I demand this...

[ngeso]

I could post GU and the strictly Jazz Unit ones, I can remember some peculiar points there.

Idance

I had Rebirth Brass Band in ca. '96, their's stipulated they be taken for a grand physical tour of Frankfurt red light district. After the gig we had to take them fucking.

One general experience I have mostly had is that the more inexperienced the performer(s), the more "interesting" their tour requirements and off-stage-antics became. Conversely I have grovelled many a time to a (for me) iconic artist, only to find out that they are the most normal, unassuming and down-to-earth cats possible.

[DaBownca]

I couldn't even fix my face............ Beyond paying me and providing accommodations not only am I satisfied you held up your end of the deal I DON'T WANT YOU IN MY BUSINESS LIKE THAT

[Murf]

I could post GU and the strictly Jazz Unit ones, I can remember some peculiar points there.

Idance

Post it please...

He's supposed to be a christian and then comes with a lot of hatred for homosexuals.....

Jesus was cool with the gays, his step-dad Joey was gay...

plus jesus hung out with a lots of men

[Marshall Jefferson]

I couldn't even fix my face............ Beyond paying me and providing accommodations not only am I satisfied you held up your end of the deal I DON'T WANT YOU IN MY BUSINESS LIKE THAT

Uh huh. What about picking you up from and taking you to the airport and the club? Or would you like to figure that out yourself when you're in Beijing? How about people doing coke and smack behind you in the booth in Singapore, where dope possession is punishable by death? Good luck convincing the locals the black guy (you) had nothing to do with the drugs. 1993-2003, 36% of Singapore's executions were foreign nationals.

If you were a 20k+ per night DJ you wouldn't ask for your drink or at least drink tickets? You wouldn't care what mixer or sound system you were on?

[dag]

I stopped reading at the first line. I am no mathematician, but how is 8 feet=2 metres and 5 feet=1 metre?

the math is odd, but standard stage sections in america are 8 feet long and in europe (not sure about elsewhere, but guessing same as europe) 2 m long.

width gets a bit funny, as they are 4ft in the US and 1m in europe. maybe he simply wants more space in america as that is where he has more of a following?

i just cant understand hte no-active monitors issue. With the tours he does, he should be able to list a few preferred models and allow for comparable substitutions. one could provide budget level bhringer or peavey crap and still fulfill his rider

[dag]

Uh huh. What about picking you up from and taking you to the airport and the club? Or would you like to figure that out yourself when you're in Beijing? How about people doing coke and smack behind you in the booth in Singapore, where dope possession is punishable by death? Good luck convincing the locals the black guy (you) had nothing to do with the drugs. 1993-2003, 36% of Singapore's executions were foreign nationals.

If you were a 20k+ per night DJ you wouldn't ask for your drink or at least drink tickets? You wouldn't care what mixer or sound system you were on?

if on a long tour, it could actually be cheaper for a promoter to send an intern out to buy some socks than to have the performer and production team fly a suitcase full of socks, never mind the downtime required to wash and dry them

[Daniel, Grand Duke of Stony Island]

Anyone else catch the irony of Steve Aoki going to the Internet to explain away his pretentious-ass rider and coming away seeming even more pretentious?

Doin' all he can for locally sourced organics 'n shit.

An illusion is more enjoyable if you don't think it's an illusion. If I was a traveling performer in this age, I wouldn't send an email, PDF, Tweet, post to a blog - none of that shit. I'd send hand written notes in code on the legs of carrier pigeons and only offer the code key via appointed squire.

Even when used right, it winds up wrong.

[ngeso]

if on a long tour, it could actually be cheaper for a promoter to send an intern out to buy some socks than to have the performer and production team fly a suitcase full of socks, never mind the downtime required to wash and dry them

How about his management sort out his wardrobe issues? If an artist wants to travel light, how is that my problem as a local promoter?

[DaBownca]

Uh huh. What about picking you up from and taking you to the airport and the club? Or would you like to figure that out yourself when you're in Beijing? How about people doing coke and smack behind you in the booth in Singapore, where dope possession is punishable by death? Good luck convincing the locals the black guy (you) had nothing to do with the drugs. 1993-2003, 36% of Singapore's executions were foreign nationals.

