Star Member +
We go to jail but people like him gets away with it??!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/...hews/#48496299
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Last edited by House4Life; 08-04-2012 at 08:38 AM.
Member +
Romney is soooooooooo shady... even by politicians' standards. What a smug fuck.
MG
Super Star Member
Obviously everybody hasnt gotten the memo, the great Mrs. Helmsley once said that "Rich people dont pay taxes"
Diamond Member
He makes my skin crawl!!!!!
Diamond Member
The IRS copped Moe's(Kool Moe Dee), Mercedes off the steet in Manhattan/LOL, Condo uptown/Harlem and unlimited assets in regards to Moe not paying his taxes dating back to the late 80's(This happened during the early 90's), Even Al Capone got popped for Tax Evasion in 1932(Milt Romney has unlimited juice with his to evade the IRS/LOL, On the low, Dionne Warwick and Sinbad has evaded paying back taxes for decades without the IRS running up on them(Sinbad
Has his rest in his brothers name in Los Angeles and money more than likely has a safe with his assets in it too/LOL, While Dionne Warwick has multiple addresses that keeps the IRS from running up in her rests(Plural/LOL), To confiscate her assets(Like the IRS did to Red Foxx during the late 80's).
Much Respect
Mike Barnes
Diamond Member
Fact of the Day: Mitt Romney is over 16,000 years old!
How many of you have an IRA — Individual Retirement Account? You should. Many of us struggle to put a few hundred dollars away each month. IRAs were designed as a tax-free way for Middle Class Americans to plan for their retirement. The ANNUAL CONTRIBUTION LIMIT is $6,000 — but Mitt Romney managed to to build his IRA into a $100+ million treasure chest.
Romney has over $100,000,000 in his IRA. If the annual contribution limit is $6,000 then it would take him over 16,000 years to build his IRA to a million dollars (if he followed the rules). Mitt refuses to show us his tax returns. He won't explain how he contributed so much to his IRA.
Hide and Seek Mitt!
How much do you have in your IRA?
"On the sixth day, God created man. On the seventh day, man returned the favor."
http://www.house-mixes.com/profile/djchefron
Star Member +
We all know if this was the other way around Chump, baggers, gop, rightwinger etc would be losing their minds right now more so than with the birth certificate crap!!
WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney insisted on Friday that he has paid taxes every year and repeated that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) needs "to put up or shut up" with his accusations that he hasn't.
"Let me also say categorically: I have paid taxes every year. A lot of taxes. A lot of taxes," the presumptive GOP presidential nominee told reporters at a press availability after an event in Nevada.
"Harry Reid really has to put up or shut up, alright? So Harry, who are your sources?" Romney said, referring to Reid's claim that a Bain Capital investor told him Romney hadn't paid taxes in 10 years.
"And by the way Harry, I understand what you're trying to do. You're trying to deflect the fact that jobs numbers are bad, that Americans are out of work, and you're trying to throw anything up on the screen that will grab attention away from the fact that the policies of the White House haven't worked," Romney continued. "So Harry Reid is simply wrong."
Reid has been going after Romney all week over the candidate's failure to release his tax returns, a standard practice for presidential candidates. The Nevada Democrat sparked a firestorm when, earlier this week, he told The Huffington Post that he heard from a Bain Capital investor that Romney hadn't paid taxes for 10 years.
Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom said Reid's claims were untrue, and Romney himself said Thursday that Reid needs "to put up or shut up" and reveal his source at Bain Capital. Reid fired back that he got his information from "an extremely credible source" and pushed Romney, again, to just release his tax returns.
Pressed on Friday why he wouldn't just release his tax returns instead of engaging in a back-and-forth with Reid, Romney said people should visit his website to see his financial disclosure statements dating back to 2002 and his 2010 tax return.
"Go on the website, you'll be surprised to see the amazing amount of data that's associated with our campaign's disclosure," he said.
Earlier in the day, Reid launched another round of attacks on Romney, this time for "insulting" the American public by refusing to release his tax returns.
"It's hard to say which is more insulting to Americans' intelligence, Mitt Romney's tax plan or his refusal to show the American people what's in his tax returns," Reid said in a statement. "Romney seems to think he's above the basic level of transparency and openness that every presidential candidate has lived up to since his father set the standard in 1968."
"In short, Romney's message to Nevadans is this: He won't release his taxes, but he wants to raise yours."
