... is more powerful than ever back in the country where the journey began, the USA.

[Myron]

I haven't seen this scene get much younger. Everytime I am out to deep house clubs/events most of the patrons are older than I am (and I am 35 years old). ...And i'm not trying to rag on deep house, because I love the music and the scene, but it is what it is if you want it to grow and make money.

On the "whiter" and "european" thing, they have already cornered the younger patrons, which is why they are able to do this. It's the same with hip-hop. They have used samples from some of the great musical pieces of the past to create a "new" history or convey the history (their influences) from their own speak.

Maybe it's a difference in perspective, and I'm sure many will disagree, but I don't see the "whiter, more European" scene as totally separate from the black deep house scene. I see that scene as a decendent of the U.S. Deep House scene. All this "nu" disco/boogie/slow house sounds like NYC/Chicago Soulful House and Club Music in a new package; "nu" deep house that's so popular right now is essentially Detroit house and techno. These "nu" sounds are not really that new, it's just marketed differently to a younger crowd.

[DeesKo]

Yes?

LOL

Shit...we're talking about being a successful you. A lot of the things you have done to acquire and grow your business are applicable to this thread.

(BTW...thanks for sharing the backstory of your work all these years)

They are all obviously connected, but I think the angles you need to take vary depending on what you're doing and . IMO, you're talking about vastly different roles with vastly different goals and really, vastly different methods of determining success.

IMO, this is a high risk game and being unable to focus on exactly which role you are assuming will limit the chance of success. One of the reasons we have things like half-assed fliers is because people are trying to be all 3 at once. Very, very few people are cut out for that. Even fewer are able to recognize when they aren't & step back.

I just tend to see the three distinct business lines all merged into one far too often, as if their business methods, models etc are interchangeable.

Have a whole bunch of thoughts on this, most of them rambling like shit, but I gotta put the kids to bed. I'll try to revisit later.

Peace

[Daniel, Grand Duke of Stony Island]

Danny

Just like golf, there isn't one "answer". However, like golf, dedication, hard work, and money get folks to the big dance. Also, investing in ones self on the range of life pays huge dividends.

Then again, maybe the answer to the question is in the doing.

You don't have to tell me, brother. I found my swing down in the dirt. 3 years of looking down and knowing in my bones it's there. 3 years of feeling like a failure. Ignoring the results. Health jacked. Family failed. No work. Alone. Staring at that ball. Should be doing all sorts of something else, but fixated on the blessed torture. It would take days to feel a ball come off the club the way I wanted. Days, dawg. And then, just when I thought I found it, I return to oblivion. Seeking it down in the dirt, I figured out that it isn't about where, but about what and why. Not, "where is it" but, "what is it" and "do I find it within?" Shit - "should I even care." And that's when I found the truth. It ain't about what, where or why. Sounded good at the time but even that was histrionic bullshit.

It's WHO.

Who, dawg. That question.

Golf and business have a rapturous relationship. Always have. It's because, in the end, it's about WHO. Two experts, both with the same putt. Both with the same line and stroke. One guy's goes in dead center. One guy's lips out. We say, "That's golf." We mean, "That's life."

You let me be serious about playing and leave me to do my work - allow me to be free to do, instead of teach or put on an exhibition or shoulder my playing partners - and, at minimum, I'll par any course you put me on. I lost a lot to be able to do that. Nothing I wasn't cool with losing.

Yo - this House music thing. Doesn't seem much different. What is it? Do I find it within? Should we even care? It ain't what, where or when. It's WHO. Now, when it comes to our scene, what does that mean? That's where I was trying to steer us...before we put the issue back on what we're more comfortable with discussing...like real estate...or liquor sales...or believing and dreaming and other such nonsense...

[House]

I've dreamed of many things....and did them. Those who have no dream usually have no vision. Where there is no vision, the people perish.

[DaveR]

They are all obviously connected, but I think the angles you need to take vary depending on what you're doing and . IMO, you're talking about vastly different roles with vastly different goals and really, vastly different methods of determining success.