If you were a 20k+ per night DJ you wouldn't ask for your drink or at least drink tickets? You wouldn't care what mixer or sound system you were on?

Well the first point I ma kind of like an explorer so figuring that out would be kind of part of my fun and more than likely I would want to arrive early enough that I could enjoy that aspect.
The second point I couldn't possibly know about unless I had been there or someone I knew were there but that being said I can agree that could be in a standard rider
the drink tickets I can cop too although if I am making 20 k spending $50 at the bar or more if I buy a round or two won't kill me
The sound system issue I would think would be addressed before I agreed to play at the club. I would certainly ask the questions and if they would accomodate it via rider why not while negotiating the booking.
I've never played anywhere where anything beyond a standard contract was required so excuse my ignorance if it applies and educate if you can please.

[DeesKo]

If I was a traveling performer in this age, I wouldn't send an email, PDF, Tweet, post to a blog - none of that shit. I'd send hand written notes in code on the legs of carrier pigeons and only offer the code key via appointed squire.

Even when used right, it winds up wrong.

Right?

All your business handled via Trac Phones & beeper codes.

Your rider just says "Call -1-800-239-2345 and enter your assigned beeper code "00012123" + the phone number of the Trac Phone attached to this document and wait for my call.

[DaveR]

If some of the people here got that same level of success, I'd like to see what would be in THEIR rider ....

exactly ... would probably look somethin' like this

- 15 required bulletin board posts, proclaiming how 'fiyah' the event was
- No cameras allowed (b/c we know the rider point above is BS)
- Promise that the event won't go on hiatus in the next 4 weeks, so the DJ can return
- 21 boxes of Twinkies, 151 boxes of Hohos, 157 bags of Lays
- 3 XXXXXXL TShirts (all for the DJ, b/c he/she is gonna sweat through 2)

... love how cats simultaneously can talk smack about cats and venues like this, DJ net worth, and topics the likes ... then 1 hour later, are complaining about their own scene, who wasn't there, and that House Lives (ala Elvis)

[dag]

How about his management sort out his wardrobe issues? If an artist wants to travel light, how is that my problem as a local promoter?

who do you think wrote the rider? i sure as hell doubt he was sending it out.

its a rider - comply with or dont book. if you wanted to spend 5 figures booking some guy to draw a few thousand people to spend x amount of money for your event, would you really want to jeopardize things by arguing over socks? its not just a matter of travelling light, but the downtime required to maintain a supposed high standard. he "paid" his dues, draws the numbers - if you want to play that game, those are the rules. Same goes for bands where each member has their own bus. ticket prices simply get larger. However, he flies, and hops from airport to airport, where mouth wash is difficult to travel with

is the hospitality section over the top, absolutely. i also dont understand why he cant manage to carry a serato scratch amp with him, but if i wanted ot book someone that acts like a douchebag in oder to make money off thousands of others, thats hte cost of business

[the crackhouse]

Well the first point I ma kind of like an explorer so figuring that out would be kind of part of my fun and more than likely I would want to arrive early enough that I could enjoy that aspect.

Those guys are giging between flights, trying to sleep in planes during their summer tours. They don't have much free time. Yes, cause they're paid all the way.

The second point I couldn't possibly know about unless I had been there or someone I knew were there but that being said I can agree that could be in a standard rider
the drink tickets I can cop too although if I am making 20 k spending $50 at the bar or more if I buy a round or two won't kill me

Problem is if you do Paris, Beijing, Tokyo, you would have to find a bank and change your dollars in other currencies... Bit of time killer there.
Plus that's not how much you're making for yourself, $50 is about 2 people paying to see you Dj. So it's like they're paying for your drinks.
In Belgium in many clubs you'll have to pay to take a pee, would you imagine Jeff Mills pissing in an empty platic bottle cause he didn't have any coins? lol

The sound system issue I would think would be addressed before I agreed to play at the club. I would certainly ask the questions and if they would accomodate it via rider why not while negotiating the booking.

