Sell the Feeling, Not the Sex

[BrazenMuse]

So is what the dancers are doin' in this documentary the feeling or the sex? Serious question and a bit of shameless plugging...



I don't know that I get that demonizing the sex is a good idea (which has already been said in the thread). The two are intertwined...the body is the body and sex is yet another dance...

[cbreeze]

I don't know that I get that demonizing the sex is a good idea (which has already been said in the thread). The two are intertwined...the body is the body and sex is yet another dance...

i've been lurkin on this conversation i'm gonna step in and then back out...slowly... PLEASE don't yell!!

1. Sex is everywhere.... and anytime bodies are moving, they can emulate sex in the eye of a beholder....just depends on the beholder....
2. Dance is an artistic expression and emotional control of the body... much like sex
3. Really should be no need to promote sex, there's enough of that on tv all day....we're all adults....let's just have fun

i think what happens is that some spectators see sex....and others see movement...and others see nothing....
RESPECT is what is needed! sex is beautiful when respectful.... it will happen when it happens....

lastly; but sometimes adults don't act like adults....case in point:
my last visit to dox a 'gentleman' latched onto me....btw, I'M NOT A YOUNG CHICKY and i was dressed to sweat not sex .... i had staked out my space, bp'd a little and was warmin up my ole azz and grovin... but at EVERY turn, there he was crowdin me and talkin smack ...phew!! after a few REAL DANCER hints didn't go over, i had to roll out, find another spot and all night kept seeing him out of the corner of my eye, ARGH!!

ok, now i'm slowly backing out...

just a little respect and things happen if they are due...
hugs y'all

[DaBownca]

sex is beautiful when respectful....

Well I have had some facetotheheadboardtakeitbitchgonnachockeyououtcall meMassaKizzeehairpulling sessions.....they were beautiful


some still call before you ask

[cbreeze]

Well I have had some facetotheheadboardtakeitbitchgonnachockeyououtcall meMassaKizzeehairpulling sessions.....they were beautiful


some still call before you ask

been there done that too! it was mutual! mutually respectfully tearin up da place!

[DaBownca]

been there done that too! it was mutual! mutually respectfully tearin up da place!

sweeet....

[BrazenMuse]

i've been lurkin on this conversation i'm gonna step in and then back out...slowly... PLEASE don't yell!!

1. Sex is everywhere.... and anytime bodies are moving, they can emulate sex in the eye of a beholder....just depends on the beholder....
2. Dance is an artistic expression and emotional control of the body... much like sex
3. Really should be no need to promote sex, there's enough of that on tv all day....we're all adults....let's just have fun

i think what happens is that some spectators see sex....and others see movement...and others see nothing....
RESPECT is what is needed! sex is beautiful when respectful.... it will happen when it happens....

lastly; but sometimes adults don't act like adults....case in point:
my last visit to dox a 'gentleman' latched onto me....btw, I'M NOT A YOUNG CHICKY and i was dressed to sweat not sex .... i had staked out my space, bp'd a little and was warmin up my ole azz and grovin... but at EVERY turn, there he was crowdin me and talkin smack ...phew!! after a few REAL DANCER hints didn't go over, i had to roll out, find another spot and all night kept seeing him out of the corner of my eye, ARGH!!

ok, now i'm slowly backing out...

just a little respect and things happen if they are due...
hugs y'all

Agreed...and

DON'T YOU HATE THAT??! I'm dancing, you see me dancing. Maybe you like the dancing, so you come over and INTERRUPT IT? We already know you are "tone deaf" because it never dawns on you that crowding me isn't gonna make you popular with me? GAK! And it's always some no-dancin' fewl beggin for the digits or tryna grind...grrrrr! Nice example of... "some spectators see sex....and others see movement...and others see nothing...."

[DaBownca]

Agreed...and

DON'T YOU HATE THAT??! I'm dancing, you see me dancing. Maybe you like the dancing, so you come over and INTERRUPT IT? We already know you are "tone deaf" because it never dawns on you that crowding me isn't gonna make you popular with me? GAK! And it's always some no-dancin' fewl beggin for the digits or tryna grind...grrrrr! Nice example of... "some spectators see sex....and others see movement...and others see nothing...."

The action on both parts has helped in the decline of social dancing in all honesty. This is largely why many guys won't even approach a female on the dance floor. Hell I've even seen the reverse been a victim of it too but tried not to make myself seem unapproachable. You should see some of the shade I been cut for saying HELLO during "that feeling" And drunk no rhythm trytagrind dude may be the root of the problem as, and rightfully so, many women dance by themselves until THEY spot someone they want to share dance floor space with because he(dnrttg dude) came across their path too many times.

