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Thread: Polygamy

  1. #1
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    what are your thoughts about it?

    I believe polygamy would work in favor of woman and could have been an essential factor in the resurrection of our communities. I donít think it could be practical in this day in age due to Westernized philosophy.
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    I'm accepting applications. Please send a full-length photo.....JMJ
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    I'm doing the choosing... [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]
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    Ashaki please read "So Long a Letter" by Mariama Ba.

    There are a lot of romantic notions floating about the unity between co-wives and the strength of the family unit in "traditional" polygamous families. I even had them. Been there, done that and would say that even tremendously self aware, articulate, financially secure and happy people cannot make such arrangements last. At best you have a male partner who is emotionally spread in too many directions to maintain his own center and female partners who are constantly being called on to minimize or overstate their needs to facilitate the sharing or get a little attention. At worst is is license for thinly veiled infidelity and manipulative competition. In my lifetime I have seen many different plural relationships and considered joining one...never, ever have I seen fairness and equality between the wives. It is worth noting also that I know a few men and women who were children in plural families and none of them are interested in having polygamous relationships as adults.

    [ February 28, 2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Shalewa ]
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    our community problems are only symptoms of greater and deeper issues. if a group were to use a polygamy model to help resolve the symptoms, we'd end up with new side effects. i wouldn't go so far as to say polygamy would never work well, but the people involved would have to be some special folks with some serious history together.

    as shalewa mentioned the "so long a letter" is a good one to illustrate the polygamy dynamic.
    ::: everything in it's right place :::

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by Shalewa:
    Ashaki please read "So Long a Letter" by Mariama Ba.

    There are a lot of romantic notions floating about the unity between co-wives and the strength of the family unit in "traditional" polygamous families. I even had them. Been there, done that and would say that even tremendously self aware, articulate, financially secure and happy people cannot make such arrangements last. At best you have a male partner who is emotionally spread in too many directions to maintain his own center and female partners who are constantly being called on to minimize or overstate their needs to facilitate the sharing or get a little attention. At worst is is license for thinly veiled infidelity and manipulative competition. In my lifetime I have seen many different plural relationships and considered joining one...never, ever have I seen fairness and equality between the wives. It is worth noting also that I know a few men and women who were children in plural families and none of them are interested in having polygamous relationships as adults.
    Do you think it wouldn't work because of American culture...thanks for your input...
    Why can't I change my displayed name back to Ashaki?

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by lola desire:
    our community problems are only symptoms of greater and deeper issues. if a group were to use a polygamy model to help resolve the symptoms, we'd end up with new side effects. i wouldn't go so far as to say polygamy would never work well, but the people involved would have to be some special folks with some serious history together.

    as shalewa mentioned the "so long a letter" is a good one to illustrate the polygamy dynamic.
    this is interesting because my "friend" is a Yoruba Priest and he believes in it as do I, but don't think it's do-able...
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    Originally posted by Ashaki:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
    our community problems are only symptoms of greater and deeper issues. if a group were to use a polygamy model to help resolve the symptoms, we'd end up with new side effects. i wouldn't go so far as to say polygamy would never work well, but the people involved would have to be some special folks with some serious history together.

    as shalewa mentioned the "so long a letter" is a good one to illustrate the polygamy dynamic.
    this is interesting because my "friend" is a Yoruba Priest and he believes in it as do I, but don't think it's do-able...</font>[/QUOTE]Esp. if one of the wives was white - am I right? This is a scenario that could take place.

    I personally feel to participate in such a relationship is nothing more than open adultry. There was this chinese movie (Raising the Red Latern - Kai will correct me if I am wrong) that spoke to this issue and it points to everything Shalewa pointed to in her post. Besides, my ego is too dman big to be KNOWINGLY sharing you with another woman if we are suppossed to be in a COMMITTED relationship (I am not talking dating).
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    Originally posted by Leslie:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lola desire:
    our community problems are only symptoms of greater and deeper issues. if a group were to use a polygamy model to help resolve the symptoms, we'd end up with new side effects. i wouldn't go so far as to say polygamy would never work well, but the people involved would have to be some special folks with some serious history together.

    as shalewa mentioned the "so long a letter" is a good one to illustrate the polygamy dynamic.
    this is interesting because my "friend" is a Yoruba Priest and he believes in it as do I, but don't think it's do-able...</font>[/QUOTE]Esp. if one of the wives was white - am I right? This is a scenario that could take place.

    I personally feel to participate in such a relationship is nothing more than open adultry. There was this chinese movie (Raising the Red Latern - Kai will correct me if I am wrong) that spoke to this issue and it points to everything Shalewa pointed to in her post. Besides, my ego is too dman big to be KNOWINGLY sharing you with another woman if we are suppossed to be in a COMMITTED relationship (I am not talking dating).
    </font>[/QUOTE]I love the movie Raise the Red Latern..one of my favorite foreign films...

    this is the problem, that is their culture and their religion...Western Europeans decided that it was wrong...so that makes it wrong...I don't believe that it can be done and serve it's purpose of creating a strong, loving supportive community, in this society. The purpose in this type of arrangement is not about "I" but "We" correct me if I'm wrong...
    Why can't I change my displayed name back to Ashaki?