IMO, this is a high risk game and being unable to focus on exactly which role you are assuming will limit the chance of success. One of the reasons we have things like half-assed fliers is because people are trying to be all 3 at once. Very, very few people are cut out for that. Even fewer are able to recognize when they aren't & step back.

I just tend to see the three distinct business lines all merged into one far too often, as if their business methods, models etc are interchangeable.

Have a whole bunch of thoughts on this, most of them rambling like shit, but I gotta put the kids to bed. I'll try to revisit later.

Peace

I disagree with the three distinct business lines approach ... that model is all but gone (unless one's name is Madonna or Prince)

... these times are rough - from music, to yes, even the big bad corporate world ... gone are the days when the Manager had 1 job - and an assistant (to do all of his/her memos), and the analyst/artist to put together the presentations, and the financial analyst to run the numbers ... these days as Manager, if you can't put together a financial report, craft a lucid message, and put together your own presentation, one's next job will be determinine the shortest line to hop in to, at the unemployment office

... industries (both serious and fun-serious) require more from the upper eschelon (even artists) ... from keeping in touch with ones fans, to owning/managing one's message & branding (website, FB, Twitter, other promos), right along with the delivery ... wasn't it Karizma that did the 'hand drawn' collectors set for his fans? (we big upped that, and I believe we've all been witness to his rise through the years, but now are talking about 'separation' of duties)

[DeesKo]

I disagree with the three distinct business lines approach ... that model is all but gone (unless one's name is Madonna or Prince)

... these times are rough - from music, to yes, even the big bad corporate world ... gone are the days when the Manager had 1 job - and an assistant (to do all of his/her memos), and the analyst/artist to put together the presentations, and the financial analyst to run the numbers ... these days as Manager, if you can't put together a financial report, craft a lucid message, and put together your own presentation, one's next job will be determinine the shortest line to hop in to, at the unemployment office

... industries (both serious and fun-serious) require more from the upper eschelon (even artists) ... from keeping in touch with ones fans, to owning/managing one's message & branding (website, FB, Twitter, other promos), right along with the delivery ... wasn't it Karizma that did the 'hand drawn' collectors set for his fans? (we big upped that, and I believe we've all been witness to his rise through the years, but now are talking about 'separation' of duties)

I've always talked about a seperation of duties, for numerous reasons.

Suggesting people go out and take out loans and invest in themselves without encouraging them to be honest with themselves and outsource when appropriate (most of the time) is doing nothing but asking people to lose their asses. The track record of people trying to do it all by themselves in the house scene speaks for itself. There's more potential profit in making a website clowning shitty fliers than there is in creating professional flyers.

If someone's going to go out and buy a club & they don't have any professional knowledge of marketing, they need to hire someone who does. If they don't have any professional experience with interior design, they need to hire someone who does. If they don't have the money to do these things, they need to either barter, pray or wait.

The amount of praying you do is directly related to your willingness to give away whatever you've invested.

When I was renovating my old townhouse, I spent 2 days fighting tooth & nail with a hammer, a chisel & a large screwdriver trying to pull up the wood rails that hold the carpet in place on the stairs. I damaged the hardwood on 2 seperate stairs, I busted the shit out of 3 knuckles, I was getting frustrated & I was spending a LOT of time dealing with the issue. I went to Home Depot & bought a tool they make to do this kind of thing & had the rest of the stairs done in one afternoon with no busted knuckles & no damage to the stairs.

You don't know you're failing until you're successful.

Is it the point of a CEO to do everything within a company, or to be able to build and lead a team that can ?

(we have diametrically opposed views on this and IMO neither is completely right or wrong as the path to take is entirely dependant on the situation & the individual, but i like the discussion nonetheless)

[House]

I've always talked about a seperation of duties, for numerous reasons.

Suggesting people go out and take out loans and invest in themselves without encouraging them to be honest with themselves and outsource when appropriate (most of the time) is doing nothing but asking people to lose their asses. The track record of people trying to do it all by themselves in the house scene speaks for itself. There's more potential profit in making a website clowning shitty fliers than there is in creating professional flyers.

I would think that one can do both. Everyday, folks engage in, and invest in, projects in which they have no subject matter expertise. However, they do have the willingness to invest in themselves and these projects with both real and sweat equity.