Reid signaled Friday that he's not relenting in his attacks. He accused Romney of being "the most secretive presidential candidate since Richard Nixon" and pointed out that even nominees overseen by the Senate Finance Committee have to produce more tax returns that Romney is willing to release.
"Forget about president -- Mitt Romney couldn't get confirmed as a cabinet secretary," Reid said. "The contents of the one year of returns he has released would probably be enough to tank his nomination anyway: secret overseas bank accounts in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, tax avoidance tricks and a lower tax rate than middle-class families pay."
Super Star Member
Self Direced IRA. Anybody can get one. You can by almost any type of asset with a self direced ira while in a traditional one you cant. You can amass tons of cheeze in a self directed ira.Originally Posted by dj-chefron
For example, you can start a business in a self directed ira with little to no money and thereafter build it into an asset with unlimited income. Many businesses can be started with little to no money but generate millions. A self directed ira is no secret to the wealthly, but secret to those who only use middle class/traditional ways to accumulate wealth.
Think of the kid of starts a computer business in his dorm room for under $500 but builds it to a million dollar company...you can put businesses in a self directed ira. So if you have the savy to build wealth, you can amass tons quickly in a self directed ira.
I dont know how he did it specifically, but the legal ways in which he could have are unlimited. He could have purchased or been given an equity investment in a company/stock and the company grew tremendously (ie, think of the folk who were partners in Berkshire Hathaway, Facebook or Microsoft et al in the early stages...think of folk who get options or warrants in companies) ...Romney is in private equity and connected so he has tremensous access to deal flow opportunities. What hes done is reasonable. The wealthy amass wealth in ways that the middle class and poor dont.
Diamond Member
It's not necessarily illegal to not pay taxes. Using deductions and loopholes is not criminal activity, however it may be impolitic for someone running for President. He needs to release his returns and let the public decide.
Diamond Member
Bomb Cola, Can you build with me on your prior comments in regards to a cat using loopholes is not a criminal activity, My man/LOL, Bomb Cola, If a cat has nothing to hide in regards to financial stability, Why would a cat use loopholes to get around from paying taxes, My man(Exhibit A:Bomb Cola, Since you stated that using loopholes is not a criminal activity, I'll keep this dialouge on an criminal element in regards to criminal cats who we're not paying taxes, Though, We're popped
On tax evasion charges and lets start with Michael Milken and Ivan Bosky to my man Tommy(Tony Montana) Mickens, My man, Bomb Cola, Tommy Mickens was one of the biggest drug king-pins in New York(Especially in Queens, New York), During the mid to late 80's, Along with Tommy Mickens being one of the smartest drug kingpins in New York during the 80's(Money had mad businesses through-out New York and as far as California during the 80's and as for Michael Milken and
Ivan Bosky, I'm very sure those cats we're using the best of loopholes in the tax system tactics to keep their's, Yet, Those cats still we're popped on Tax Evasion charges(Along with with Insider Trading charges too), So, Bomb Cola, Can you build with me on why you feel it's not necessarily illegal to not pay taxes and using dedications and Loopholes is not a criminal activity, My man.
Much Respect
Mike Barnes
Last edited by Mike Barnes; 08-06-2012 at 11:06 AM.
Diamond Member
Mike, there are legal and illegal loopholes. I am pretty sure Romney has some of the best tax attorneys in the world (graduates of Georgetown, NYU, etc.) who understand (which I don't) the complexities of global tax laws. I used to live in Luxembourg and I know there are over 100s of thousands of companies 'domiciled' there, with profits and losses being pushed from US companies to Luxembourg, in order to take advantage of significantly lower tax rates. All legal....
However, no legal loophole will allow you to avoid taxes on money made from illegal activities, such as Mr. Mickens.
Last edited by MarkK; 08-06-2012 at 09:48 AM.
Member +
It's a similar story here in the UK.
Tax avoidance (through shady schemes) = Legal. Something only the rich can do
Tax evasion (not paying) = Illegal. You're going to jail for this.
There's a way to stop all of this sort of thing.......close the loop holes and change the laws and jail everyone who avoids and evades their tax.
Last edited by Dj Bones; 08-06-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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Diamond Member
Was there a lengthy thread about paying or not paying taxes on here before?
Diamond Member
There was, but IIRC, that had more to do with just saying "Screw it, I'm not paying", as a opposed to finding legal deductions. Think Wesley Snipes.
