Peven

[Chuck P]

ohh the emotion that PE brings to the P, love it.....

['Magic' Juan]

I have not seen any DJ sell a mix CD in the UK EVER this is a very American thing

"Was" is more like it. The DJ selling his CD's at the mall kiosk is a thing of the past as it is no longer profitable. Online is the way to go.

[Dj Bones]

Ya'll quick to tally up how much it will cost.



Income - COGS - Expenses = Profit

$45k @ $10 per CD = 4500 CD's

4500 CD's @ .50 each to produce/package = $2250.00 COGS


$45,000 minus $2250 minus $22,500 = $20,250 profit

The marketing I'd need to do to sell that many CD's, I'd have to give up my day job and then wouldn't be able to afford the $22k

[blackwax]

"Was" is more like it. The DJ selling his CD's at the mall kiosk is a thing of the past as it is no longer profitable. Online is the way to go.

:-)

[DeesKo]

Sound like this idea was not fully thought through, and was conceived during some 4am meetings over contraband.

Peven: Let's see...how does $150 a track sound?
Trusted sidekick: I don't know, sound kinda high
Peven: $150 it is
Trusted sidekick:oh Peven, you are a genius

To clarify my stance:

The failure of an individual artist to price their product accordingly, or have the fan base necessary to justify their prices does not mean the idea is invalid.

IMO, the mix download/CD game is one where professional DJ's could not only make money but could actually, really, truly expand an artists (and their own) fan base via real retail outlets.

Imagine this:

You license the tracks for your mix via the clearinghouse
This means you can sell physical product via stores/amazon/your website
This means your mix could be sold on Itunes
You could sell your own edits

Imagine the profit potential for all your FIYAHHHH mixes/edits. Imagine the revenue generation for independant labels.

[DeesKo]

I have not seen any DJ sell a mix CD in the UK EVER this is a very American thing

Defected In The House, Hed-Kandi etc do not exist in the UK?

I find that hard to believe.

[blackwax]

To clarify my stance:

The failure of an individual artist to price their product accordingly, or have the fan base necessary to justify their prices does not mean the idea is invalid.

IMO, the mix download/CD game is one where professional DJ's could not only make money but could actually, really, truly expand an artists (and their own) fan base via real retail outlets.

Imagine this:

You license the tracks for your mix via the clearinghouse
This means you can sell physical product via stores/amazon/your website
This means your mix could be sold on Itunes
You could sell your own edits

Imagine the profit potential for all your FIYAHHHH mixes/edits. Imagine the revenue generation for independant labels.

how many people in reality buy mix CD's these days? especially from those "middle" DJ's? Serious question I would like to see some actual figures on sales

[Dj Bones]

Defected In The House, Hed-Kandi etc do not exist in the UK?

I find that hard to believe.

They're established labels not individuals.......

[House]

First Mistake - he's lumping CD compilation licensing with promo licensing. If cats were still making a mint off selling mix CDs, I might understand this a little better, but they are about a decade late in that department.

As someone who has extensive music licensing experience, I can tell you that the only real licensing revenues come from sync licenses and legit compilations. You gonna sue indie DJs for unlicensed usage on their promo mixes? You'll pay more in legal fees than any damages you'll recoup.

I'm not knocking the concept of being properly compensated for your work ... I mean youlicense.com is an example of how you can do this PROPERLY. There are plenty of legitimate ways to increase your licensing revenues without shooting yourself in the foot. Trying to squeeze extra money from the DJs that support PE's records (who are his biggest salesforce as well as his main customer base) is not a good look at all. Why he would want to alienate them is beyond me, but as with so many of the recent PE dramas that have unfolded online, I can't see how this could possibly work out to his advantage, and I doubt he cares one way or the other what any of us think because he's the next Prince (who, I might add, has done similarly stupid shit in the past, but eventually realized that his audience was his best source of revenue, NOT his music).

A $150 licensing fee for inclusion on a commercial compilation release is pretty reasonable. My issue is with trying to get paid for something that does not directly generate revenue. Basically it's a scheme to squeeze more coin from independent DJs, who have already paid for the music in the first place. Add to that the sites like Soundcloud and PodOMatic that already charge an RIAA-agreed rate for blanket usage and you've just started a whole lot of conversation but accomplished absolutely nothing positive in the process.

Jon

If he actually had many fans, he wouldn't have to come of with a scheme like this. This proposal is quite telling. Unfortunately, he is prolly surrounded by sycophants and glad-handlers. This idea is only 1 step above Sabines plea for money to finance that trip to Paris

Here's a neat ide for Peven: make music that lots of people want to buy and don't tell your fan base to screw themselves

[blackwax]

They're established labels not individuals.......

bingo!

[JMNYC]

here's a neat ide for peven: Make music that lots of people want to buy and don't tell your fan base to screw themselves

this!

[DeesKo]

The marketing I'd need to do to sell that many CD's, I'd have to give up my day job and then wouldn't be able to afford the $22k

No wonder this industry isn't going anywhere.

['Magic' Juan]

Here's a neat ide for Peven: make music that lots of people want to buy and don't tell your fan base to screw themselves

[Martin Red]

Paying $150 for the right to put a tune on a mix? Serioulsy...?

Yes, and that kid back in 1975 that told you the police were going to seize all those tapes you recorded off the radio was right

[blackwax]

No wonder this industry isn't going anywhere.

hang on who said it wasn't going anywhere? dance music is bigger than its ever been! As I said in a previous post people at the top middle and bottom.......