I'm not sureifyou had any idea on how to own and operate a store until you decided that you were going to be about owning and operating a store? However, you did it

[DaveR]

I've always talked about a seperation of duties, for numerous reasons.

Suggesting people go out and take out loans and invest in themselves without encouraging them to be honest with themselves and outsource when appropriate (most of the time) is doing nothing but asking people to lose their asses. The track record of people trying to do it all by themselves in the house scene speaks for itself. There's more potential profit in making a website clowning shitty fliers than there is in creating professional flyers.

If someone's going to go out and buy a club & they don't have any professional knowledge of marketing, they need to hire someone who does. If they don't have any professional experience with interior design, they need to hire someone who does. If they don't have the money to do these things, they need to either barter, pray or wait.

The amount of praying you do is directly related to your willingness to give away whatever you've invested.

When I was renovating my old townhouse, I spent 2 days fighting tooth & nail with a hammer, a chisel & a large screwdriver trying to pull up the wood rails that hold the carpet in place on the stairs. I damaged the hardwood on 2 seperate stairs, I busted the shit out of 3 knuckles, I was getting frustrated & I was spending a LOT of time dealing with the issue. I went to Home Depot & bought a tool they make to do this kind of thing & had the rest of the stairs done in one afternoon with no busted knuckles & no damage to the stairs.

You don't know you're failing until you're successful.

Is it the point of a CEO to do everything within a company, or to be able to build and lead a team that can ?

(we have diametrically opposed views on this and IMO neither is completely right or wrong as the path to take is entirely dependant on the situation & the individual, but i like the discussion nonetheless)

aight, we're apart on this approach ...

... maybe some common ground is that no matter what level one is at (in boring biz, or even the music business), that anything one's name is on, should be proofed for content/accuracy ... totally understand that e.g. a CEO or big star can't be involved in everything, however, these days (with the tools available to everyone - mostly technology) ... you gave the example of piss poor promotions (w/ typos et al) - it doesn't require much these days, for an artist to say "yo, send me the flyer before you promote, advertise or even post it (so I can make sure you spelled my name correctly) ... yes? ... ... trust is trust, and doesn't extend to e.g. a more mature organization, but DJs should at least be proofin' (via email) stuff that their camp is putting out -- like I said, we ain't talking Prince or Madonna here; I can't think of many jocks (eluded to in the House industry), that are 'that busy'

[DeesKo]

I would think that one can do both. Everyday, folks engage in, and invest in, projects in which they have no subject matter expertise. However, they do have the willingness to invest in themselves and these projects with both real and sweat equity.

I'm not sureifyou had any idea on how to own and operate a store until you decided that you were going to be about owning and operating a store? However, you did it

The question isn't really whether I own and operate a store, or whether I've failed at owning the store yet or not, but whether I've been successful.

To be honest, I don't know if we've been successful or not. Sometimes it doesn't feel like we've been very successful when we're robbing Peter to pay Paul and waking up every morning and the first thing you do is check your bank online to see if you bounced any checks... but we tell ourselves we made it through the worst recession in our lifetimes, and we just keep going.

It seems like we've been successful since we haven't failed, but I don't know what a store like ours SHOULD be doing sales wise, margins wise, etc so I'm really flying by the seat of my pants with no REAL knowledge or comparisons by which to judge. I don't know if we're successful. We could be unsuccessful and not know it.

I don't have any real numbers to back up whether any previous marketing money was spent wisely or not. I don't have any REAL tax knowledge to know whether we're maximizing our returns or not. I don't have any marketing experience to know whether I could improve my margins by 5% by simply rearranging the store. The list goes on and on.

It's been a brutal learning curve. Most importantly, there are some areas where my lack of subject matter expertise has cost me, and hindered our success.

Thing is, most of the time, you don't know you're bleeding money because of your lack of expertise, until you gain expertise. You don't know you're failing until you manage to become successful. You also don't know how many other areas you're failing in, because, again, you don't know you're failing until you're successful.

I don't know. Maybe it's the constant, nagging self-doubt that keeps me pushing.

In the end, yes, some people are going to be able to juggle. Some people are going to be able to do it all.