MikeBarnes, pretty much what MarkK said, but he gave a lot more detail than I could have. To put it simply, it's not illegal to follow the law.
Diamond Member
rmoney and his team are losing this argument.on sunday the rethugs came out with their peashooters a blazin.Calling a Harry Ried a liar.They have lost this round and they still dont know it.I f Reid is lying then release the tax returns then its up to mr moneybags to prove it
"On the sixth day, God created man. On the seventh day, man returned the favor."
http://www.house-mixes.com/profile/djchefron
Administrator
The key difference in this scenario is that these cats were:
A. making tons of money via illegal means
B. not reporting that money
That's how/why most of them got popped for tax evasion. It wasn't about using illegal loopholes, it was about not reporting earnings.
Your earnings and your taxable income are two vastly different things. Loopholes in tax law are designed to allow people to report their true earnings and then reduce their tax liability through various means... tax shelters, IRA's, 401k's, investments etc. I might make $150k a year, but after you deduct my mortgage interest, my S-corp losses, my local taxes, my child care credits etc, my TAXABLE INCOME might only be $45k.
The tax code is very lenient on allowing you to report what you actually make, and then giving you ways to reduce your liability on those earnings. They are not lenient at all on someone who doesn't report their earnings. Hence Wesley Snipes in jail and Mitt Romney running for President. Wesley didn't report his income, Romney reported it and then wrote everything off using
However, the most important part of this thread is going to go overlooked... Julian Kelly's comment is probably one of the more important pieces of info dropped on here recently. Effective navigation of tax code is something high earners do very successfully in many aspects (from reducing tax liabilities to setting up trusts to vehicles for estate planning etc). It requires significant expertise and isn't easy but things like this gem Julian just dropped are important for opening up people's minds about possibilities that extend beyond 401k's. I think I'm going to go start another thread about it so it doesn't get lost in all of this other talk.
Peace
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Diamond Member
its about effing time that the dummycrats are not backing down
Unfazed Harry Reid Keeps Hammering Romney On Taxes
The fierce pushback from Republicans against Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) appears to only be fueling his quest to tear down Mitt Romney over his finances. The Senate majority leader is telegraphing that he has no interest in letting up.
The latest salvo in the intensifying spat comes from Reid’s chief of staff David Krone, who upped the taunts by calling Republicans “a bunch of cowards” and “henchmen for Romney” in an interview with Politico late Sunday night.
“To turn it around, all their childish rants this weekend about calling Reid a ‘liar’ and all that, it just shows you how scared they are that Harry Reid was telling the truth,” Krone told the paper.
Top Republicans on Sunday flatly accused the Senate majority leader of lying when he claimed Romney didn’t pay taxes for a decade, something he says he learned of from an as-yet-unnamed investor to Bain Capital. Reflecting the frustrations of his party, an incensed Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus called Reid a “dirty liar,” and has since repeated the epithet.
Reid wasn’t fazed. His spokesman Adam Jentleson responded in the afternoon by vouching for the credibility of the source and inviting Romney to disprove the claim by releasing a series of tax returns. Calling him the “most secretive candidate since Richard Nixon,” Jentleson told TPM: “It’s clear Mitt Romney is hiding something, and the only way for him to clear this up is to be straight with the American people and release his tax returns.”
The allegation irritated the conservative Wall Street Journal editorial board, which called it “a smear from the fever swamps that say more about Mr. Reid’s ethics than they do about Mr. Romney’s taxes.” But Reid isn’t on the ballot this year; Romney is. And as the Journal argued, “Mr. Romney’s problem is that he can only disprove the charge by releasing his tax returns.”
For Romney, it’s a lose-lose proposition because doing so comes with its own risk. The Republican nominee has amassed a fortune, mostly via investment income that allows him to pay a lower tax rate than many working Americans, and Democrats are eager to turn that into a liability with middle class voters.
The Romney camp is feeling the pinch, which might explain why the Obama campaign and top Democrats are standing by him, if not latching on to his narrative.
“Harry Reid made a statement that is true,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) told the Huffington Post. “Somebody told him. It is a fact.”
The tactics mirror a brand of vicious, no-holds-barred campaigning that Republicans have in recent decades bested Democrats at using.
“It’s a boxer’s instinct,” Reid’s spokesman Jentleson told the New York Times. “You find your opponent’s weak spot, and until he finds a defense, you keep pounding it.”