[LOKEE]

Danny, two brief points of contention:

Progress achieved through nostalgia:

Innovation and progression are necessarily about the transformation of space--be it material or theoretical space. As such, the innovator confronts the temporal, geographical and social needs of any moment and envisions a way to move through the world. Nightlife is no different. Any success requires you to imagine something new, to build out from and expand on the past. As such, the desire to return to a former perfection precludes progress, and, quite often, results in the stale, rigid and irrelevant spaces to which you seem to be objecting.


Sex as corrupt:

First things first, there seems to be some real room for critique here, but I am unsure if your target--sex--is the right place to aim. What you really seem to be talking about is how the economic realities of the nightclub world are currently met through the commodification of desire. Desire, thus, maps onto, becomes slave to, the demands of capital. I am sympathetic to this reading, if, in fact, it is what you mean; however, even this re-aiming is not critical enough of its own position.

This is particularly true when considered in light of your argument that one must "sell the feeling, not the sex." No matter which approach we take--feeling or sex--desire is turned into a commodity, which has the potential to alienate the individual from experience and discovery. The question you pose, then, is not whether the commodity should be confronted, but, rather, what is best reified and sold.

In some ways, your question is helpful, as it presents two inextricable yet contradictory issues. On the one hand, there is the necessity for capital. The nightclub is a business, and one must always meet its economic demands. And, at the same time, any entry into an economy compromises one's ability to "feel" (though, I am dubious as to whether a full expulsion of "feeling" occurs). In other words, desire's reified nature dictates what we want, and experience/discovery is lost. We are, quite literally, unable to discover what we desire because of how overdetermined the commodity has become. How do we reconcile these two things?

That seems to be the catch, doesn't it? I would suggest that the answer should not attempt to discard any manifestation of desire, as you do with sex; rather, one must be both critical of how desire forms and remain open to unfamiliar possibilities, be it sex, feeling, drug or none of the above. In other words, the system is the system, and it is, at least in this moment, a necessary delivery system; but it need not preclude us from experience if we constantly and critically consider how what we want is always shaped by the material and social world around us.

In this spirit, my particular method of interrogation always starts with "tell me why." If i can't answer that, I become suspect. The question doesn't alleviate the problem in total, but, then again, the very nature of the our communities and enclaves seems to evidence that desire is always and necessarily socially conceived. Consequently, I am never going to arrive at a purely formed desire/feeling--not in sex and not in dance--and that fact should not and does not dilute the joys both can bring.

[ngeso]

[dannydance]

Danny, two brief points of contention:

Progress achieved through nostalgia:

Innovation and progression are necessarily about the transformation of space--be it material or theoretical space. As such, the innovator confronts the temporal, geographical and social needs of any moment and envisions a way to move through the world. Nightlife is no different. Any success requires you to imagine something new, to build out from and expand on the past. As such, the desire to return to a former perfection precludes progress, and, quite often, results in the stale, rigid and irrelevant spaces to which you seem to be objecting.


Sex as corrupt:

First things first, there seems to be some real room for critique here, but I am unsure if your target--sex--is the right place to aim. What you really seem to be talking about is how the economic realities of the nightclub world are currently met through the commodification of desire. Desire, thus, maps onto, becomes slave to, the demands of capital. I am sympathetic to this reading, if, in fact, it is what you mean; however, even this re-aiming is not critical enough of its own position.

This is particularly true when considered in light of your argument that one must "sell the feeling, not the sex." No matter which approach we take--feeling or sex--desire is turned into a commodity, which has the potential to alienate the individual from experience and discovery. The question you pose, then, is not whether the commodity should be confronted, but, rather, what is best reified and sold.

In some ways, your question is helpful, as it presents two inextricable yet contradictory issues. On the one hand, there is the necessity for capital. The nightclub is a business, and one must always meet its economic demands. And, at the same time, any entry into an economy compromises one's ability to "feel" (though, I am dubious as to whether a full expulsion of "feeling" occurs). In other words, desire's reified nature dictates what we want, and experience/discovery is lost. We are, quite literally, unable to discover what we desire because of how overdetermined the commodity has become. How do we reconcile these two things?

That seems to be the catch, doesn't it? I would suggest that the answer should not attempt to discard any manifestation of desire, as you do with sex; rather, one must be both critical of how desire forms and remain open to unfamiliar possibilities, be it sex, feeling, drug or none of the above. In other words, the system is the system, and it is, at least in this moment, a necessary delivery system; but it need not preclude us from experience if we constantly and critically consider how what we want is always shaped by the material and social world around us.