Let's say they tell you they have all you need, and you come there and the picture is not what you were told... Big hurts for your career!
And what about you're playing on some chinese equipment where you can seem to understand where the faders are?

I've never played anywhere where anything beyond a standard contract was required so excuse my ignorance if it applies and educate if you can please.

That's okay, you can still come to Steve next party and get some cake-in-yo-face for $50.

Idance

[DeesKo]

Well the first point I ma kind of like an explorer so figuring that out would be kind of part of my fun and more than likely I would want to arrive early enough that I could enjoy that aspect.
The second point I couldn't possibly know about unless I had been there or someone I knew were there but that being said I can agree that could be in a standard rider
the drink tickets I can cop too although if I am making 20 k spending $50 at the bar or more if I buy a round or two won't kill me
The sound system issue I would think would be addressed before I agreed to play at the club. I would certainly ask the questions and if they would accomodate it via rider why not while negotiating the booking.
I've never played anywhere where anything beyond a standard contract was required so excuse my ignorance if it applies and educate if you can please.

You're reading riders that appear too swarmy for your tastes and overlooking a couple of things IMO.

Most importantly, when you're at this level, you want everything as standardized as possible. You want as few variables at play as you can get. That extends out all the way to how you interact at the very beginning of a proposition. A rider is nothing more than a simplified, direct means of negotiating a booking in a manner that prevents anyone from forgetting what, ultimately could be a pretty important thing. I'm hung over and negotiating a booking in Rome after only getting 8 hours of sleep in 3 days and I've got to remember all this shit I need to make sure I can get off a plane in a new country, hit the club 4 hours later, bang that shit out, and be back on another plane in 24 hours. You've got people investing a lot of money on you being able to do that, your professionalism is at stake to be able to do that, there's nothing wrong with having it written out and set so you can say "here's what I need, get back to me if you're still interested". It's even more important to make sure it covers every aspect possible to make the entire process as easy as can be.

You know how much time it would take someone to have to figure out accomodations & vehicles for someone travelling 200 days a year, staying 1-2 days in each spot? That shit would be a nightmare alone. Not to mention the tracking of money on credit cards used to reserve vehicles etc.

That also helps you weed out the serious from the not so serious.

Just my opinion on the purpose of a rider.

The contents of said rider, ehhhh I can't hate.

[the crackhouse]

who do you think wrote the rider? i sure as hell doubt he was sending it out.

its a rider - comply with or dont book. if you wanted to spend 5 figures booking some guy to draw a few thousand people to spend x amount of money for your event, would you really want to jeopardize things by arguing over socks? its not just a matter of travelling light, but the downtime required to maintain a supposed high standard. he "paid" his dues, draws the numbers - if you want to play that game, those are the rules. Same goes for bands where each member has their own bus. ticket prices simply get larger. However, he flies, and hops from airport to airport, where mouth wash is difficult to travel with

is the hospitality section over the top, absolutely. i also dont understand why he cant manage to carry a serato scratch amp with him, but if i wanted ot book someone that acts like a douchebag in oder to make money off thousands of others, thats hte cost of business

You could sell the socks after the event.

More money thanks to Steve.

Idance

[dag]

Well the first point I ma kind of like an explorer so figuring that out would be kind of part of my fun and more than likely I would want to arrive early enough that I could enjoy that aspect.
The second point I couldn't possibly know about unless I had been there or someone I knew were there but that being said I can agree that could be in a standard rider
the drink tickets I can cop too although if I am making 20 k spending $50 at the bar or more if I buy a round or two won't kill me
The sound system issue I would think would be addressed before I agreed to play at the club. I would certainly ask the questions and if they would accomodate it via rider why not while negotiating the booking.
I've never played anywhere where anything beyond a standard contract was required so excuse my ignorance if it applies and educate if you can please.

exploring can be fun, but there is often no time for that. exploring is often limited to simply getting dinner, because as soon as you leave the event, you are off to the hotel to sleep and then get to the airport on time. Arriving early is often met with press stuff (depending on the market, a radio interview), which while obviously useful for the performer also often benefits the promoter.