The fierce pushback from Republicans against Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) appears to only be fueling his quest to tear down Mitt Romney over his finances. The Senate majority leader is telegraphing that he has no interest in letting up.
The latest salvo in the intensifying spat comes from Reid’s chief of staff David Krone, who upped the taunts by calling Republicans “a bunch of cowards” and “henchmen for Romney” in an interview with Politico late Sunday night.
“To turn it around, all their childish rants this weekend about calling Reid a ‘liar’ and all that, it just shows you how scared they are that Harry Reid was telling the truth,” Krone told the paper.
Top Republicans on Sunday flatly accused the Senate majority leader of lying when he claimed Romney didn’t pay taxes for a decade, something he says he learned of from an as-yet-unnamed investor to Bain Capital. Reflecting the frustrations of his party, an incensed Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus called Reid a “dirty liar,” and has since repeated the epithet.
Reid wasn’t fazed. His spokesman Adam Jentleson responded in the afternoon by vouching for the credibility of the source and inviting Romney to disprove the claim by releasing a series of tax returns. Calling him the “most secretive candidate since Richard Nixon,” Jentleson told TPM: “It’s clear Mitt Romney is hiding something, and the only way for him to clear this up is to be straight with the American people and release his tax returns.”
The allegation irritated the conservative Wall Street Journal editorial board, which called it “a smear from the fever swamps that say more about Mr. Reid’s ethics than they do about Mr. Romney’s taxes.” But Reid isn’t on the ballot this year; Romney is. And as the Journal argued, “Mr. Romney’s problem is that he can only disprove the charge by releasing his tax returns.”
For Romney, it’s a lose-lose proposition because doing so comes with its own risk. The Republican nominee has amassed a fortune, mostly via investment income that allows him to pay a lower tax rate than many working Americans, and Democrats are eager to turn that into a liability with middle class voters.
The Romney camp is feeling the pinch, which might explain why the Obama campaign and top Democrats are standing by him, if not latching on to his narrative.
“Harry Reid made a statement that is true,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) told the Huffington Post. “Somebody told him. It is a fact.”
The tactics mirror a brand of vicious, no-holds-barred campaigning that Republicans have in recent decades bested Democrats at using.
“It’s a boxer’s instinct,” Reid’s spokesman Jentleson told the New York Times. “You find your opponent’s weak spot, and until he finds a defense, you keep pounding it.”
The fierce pushback from Republicans against Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) appears to only be fueling his quest to tear down Mitt Romney over his finances. The Senate majority leader is telegraphing that he has no interest in letting up.
The latest salvo in the intensifying spat comes from Reid’s chief of staff David Krone, who upped the taunts by calling Republicans “a bunch of cowards” and “henchmen for Romney” in an interview with Politico late Sunday night.
“To turn it around, all their childish rants this weekend about calling Reid a ‘liar’ and all that, it just shows you how scared they are that Harry Reid was telling the truth,” Krone told the paper.
Top Republicans on Sunday flatly accused the Senate majority leader of lying when he claimed Romney didn’t pay taxes for a decade, something he says he learned of from an as-yet-unnamed investor to Bain Capital. Reflecting the frustrations of his party, an incensed Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus called Reid a “dirty liar,” and has since repeated the epithet.
Reid wasn’t fazed. His spokesman Adam Jentleson responded in the afternoon by vouching for the credibility of the source and inviting Romney to disprove the claim by releasing a series of tax returns. Calling him the “most secretive candidate since Richard Nixon,” Jentleson told TPM: “It’s clear Mitt Romney is hiding something, and the only way for him to clear this up is to be straight with the American people and release his tax returns.”
The allegation irritated the conservative Wall Street Journal editorial board, which called it “a smear from the fever swamps that say more about Mr. Reid’s ethics than they do about Mr. Romney’s taxes.” But Reid isn’t on the ballot this year; Romney is. And as the Journal argued, “Mr. Romney’s problem is that he can only disprove the charge by releasing his tax returns.”
For Romney, it’s a lose-lose proposition because doing so comes with its own risk. The Republican nominee has amassed a fortune, mostly via investment income that allows him to pay a lower tax rate than many working Americans, and Democrats are eager to turn that into a liability with middle class voters.
The Romney camp is feeling the pinch, which might explain why the Obama campaign and top Democrats are standing by him, if not latching on to his narrative.