The current state of the house scene in the US would indicate many of those people are not in the house music industry.

[DeesKo]

aight, we're apart on this approach ...

... maybe some common ground is that no matter what level one is at (in boring biz, or even the music business), that anything one's name is on, should be proofed for content/accuracy ... totally understand that e.g. a CEO or big star can't be involved in everything, however, these days (with the tools available to everyone - mostly technology) ... you gave the example of piss poor promotions (w/ typos et al) - it doesn't require much these days, for an artist to say "yo, send me the flyer before you promote, advertise or even post it (so I can make sure you spelled my name correctly) ... yes? ... ... trust is trust, and doesn't extend to e.g. a more mature organization, but DJs should at least be proofin' (via email) stuff that their camp is putting out -- like I said, we ain't talking Prince or Madonna here; I can't think of many jocks (eluded to in the House industry), that are 'that busy'

I don't disagree with any of this...

Mostly because it assumes there are different people doing the flyers than making the music, and I'm down with that. Differentiation of responsibilities and all.



On a serious note, the typos etc are the obvious issues. Going beyond typos, accomplished professional graphic designers achieve that because they often times possess a certain artist quality and/or knowledge that I don't have. I don't understand colors and how they go together or how they effect a person's view of whatever you're promoting. I can tell you what looks cool to me, but that is like my wife telling me a blend is good.... it probably doesn't mean much.

I've sat with graf artists and had them break down color schemes on peices and it made me realize exactly how little I know about that stuff.

Pevenn probably thought that webpage about his new royalty idea looked good too, nahmean?


Peace

[House]

The question isn't really whether I own and operate a store, or whether I've failed at owning the store yet or not, but whether I've been successful.

To be honest, I don't know if we've been successful or not. Sometimes it doesn't feel like we've been very successful when we're robbing Peter to pay Paul and waking up every morning and the first thing you do is check your bank online to see if you bounced any checks... but we tell ourselves we made it through the worst recession in our lifetimes, and we just keep going.

It seems like we've been successful since we haven't failed, but I don't know what a store like ours SHOULD be doing sales wise, margins wise, etc so I'm really flying by the seat of my pants with no REAL knowledge or comparisons by which to judge. I don't know if we're successful. We could be unsuccessful and not know it.

I don't have any real numbers to back up whether any previous marketing money was spent wisely or not. I don't have any REAL tax knowledge to know whether we're maximizing our returns or not. I don't have any marketing experience to know whether I could improve my margins by 5% by simply rearranging the store. The list goes on and on.

It's been a brutal learning curve. Most importantly, there are some areas where my lack of subject matter expertise has cost me, and hindered our success.

Thing is, most of the time, you don't know you're bleeding money because of your lack of expertise, until you gain expertise. You don't know you're failing until you manage to become successful. You also don't know how many other areas you're failing in, because, again, you don't know you're failing until you're successful.

I don't know. Maybe it's the constant, nagging self-doubt that keeps me pushing.

In the end, yes, some people are going to be able to juggle. Some people are going to be able to do it all.

The current state of the house scene in the US would indicate many of those people are not in the house music industry.

In The span of 12 years, beginning in the 1840s, Rowland Massey opened 4 dry goods tores. They all failed. However, the fifth store prospered. Today, Macy's is still a working venture because Mr Macy followed his dream. Failures are only temporary setbacks for the truly committed. Any inventor will tell you that. In the end, the question is whether you owned or operated a store. The answer is therefor "yes. You re successful"; because you made your dreams manifest. Most people never make it to that stage. If they dream at all, that dream stays in their heads. That's how the ephemeral remains that way. Me, I write things down. That's the first step

Jmo

[mhd]

c'mon fellas, typos? flyers?

[DaveR]

c'mon fellas, typos? flyers?

Yes

Japanese Department Store May Want to Look Up the Word ‘Fucking’



http://gawker.com/5874304/japanese-d...e-word-fucking

If only we could have sat in on the meeting where the marketing team for this Osaka department store came up with the idea for their "Fuckin' Sale," spotted early this month by a reader of Jake Adelstein's Japan Subculture blog.

