGEE]

Neely Fuller, Jr. sent me:

"The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept"

...a textbook/workbook for thought, speech and/or action for victims of racism (white supremacy)

I'm going to be "codified"

Its ON!

[rhodey]

I see racial prejudice and racism as dependent on each other, with racism being the act of practicing racial prejudice.

Thank you, but how do you define these two terms , do you believe power come into the equation at all? I mean an ant could hate may guts correct? Is that functional? Is that racism?

"Liberating" those who were enslaved didn't change this mentality because the propaganda had already become entrenched in the minds of those classified as white and even Africans themselves. I don't know what other forms of exploitation of non-white free labor could have taken.

ok



.

What I mean is blacks don't have a struggle talking about racial prejudice because we live thru it. Whites don't have a struggle because they either don't talk about racial prejudice and racism at all, or only discuss it when an isolated incident of racial prejudice occurs. But the institutional aspect of racism is rarely discussed.

Please explain the "institutional aspect of racism as you understand it.

Since I'm not white, my conclusion about whites is only based on my experience with them, and what they've told me in their own experiences regarding racial prejudice and racism.

Do you consider that perhaps some whites would withhold information from you, a non white? If not why not?

Tim Wise grew up around black people and was able to witness racism being explicitly practiced right in front of him and decided to act against it, unlike others classified as white or Jewish, or even black. The fact that Tim Wise was willing to admit his temporary racial prejudice (specifically regarding a flight where both pilots were African-American and Wise felt scared until he realized the same qualifications used for white pilots applied to black pilots, in addition to the fact that around that time, two white pilots were suspended for flying the plane while drunk) actually makes me more apt to trust him

ok

But I guess I'm weird because I trust people based on them being honest and not skin color, since there is no proven correlation between skin color and honesty.

I dont think you're wierd, I agree with you. However when someone says they are white I suspect it is more than about skin color since no one has white skin color. I do feel there is a correlation between people who say they are white and their ability to practice racism white supremacy.

I do not believe a white person fessing up in one instance of "honesty" is a valid indicator as to whether they are always truthful when it comes to R.W.S.

.
Thank you for your response Djmarb.

[rhodey]

Neely Fuller, Jr. sent me:

"The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept"

...a textbook/workbook for thought, speech and/or action for victims of racism (white supremacy)

I'm going to be "codified"

Its ON!

Congrats 206 it's good to have a another soldier in the war against R.W.S!!!

[rhodey]

No use working on this with you anymore......

I suggest you go work on "this" (R.W.S.) with some white people.

[AMc]

I suggest you go work on "it" (R.W.S.) with some white people.

The thing you fail to understand is other White people in this thread along with myself, deal with this (RWS) problem on a daily basis and have to put up with those like you that institute blame without knowing anything about our prior history.

We are not the same as them (RWS). That's what you need to "work" on, and the reason why someone like myself would never work alongside yourself.

"Every where you white folks have touched ground, every area of people activity , From economics to Religion, the most powerful and smartest members of your white race (The racist white supremacists) you have spread the infection of Racism WHite Supremacy. The rest of you have had no problem reaping the benefits."

This shit right here is blatant, and in fact, wrong. Countless reasons why, but I'll shed one note: RWS's are not the smartest members of the White race.

You need an Obama beer....

[AMc]

I suggest you go work on "this" (R.W.S.) with some white people.

Again, insinuating I and others don't.....

[AMc]

It took 1300 posts in this thread for you to figure that out?

No.....lol.

I gave it a shot to perhaps prove that some White folks will attempt to discuss such an issue.

Besides, others are bidding (100 pages) on how long this thread will last, so I'm trying to help em out.

[BrazenMuse]

Explain what being black means.

...

Hmmm...that's another fraught term...isn't it?

True my mistake Brazenmuse my apologies.

Thank you.

Yes!

A few Blacks have gotten to the 'ground floor' and will do anything and everything to stay "on the ground floor" including but not limited to SELLING OUT their own black brothers and sisters. You see them fonting all the time on this board.

What is so Strikingly plain is that so many of our Black brothers and sisters are 'Stuck in the Basement' through no fault of their own.

.

Hold up a minute...so, if I am successful economically, am I selling out? Please clarify this. I call BS on that one.
Note: many are stuck in the basement exactly through fault of their own. And many aren't. But understand that at some point, this is an economic argument again.

I guess it depends on the context. If one of the key terms might be ambiguous, and the argument turns on a particular disambiguation, it's obviously going to be crucial. What "white" (and so "nonwhite") means here is obviously pretty important, given that there's a suspicion that some participants simply equate "white" with "racist white supremacist" -- that is, assume without argument. Otherwise, I suppose it depends on whether participants actually care about understanding one another. Clarity comes in degrees, of course, and sometimes a call for clarity is really part of a more general attempt at obfuscation.

Agreed on that last point about clarity...and on the rest of your response...what bugs me is that I prefer folks be clear about their terms or about the ambiguity of their terms. If a term is necessarily ambiguous, then we have to deal with that aspect of the term. Racial categories are shot through with all sorts of politics and economics, all manner of cultural issues. And there's no getting away from that.

By the way...anyone see the HL Gates piece in NYT today?