“Harry Reid made a statement that is true,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) told the Huffington Post. “Somebody told him. It is a fact.”
The tactics mirror a brand of vicious, no-holds-barred campaigning that Republicans have in recent decades bested Democrats at using.
“It’s a boxer’s instinct,” Reid’s spokesman Jentleson told the New York Times. “You find your opponent’s weak spot, and until he finds a defense, you keep pounding it.”
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...rs.php?ref=fpa
"On the sixth day, God created man. On the seventh day, man returned the favor."
http://www.house-mixes.com/profile/djchefron
Administrator
The thing is... tax law in many ways are written to encourage certain types of activity by giving the taxpayer a break on taxes in return for their doing something specific, like buying a house.
In the US, if you take out a mortgage on a house, the interest is a deductible expense that reduces your tax liability. It isn't a 1:1 ratio but it helps significantly.
The offset to this is that it has encouraged home ownership which helps stabilize neighborhoods, helps keep construction industries going, helps families increase their generational wealth, etc. There are many upsides to a population where home ownership is high.
Don't kid yourself, it's also a good way to funnel income into the banking industry but that's neither here nor there.
Another good one in the US is the 401k, that allows you to divert earnings into the stock market without paying taxes on them when they are invested. It encourages money to flow into the stock market, which in turn keeps companies afloat and buoys our economy a good deal.
There are different theories on whether a lower tax rate and no loopholes is better, or if higher tax rates with more loopholes is better. There are ups and downs to both. The typical argument is that the loophole theory favors the rich at the expense of the poor but in many cases, the poor can take advantage of these loopholes as well, if they know about them or have access to information about how to navigate the mess...
which goes back to why Julian's post is so important.
Peace
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Diamond Member
Romney is no idiot and he realizes that voters won't really care about whether what he did was legal or not. They will look at the very small tax rate, look at their own tax rate and it would be very damning to his campaign. I read something about the McCain campaign rejecting him as a possible running mate last time due to what they found in his tax returns during the vetting process. My guess is we will never see them.
http://www.venganza.org/
“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.” Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Nigga please." Ralph Waldo "Petey" Greene
2012 DHP Fantasy Football Champion
Administrator
I tend to agree with this assessment. I think it would be much easier to turn Reid's accusations against the democratic party than it will be to explain away a tax rate that is 1/3rd of the average citizens.
For many people, the argument of democrats demonizing success can be an effective one when coupled with the accusations of socialism. I would expect the Republican conversation to turn towards accusations of inciting class warfare & socialism full tilt shortly (both as a means of confusing this topic & as a way of getting back at the democratic accusations of racism).
Peace
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Administrator
Thanks for the education Julian.
(\_/) "Recognizeth an attention
(O.-)whore when thou doth sees
(___) it, and then ignoreth its ass" - SuzanneT 1:1
"Change happens when the pain of holding on becomes greater than the fear of letting go." — Spencer Johnson
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music.”– Angela Monet
"There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't" -unknown
Diamond Member
You may be right about never seeing rmoney taxes;but its telling that MacCain chose a fool instead of him
"On the sixth day, God created man. On the seventh day, man returned the favor."
http://www.house-mixes.com/profile/djchefron
Diamond Member
Honestly I don't think McCain had any idea what he was getting.
http://www.venganza.org/
“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.” Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Nigga please." Ralph Waldo "Petey" Greene
2012 DHP Fantasy Football Champion
Diamond Member
Spoken Read: "A credible source told me Mitt hasn't paid income taxes in 10 years."
Unspoken Reid: "We have your tax returns. He's a fact to prove it. Ante up or fold."
Romney: "Liar!"
Unspoken Romney: "The electoral college polls show me I'm done. I'm not going to expose my creative tax gymnastics in a lost cause."
"On the sixth day, God created man. On the seventh day, man returned the favor."
http://www.house-mixes.com/profile/djchefron
Diamond Member
I can't imagine a scenario where Rmoney not releasing his returns doesn't dramatically hurt his campaign. He's asking the US people to trust him on our security and our prosperity, yet he won't reciprocate (the same way other presidential candidates have for near 50 years) by disclosing his finances? As to Rmoney's claim that the press and the Obama campaign will try to use the info against him: Rmoney wants us to believe that he can stand eye to eye with China, Putin, and Iran, yet he cowers to the US media because he thinks they'll print mean things?
This isn't passing the smell test. The Dems should not let up on this.
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