earn 20k a gig and spend time at the bar? what? anyone getting paid that much money for a gig is gonna get swarmed the moment they leave the secured areas for performers.

if a performance sounds bad (sonically, artistically, etc), who does the local crowd blame - promoter? performer? better believe it is the best interest for the performer to make sure that there is minimized potential for something to reflect poorly on the performer, which is why bands regulary insist on specific sound systems. In that regard, i will repeat my confusion about aokis monitor requests, and a diagram should be included to remove any doubt how the vocals and music should be routed for the stage sound systems. he (and i mean that in the royal he, as aoki is nothing more or less than an entertainment product at this point) spends more text on his snacks than what is necessary to get the best performance out of him

[dag]

You could sell the socks after the event.

More money thanks to Steve.

Idance

sheeeit, if i was in that game, id try to auction off their undies.

[ngeso]

who do you think wrote the rider? i sure as hell doubt he was sending it out.

its a rider - comply with or dont book. if you wanted to spend 5 figures booking some guy to draw a few thousand people to spend x amount of money for your event, would you really want to jeopardize things by arguing over socks? its not just a matter of travelling light, but the downtime required to maintain a supposed high standard. he "paid" his dues, draws the numbers - if you want to play that game, those are the rules. Same goes for bands where each member has their own bus. ticket prices simply get larger. However, he flies, and hops from airport to airport, where mouth wash is difficult to travel with

is the hospitality section over the top, absolutely. i also dont understand why he cant manage to carry a serato scratch amp with him, but if i wanted ot book someone that acts like a douchebag in oder to make money off thousands of others, thats hte cost of business

Sorry man, ran a club and booked 100+ p.a. of these for 10 years. DJs, live bands, stage performance, the whole deal. It's what I did.

The hospitality rider in particular can be subject to negotiation before contract signing. Which means: I'm a promoter, so hotel, food, booze and the tech are rarely an issue, as I have standardised that part of MY business. But I'm not running a personal valet service, meaning I'm not paying for socks or a lifeboat or an internet bill or any other crap I have no use for after you've rode out of town. And I'm not paying wages for people that work for you, not me. End of story. Take the gig or fuck off. Get me?

[dag]

You're reading riders that appear too swarmy for your tastes and overlooking a couple of things IMO.

Most importantly, when you're at this level, you want everything as standardized as possible. You want as few variables at play as you can get. That extends out all the way to how you interact at the very beginning of a proposition. A rider is nothing more than a simplified, direct means of negotiating a booking in a manner that prevents anyone from forgetting what, ultimately could be a pretty important thing. I'm hung over and negotiating a booking in Rome after only getting 8 hours of sleep in 3 days and I've got to remember all this shit I need to make sure I can get off a plane in a new country, hit the club 4 hours later, bang that shit out, and be back on another plane in 24 hours. You've got people investing a lot of money on you being able to do that, your professionalism is at stake to be able to do that, there's nothing wrong with having it written out and set so you can say "here's what I need, get back to me if you're still interested". It's even more important to make sure it covers every aspect possible to make the entire process as easy as can be.

You know how much time it would take someone to have to figure out accomodations & vehicles for someone travelling 200 days a year, staying 1-2 days in each spot? That shit would be a nightmare alone. Not to mention the tracking of money on credit cards used to reserve vehicles etc.

That also helps you weed out the serious from the not so serious.

Just my opinion on the purpose of a rider.

The contents of said rider, ehhhh I can't hate.

the guys that i know that tour like crazy tend to let their agents handle the booking negotiations. sure, they arent and never will be in his bracket (wrong music), but they are simply told where they go next and who to meet.

[DaBownca]

Sorry man, ran a club and booked 100+ p.a. of these for 10 years. DJs, live bands, stage performance, the whole deal. It's what I did.

