Arrangement

[blackwax]

Your thoughts and processes

I know everyone works differently but I will ask anyway
I often come up with ideas on a track and get about 8 bars in
At this point I struggle to arrange the track. All the instruments and parts I need are in place but find it difficult to make it into a complete track with peaks energy etc
How do you approach this?

[SoundScience]

Your thoughts and processes

I know everyone works differently but I will ask anyway
I often come up with ideas on a track and get about 8 bars in
At this point I struggle to arrange the track. All the instruments and parts I need are in place but find it difficult to make it into a complete track with peaks energy etc
How do you approach this?

I have two approaches..

1st one is to work in 16 bar increments..adding and subtracting elements...if there is something going on at 33-49 I may call that A and return to that same arrangement at bar 105..and what happens at 49-65 may come back at 115 or so..

the other is to take tracks by artists I enjoy and drag them into my logic project..My project will become the tempo of that track..and I will add markers where changes take place in that track..I make specific notes like cymbal crash ,synth lead, break down, etc and go from there..

[Ashwell]

Good subject Blackwax.

I like building up all of the parts (at least the core ones) and then just playing the mix throughout the five or six minutes, or whatever it is, on a mixing board, bringing in parts and taking them out as it feels right. Hardware makes this a lot easier and more fun for me but you could get that with midi controllers. Anyway, this gives me a good sense of what needs to happen and when. Then I can go back and make changes or build on things.

I also like to finish a song in one DAW like Cubase and then bounce everything to stems and bring it into Ableton where I can play around with different arrangement ideas and easily add or subtract parts. I'm still not sold on using Ableton for everything but it does seem to be the best tool for getting arrangement ideas, especially when using an apc40.

The other thing I've been playing with is just doing it the old fashioned way by using a keyboard and staff paper to get a sense of the whole thing before I even turn on the computer.

But yeah, I'm interested to hear what other people say. I feel like I'm constantly struggling with this one.

[Marshall Jefferson]

Pretty much I do the same thing Soundscience does except for dropping other artists into my Logic project. It's always been very mathematical with me since the beginning, when I would make 8 and 16 measure sections. You also want to have a section or two where you drop everything except one instrument, or change everything completely for impact. and having multiple drum patterns helps a lot too. Finally, the best ingredient is a shit hot vocalist, he/she can inspire you to do some wild things behind them.

[mocilo74]

Ok, here is what I do lately. After I stopped using most of the time synced features inside my DAW and started working with Hz / kHz values instead I try to go on for a more organic sound.

I map all my important knobs and faders via midi to my controller and start jamming - solo, mute, bypass, filter, resonance, enable, disable, high, low... etc. (and recording the midi data of course). After that I start reviewing and finetuning, cutting and editing that shit. Most of the time it works very well. Jamming around for 15 minutes - 1 hour gives me more ideas and examples about combinations of tracks that I could use in my final arrangement.

And listening to all my favorite records off course and try to indentify "their arrangements" (mostly classic shit like 80s/90s chicago & detroit stuff, garage and disco, old jazz and soul records).


Cheers,
mocilo74

And thx Marshall for all your tips and tricks and the basic and advanced techniques you teach us here in the producers section. I appreciate that.

[blackwax]

Thanks for the reply
The 1st point sounds a little clinical for me
Have used the 2nd point myself a few times

What other tricks do people use for energy drama etc
Such as automation or drum fills etc?

[Ashwell]

This thread reminded me of an old article that might be worth looking at it.

http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/te...ngement-183143

[blackwax]

strange I thought I was the 1st to reply posts seem in a different order now LOL

Thanks to all that have replied so far
Certainly food for thought

[Nightshade]

The other is to take tracks by artists I enjoy and drag them into my logic project..My project will become the tempo of that track..and I will add markers where changes take place in that track..I make specific notes like cymbal crash ,synth lead, break down, etc and go from there..

This seems like a really great idea but every time I start arranging a track, I just go with the flow. I want to use this technique but I find it hard to get a track with the same feel.

I haven't got a grip on arranging, I just do it because it needs to get done, but You guys are sharing some really great tips, much appreciated Looking forward for more. I just hope someone will talk about crescendos and tricks you use for energy.

[blackwax]

This thread reminded me of an old article that might be worth looking at it.

http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/te...ngement-183143

found this link from the one above :-)

http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/te...nt-tips-175793

[Ashwell]

found this link from the one above :-)

http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/te...nt-tips-175793

Lot of good info in there.

[the crackhouse]

Since we're back at this,
I always try to arrange the track by quickly mixing it (in my head or by gear) with a track which could take place before and another one after my track.

It gives me a lot of ideas about introducing sounds (bumping my bass or a specific sound by the 40th bars) and to find a way to end up the trip and keeping it "Dj friendly".

If you listen to Kerri's Bar-A-Thym, you will see what I mean: he left many places where you can run over the rhythm with a new beat, while keeping some jamming elements if the Dj wants to keep it progressive or get more drama during the mix.

This track is not only hot by its progression, it's an arrangment masterpiece:


http://youtu.be/oNXXYWUfZjY
Already playing with his drum pattern @0:08, introducing the track-long cowbell @ 0:16, bassline slowly enters at 0:43, first bassline variations around 1:00, groove getting on @ 1:30, and then the breaks are coming... Brilliant!

Idance

[Nightshade]

Since we're back at this,
I always try to arrange the track by quickly mixing it (in my head or by gear) with a track which could take place before and another one after my track.

It gives me a lot of ideas about introducing sounds (bumping my bass or a specific sound by the 40th bars) and to find a way to end up the trip and keeping it "Dj friendly".

If you listen to Kerri's Bar-A-Thym, you will see what I mean: he left many places where you can run over the rhythm with a new beat, while keeping some jamming elements if the Dj wants to keep it progressive or get more drama during the mix.

This track is not only hot by its progression, it's an arrangment masterpiece:


http://youtu.be/oNXXYWUfZjY
Already playing with his drum pattern @0:08, introducing the track-long cowbell @ 0:16, bassline slowly enters at 0:43, first bassline variations around 1:00, groove getting on @ 1:30, and then the breaks are coming... Brilliant!

Idance

Brilliant indeed!

[Hammer]

This seems like a really great idea but every time I start arranging a track, I just go with the flow. I want to use this technique but I find it hard to get a track with the same feel.

I haven't got a grip on arranging, I just do it because it needs to get done, but You guys are sharing some really great tips, much appreciated Looking forward for more. I just hope someone will talk about crescendos and tricks you use for energy.

Yes, bringing a track into your DAW and looking at its structure is a great way to understand what goes in to finished tracks. Many people even make "song maps" of multiple songs going into done great detail and having these on the wall in their studio for when they get stuck. I have done a couple of tracks but kept the information down a little. It is painful I admit (most rewarding things are) but it is worth it to understand what is going on.

I often hear people too saying things like I wouldn't copy like this, I want to be original. But the aim isn't to copy, it is to see a complete tracks layed out in front of you in a more digestible format, it shows you how and why certain things work and once you have a couple done you will start noticing simular things between most songs which when you are arranging your own track you will have the education to layout your track with much less effort and of course as you get better you can add your own signature along the way.

Personally I start out with a 4 or 8 bar loop and once I feel I have something that will work I will either do another 8 bar lops that will compliment the first or just layout a very basic arrangement which I will go back over a few times to add more excitement, drum/synth variations, etc or maybe add something else till I'm happy. I lately find it is important to try and stop working vertically and get going horizontally as quick as you can to stop getting bored of your track.

[blackwax]

Cubase has a nice feature called arranger track