-There should be some cool English words on these signs.
-How about "Fuckin' Sale?"
-What's that mean?
-Fuckin' means, like, really good. So it's a really good sale.
-And there's no other meaning to "fuckin'? Nothing at all that might embarrass us on the internet? Remember what happened with our Save-a-Shit-Ton promotion…

[House]

c'mon fellas, typos? flyers?

As a lawyer, you know that a comma in the wrong place can make huge difference

Would you submit a contract w typos and poor grammar?

http://grammar.about.com/od/punctuat...tmatters07.htm


Cost of a Misplaced Comma: $2.13 Million

If you happen to work in the legal division of Rogers Communications Inc., you've already learned the lesson that punctuation matters. According to Toronto's Globe and Mail for August 6, 2006, a misplaced comma in a contract to string cable lines along utility poles may cost the Canadian company a whopping $2.13 million.

Back in 2002, when the company signed off on a contract with Aliant Inc., the folks at Rogers were confident that they had locked up a long-term agreement. They were surprised, therefore, when in early 2005 Aliant gave notice of a hefty rate-hike--and even more surprised when regulators with the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) backed their claim.

It's all right there on page seven of the contract, where it states that the agreement "shall continue in force for a period of five years from the date it is made, and thereafter for successive five year terms, unless and until terminated by one year prior notice in writing by either party.”

The devil is in the details--or, more specifically, in the second comma. “Based on the rules of punctuation,” observed the CRTC regulators, the comma in question “allows for the termination of the [contract] at any time, without cause, upon one-year's written notice.”

[DeesKo]

I've been thinking about this a bit and all this other bullshit aside.... the only thing that has REALLY significantly changed is access to funds/leverage and the level of expectations of your customers.

If you are a current (or aspiring) club owner:

You will have easier access to investors and/or lenders.

Plan appropriately for paying for interior design, radio promotions, a marketing professional, initial inventory & initial DJ booking fees for some big willy EDM jocks.

If you are going the traditional lending route, make sure you emphasize EDM (not deep house) in your business plan. Do not reference Deep House. Reference EDM. In your synopsis highlight your plan to capture the rapidly expanding EDM scene and highlight (with numbers) how much money & interest is flowing into EDM right now. Highlight Ultra, highlight Chosen Few Picnic, highlight Vegas clubs focusing on EDM etc. Buddy Love posted a breakdown of a club in NYC for you to get a realistic look at numbers. Use that resource.

After you get the cash, give multiple interior designers a realistic budget & your vision and let them roll with it and give you plans. Same with marketing groups. After you pick the two that most closely blend with your budget & vision, hold a kickoff meeting to discuss rollout plans. Organize. Set milestones. Get your shit in order to properly plan for pre-opening rollout actions (private parties etc) and stay on top of them to make sure milestones are being met.

Spend the money initially to hire some big dawgs as headliners. You can transition to a local jock that plays more current EDM mixed with deep house for the after-hours. The later it gets, the deeper it gets. Have your in-house dealers reduce prices for blow after 3am to entice people to stay (and stay longer).


If you are a producer and/or DJ

You will have easier access to artists and/or labels outside the Deep House scene.

Work on perfecting music that fits within the pop/radio format (no more than 3/4 minutes long, no DJ friendly beat only intros/outros, 2 or 3 simple verses & 2 or 3 catchy ass hooks, no long noodling solos, big room sound kits etc). Work on your mastering and particularly your sound dynamics (reverb, kicks, making your shit sound wide and spacious etc). Do not promote yourself to labels or artists as a Deep House producer, you are an EDM producer now. Work on finding a management deal with a known firm. Hire a PR and/or Image consultant with a track record in the music/EDM scene. Update your musical collection with this new EDM stuff & start focusing on gigs at more mainstream clubs so you can network within that scene & get noticed.

Do not bicker online over dumb shit. When faced with the option of opening your mouth or not online, choose not too at every turn.


There's obviously a lot more to this, but really... not THAT much has changed. Deep house folks who want to crossover don't have as far to travel in order to cross over, there will be better access to money to fund the trip but be careful because once you get there, the level of expectation is going to be higher than what you're used too.

Just my opinion.

Peace