The hospitality rider in particular can be subject to negotiation before contract signing. Which means: I'm a promoter, so hotel, food, booze and the tech are rarely an issue, as I have standardised that part of MY business. But I'm not running a personal valet service, meaning I'm not paying for socks or a lifeboat or an internet bill or any other crap I have no use for after you've rode out of town. And I'm not paying wages for people that work for you, not me. End of story. Take the gig or fuck off. Get me?

That is what I am feeling right there ......some things should be standard and therefore no rider required
and dag I wouldn't go to the bar myself I would have someone familiar with me to do that

[dag]

Sorry man, ran a club and booked 100+ p.a. of these for 10 years. DJs, live bands, stage performance, the whole deal. It's what I did.

The hospitality rider in particular can be subject to negotiation before contract signing. Which means: I'm a promoter, so hotel, food, booze and the tech are rarely an issue, as I have standardised that part of MY business. But I'm not running a personal valet service, meaning I'm not paying for socks or a lifeboat or an internet bill or any other crap I have no use for after you've rode out of town. And I'm not paying wages for people that work for you, not me. End of story. Take the gig or fuck off. Get me?

did any of your acts draw thousands of people to your club?

aoki came through berlin in april. instead of playing a club, he played at a multi-purpose venue (postbahnhof - a former mail loading train terminal). instead of costing 15€ like it would be if jeff mills played berghain, it cost 24.50€

did you run said venue in the internet age? Because that extra room charge to pay for the internet could be chump change compared to the extra promotions the performer might make from his room. just one extra guest has already paid for the internet fee. Lifeboat and pump can be rented locally and is really no more of a big deal (in fact potentially easier than renting a serato scratch amp) than a confetti blaster while adding the benefit to your audience that they experience something at YOUR event which they dont at any others. At one time, monitors were mystical devices, too.

dont get me wrong, i would never make an offer to these kinds of performers, either. its all the same to me as britney spears or uefa or formula one...

[dag]

That is what I am feeling right there ......some things should be standard and therefore no rider required
and dag I wouldn't go to the bar myself I would have someone familiar with me to do that

you just played the set of your life and have thousands of people under your spell and you want your buddy to fight his way to and from the bar to get you a coke or a beer? how about a round of shots after one of the peaks? along with subs, it should be standard to have a fridge in the performance area.

[DaveR]

you just played the set of your life and have thousands of people under your spell and you want your buddy to fight his way to and from the bar to get you a coke or a beer? ...

[El Mayimbe]

Uh huh. What about picking you up from and taking you to the airport and the club? Or would you like to figure that out yourself when you're in Beijing? How about people doing coke and smack behind you in the booth in Singapore, where dope possession is punishable by death? Good luck convincing the locals the black guy (you) had nothing to do with the drugs. 1993-2003, 36% of Singapore's executions were foreign nationals.

If you were a 20k+ per night DJ you wouldn't ask for your drink or at least drink tickets? You wouldn't care what mixer or sound system you were on?

Asking for basic amenities on your rider is obviously standard practice but when your profession is standing around and playing other peoples music it does not set you on the same level of an actual band with several key members who require certain items that would help them through their journey solidifying a good performance. Im turned off by Aoki's argument because he is pulling a rookies mistake. As a flavor of the month dj you're bound to findout the hard way that you wont be in demand sooner or later especially if you've become a nuance for the promoter who will have second thoughts of booking you for the next summer festival if you're going to be a prick about your requests.

[House]

Sorry man, ran a club and booked 100+ p.a. of these for 10 years. DJs, live bands, stage performance, the whole deal. It's what I did.

The hospitality rider in particular can be subject to negotiation before contract signing. Which means: I'm a promoter, so hotel, food, booze and the tech are rarely an issue, as I have standardised that part of MY business. But I'm not running a personal valet service, meaning I'm not paying for socks or a lifeboat or an internet bill or any other crap I have no use for after you've rode out of town. And I'm not paying wages for people that work for you, not me. End of story. Take the gig or fuck off. Get me?

I'm with you

Its interesting that sometimes on this board, experience is irrelevant

I respect that he asks for these things.

However

Everything is negotiable. I wouldn't buy him any socks or other assorted nonsense either. On principle. This market is also subject to competition. One can find another draw if one must