In this spirit, my particular method of interrogation always starts with "tell me why." If i can't answer that, I become suspect. The question doesn't alleviate the problem in total, but, then again, the very nature of the our communities and enclaves seems to evidence that desire is always and necessarily socially conceived. Consequently, I am never going to arrive at a purely formed desire/feeling--not in sex and not in dance--and that fact should not and does not dilute the joys both can bring.

Lokee, let me give your points a day or so of thought and get back to you. Thanks.

['Magic' Juan]

[Armento]

i've been lurkin on this conversation i'm gonna step in and then back out...slowly... PLEASE don't yell!!

1. Sex is everywhere.... and anytime bodies are moving, they can emulate sex in the eye of a beholder....just depends on the beholder....
2. Dance is an artistic expression and emotional control of the body... much like sex

ASL?

[DaBownca]

I guess I need to see a crowd do it because it just sounds like getting open from that description

[Armento]

Lokee, let me give your points a day or so of thought and get back to you. Thanks.

[Jamie 3:26]

I guess I need to see a crowd do it because it just sounds like getting open from that description

[DaBownca]

Not hating but I was thinking it would be something more distinct.... they was just gettin open from my POV. Way to work em over Jamie though! Was that an edit of I like the girls? Oh and tell the lightman I said thanx for the epilepsy I was running out.

[cbreeze]

Agreed...and

DON'T YOU HATE THAT??! I'm dancing, you see me dancing. Maybe you like the dancing, so you come over and INTERRUPT IT? We already know you are "tone deaf" because it never dawns on you that crowding me isn't gonna make you popular with me? GAK! And it's always some no-dancin' fewl beggin for the digits or tryna grind...grrrrr! Nice example of... "some spectators see sex....and others see movement...and others see nothing...."

yep!! that "i'm in da club to pick-up" mentality.... those types are really only in house clubs because it's a 'club' ....
i seem to remember a sign at the entrance of the old SHELTER... with rules of do's and don'ts.....
hmmmmm but i wonder if those types would even read it?

[cbreeze]

ASL?

YEP! as in the following
eye cuts
hand to face
moving away
rolling eyes
"DUDE! PLEASE" (both arms extended, hands palms outward)

aCK!!!!

[Armento]

yep!! that "i'm in da club to pick-up" mentality.... those types are really only in house clubs because it's a 'club' ....
i seem to remember a sign at the entrance of the old SHELTER... with rules of do's and don'ts.....
hmmmmm but i wonder if those types would even read it?

[DaBownca]

yep!! that "i'm in da club to pick-up" mentality.... those types are really only in house clubs because it's a 'club' ....
i seem to remember a sign at the entrance of the old SHELTER... with rules of do's and don'ts.....
hmmmmm but i wonder if those types would even read it?

People still mack at house clubs/parties...... men and women and there are still some receptive people again of both sexes

[cbreeze]

i really don't mind 'flailers' .... they just feeling something different!! ....sometimes i gently remind the to respect the floor space...

[cbreeze]

People still mack at house clubs/parties...... men and women and there are still some receptive people again of both sexes

hmmmm, i don't think mackin is a problem... and i certainly appreciate compliments and attention when its extended....and i have admired many a fine man on the floor.....however, it's the 'insistence' when someone is obviously unreceptive that can be annoying and obnoxious.... i guess some folks just don't get it...

[DaBownca]

hmmmm, i don't think mackin is a problem... and i certainly appreciate compliments and attention when its extended....and i have admired many a fine man on the floor.....however, it's the 'insistence' when someone is obviously unreceptive that can be annoying and obnoxious.... i guess some folks just don't get it...

i feel you on that

[BrazenMuse]

hmmmm, i don't think mackin is a problem... and i certainly appreciate compliments and attention when its extended....and i have admired many a fine man on the floor.....however, it's the 'insistence' when someone is obviously unreceptive that can be annoying and obnoxious.... i guess some folks just don't get it...

There's flirting...and dance is a WONDERFUL way to do that. And, honestly, flirty dancing can happen even when there's no intent to follow through...and that's cool bc there's still respect for personal space and for personal desire. When there is intent to follow thru..well that's just foreplay, and that's lovely!!

Then there's... well...what do you call it...desperate dog trying to hump me...I can't stand it! The first turn off is that the damned critter won't understand that interrupting someone's dancing is RUDE! If I already know you are a disrespectful git, guess what?

LOL at ASL...

[BrazenMuse]

hmmmm, i don't think mackin is a problem... and i certainly appreciate compliments and attention when its extended....and i have admired many a fine man on the floor.....however, it's the 'insistence' when someone is obviously unreceptive that can be annoying and obnoxious.... i guess some folks just don't get it...

agreed.