Not everyone should start a label and that is the correct way of licensing music for compilations

[blackwax]

Jon

If he actually had many fans, he wouldn't have to come of with a scheme like this. This proposal is quite telling. Unfortunately, he is prolly surrounded by sycophants and glad-handlers. This idea is only 1 step above Sabines plea for money to finance that trip to Paris

Here's a neat ide for Peven: make music that lots of people want to buy and don't tell your fan base to screw themselves

you changed your mind then?

[Dj Bones]

No wonder this industry isn't going anywhere.

$150 a track is gonna make it better?

[JMNYC]

Most labels barely recoup on compilation licenses. There's a reason one of the biggest licensors of house music is named BBE (Barely Breaking Even). Many are going the "no advance" route, to avoid the risk of not recouping.

Normally I'd charge for this advice, but I'll give this one up for free - Beatport or Traxsource should create a separate class of downloads that include a statutory license for promotional use similarly to the way producer packs are offered now. Double the price for the high-quality download and offer a one-time promotional use only license with the download. You give DJs a legitimate way to support the music that they use to promote themselves that's affordable and trackable.

Solutions like this are only a thread or phone call away if artists would take off their blinders, stop listening to the sycophants and see what has actually worked already. Producer packs sell well and generate relatively substantial revenue streams - IF THE ORIGINAL TRACK IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ANYONE TO GIVE A RATS ASS.

This is the digital music era people - profit in pennies is better than no profit at all.

[DeesKo]

how many people in reality buy mix CD's these days? especially from those "middle" DJ's? Serious question I would like to see some actual figures on sales

I don't know if numbers exist for sales of middle-tier DJ mixes because the clearinghouse doesn't exist, which means the only people able to license are bigger labels, who are only going to invest their money in bigger DJ names. I do know the Hed-Kandi, Defected etc numbers are solid enough to make it worth their while to keep doing them. I am sure they are not losing money.

What I do know is that there are a shit load of DJ's giving away mixes to a potential customer base who would presumably pay a reasonable amount of money for those mixes, provided the DJ's could actually license the music at a reasonable rate and sell their product. I also know that customer base consists primarily of people the DJ has connected with personally in some way. I also know that there are literally millions & millions of people that DJ doesn't know, who are actively out there searching for new music with their credit card stored in their profile.

Peace

[Chuck P]

PE needs to come back out under another name, and he can't do any live performances.........

[blackwax]

I don't know if numbers exist for sales of middle-tier DJ mixes because the clearinghouse doesn't exist, which means the only people able to license are bigger labels, who are only going to invest their money in bigger DJ names. I do know the Hed-Kandi, Defected etc numbers are solid enough to make it worth their while to keep doing them. I am sure they are not losing money.

What I do know is that there are a shit load of DJ's giving away mixes to a potential customer base who would presumably pay a reasonable amount of money for those mixes, provided the DJ's could actually license the music at a reasonable rate and sell their product. I also know that customer base consists primarily of people the DJ has connected with personally in some way. I also know that there are literally millions & millions of people that DJ doesn't know, who are actively out there searching for new music with their credit card stored in their profile.

Peace

from what I gather the majority of non DJ's and even some DJ's don't want to pay for music end of let alone a mix CD, if they are nmot going to but a track at $0.99 why will they but a mix at $10 or less/more?

[blackwax]

Most labels barely recoup on compilation licenses. There's a reason one of the biggest licensors of house music is named BBE (Barely Breaking Even). Many are going the "no advance" route, to avoid the risk of not recouping.

Normally I'd charge for this advice, but I'll give this one up for free - Beatport or Traxsource should create a separate class of downloads that include a statutory license for promotional use similarly to the way producer packs are offered now. Double the price for the high-quality download and offer a one-time promotional use only license with the download. You give DJs a legitimate way to support the music that they use to promote themselves that's affordable and trackable.

Solutions like this are only a thread or phone call away if artists would take off their blinders, stop listening to the sycophants and see what has actually worked already. Producer packs sell well and generate relatively substantial revenue streams - IF THE ORIGINAL TRACK IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ANYONE TO GIVE A RATS ASS.

This is the digital music era people - profit in pennies is better than no profit at all.

Thanks Jon
Thats a good post

[SoundScience]

Sound like this idea was not fully thought through, and was conceived during some 4am meetings over contraband.

Peven: Let's see...how does $150 a track sound?
Billie: I don't know, we're owed $6 billion from illegal downloads, sound kinda low
Peven: $150 it is, we will recoup in no time
Billie:When word spreads to DHP, DJ's will be ringing us off the hook!

Fixed!

[DeesKo]

$150 a track is gonna make it better?

Ya'll are stuck arguing with me about this $150 a track number. I've already said I don't agree with PE's number. It's a ridiculous number, both for his music & to be used as a baseline for extrapolating across an entire licensed mix.

His number being ridiculous does not mean the idea/premise is ridiculous.

There's a market there. This industry just insists on ignoring it.

That's why even "middle tier" jocks aren't making enough money to quit their day jobs, the inability to vet out multiple alternative revenue streams.

[blackwax]

Ya'll are stuck arguing with me about this $150 a track number. I've already said I don't agree with PE's number. It's a ridiculous number, both for his music & to be used as a baseline for extrapolating across an entire licensed mix.

His number being ridiculous does not mean the idea/premise is ridiculous.

There's a market there. This industry just insists on ignoring it.

That's why even "middle tier" jocks aren't making enough money to quit their day jobs, the inability to vet out multiple alternative revenue streams.

and in my 1st post the first thing I said was

in principle its a good idea

;-)