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    Originally posted by Ashaki:
    Do you think it wouldn't work because of American culture...thanks for your input...
    I don't think that many women in Africa find that it is working for them. Maraima Ba is a Senegalese writer, who writes from that experience. I have sister friends who grew up in polygamous households in the US, Nigeria and in Senegal the most vehemently anti-polygamy sister in the bunch is the Nigerian and yes her father was a Priest/Babalorisha. The drama that surrounded his last days and death and the various wives doing "work" on/against each other was truly ridiculous. Another brother friend from Guinea who is Muslim experienced similar familial drama upon his father's death, with his father's other wives turning on his mother because they viewed her as having been the favored wife. Polygamy is a whole lot less rosy than folks make it out to be.
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    I wish Fela Kuti was still alive. We could ask him how it all was when he married his whole quoir of ladies.

    [img]smile.gif[/img]

    luke

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    Originally posted by Ashaki:
    [ The purpose in this type of arrangement is not about "I" but "We" correct me if I'm wrong...[/QB]
    True but the "we" can't be happy if one of the "I's" is not. Perhaps we have different views of how a relationship should work, and that's cool. In my eyes, me sharing a man with another woman does not seem to be productive in the society I live in. Can a man support two or more women and numerous children so that all are living in a comfortable manner? Are all the wives and children going to get quality time with the father (esp. if all the wives/children do not occupy the same domicile). We have evolved as a society so its not a matter of survivial of the species as a means for this to go down - in my eyes it's not right and to participate in it would be selling myself short but also selling the man short by me believing he is incapable of being satisfied with being in a committed relationship with one woman - I believe we are all better than that....
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    Originally posted by Leslie:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ashaki:
    [ The purpose in this type of arrangement is not about "I" but "We" correct me if I'm wrong...
    True but the "we" can't be happy if one of the "I's" is not. Perhaps we have different views of how a relationship should work, and that's cool. In my eyes, me sharing a man with another woman does not seem to be productive in the society I live in. Can a man support two or more women and numerous children so that all are living in a comfortable manner? Are all the wives and children going to get quality time with the father (esp. if all the wives/children do not occupy the same domicile). We have evolved as a society so its not a matter of survivial of the species as a means for this to go down - in my eyes it's not right and to participate in it would be selling myself short but also selling the man short by me believing he is incapable of being satisfied with being in a committed relationship with one woman - I believe we are all better than that....[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for your responses...I don't see anything wrong with it, now it being able to work to it's full intended capacity is a different story...

    Thanks Shalewa...
    Why can't I change my displayed name back to Ashaki?

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    as i eluded to before, i think we should be concerned with the root causes of our community's family problems. bandaid treatments could cause other unwanted side effects.

    (ashaki - the basement is not an exclusive spot, just show up and know that it's literally and figuratively underground)
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    Originally posted by Shalewa:
    Ashaki please read "So Long a Letter" by Mariama Ba.
    I've read that. Good book, good writer.

    [ February 28, 2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: 6 23 ]
    And now

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    Originally posted by doyoulove:
    I wish Fela Kuti was still alive. We could ask him how it all was when he married his whole quoir of ladies.

    [img]smile.gif[/img]

    luke
    .....and divorced them a short while later.
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  17. #17
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    and so ladies, what are your thoughts on open marriages? (for both partners). Do you think that works? What are the parameters that would or would not make it work?

  18. #18
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    We sometimes forget that these polygamous marriages in Africa exist within the context of Westernization. Don't forget that Africa has undergone colonialism.You have some African folks celebrating African traditions and at the same time praying to blue eyed white Jesus....

    Polygamy as practiced in Ancient times will not work in this modernized cruel society.

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    Are you talking about the same kind of societies like the one's in Nigeria that still practice ceremonial infanticide as well?

    I was just reading an article about a Nigerian boy that was found washed up in the river Thames in London, he had been sacrificed, set on fire and then thrown in the river..

    If this is the true way of Yoruba then this is some f#cked up shit, killing 5 year old kids is not very religious if you ask me.. :(

    A young boy whose mutilated torso was discovered floating in the River Thames last September was the victim of a gruesome West African 'religious' sacrifice intended to bring good luck, and was trafficked into the country expressly for the killing.
    Genetic tests on the boy - who was found with his head and limbs removed and wearing only a pair of orange shorts - point to a West African origin, probably Nigeria or a nearby country such as Togo or Benin.

    Further analysis of stomach contents and bone chemistry show the child, whom police have named Adam, could not have been brought up in London. Detectives are now working on the horrifying theory that he was bought as a child slave in West Africa and smuggled to Britain solely to be killed.

    Experts on African religion consulted by Scotland Yard believe Adam may have been sacrificed to one of the 400 'Orisha' or ancestor gods of the Yoruba people, Nigeria's second-largest ethnic group. Oshun, a Yoruba river goddess is associated with orange, the colour of the shorts, which were placed on Adam's body 24 hours after he was killed as a bizarre addition to the ritual. The body was then stored for a further 24 hours before being offered to the Thames.

    The cultural clues fit neatly with the forensics as the Yoruba are found in Benin, Togo and Ghana as well as Nigeria. Thousands of Yoruba slaves were also taken to the Caribbean, where elements of their religion formed the basis of voodoo rituals.

    A close examination of the cuts where the head and limbs were sliced from the body shows that they were carried out by an expert using extremely sharp knives specially prepared for the purpose. In a horrific operation reminiscent of animal sacrifice, the flesh around the limbs and neck was first cut down to the bones, which were then slashed with a single blow from an implement much like a butcher's meat cleaver. Adam would have been stretched out horizontally or upside down during the sacrifice and kept in position while the blood was drained from the body.

    Officers working on the case believe that the level of expertise involved could show the perpetrators imported a magician or priest to carry out the ritual. They also believe the amputated body parts will have been kept as powerful magical trophies.

    Richard Hoskins, a lecturer in the Study of Religions at Bath Spa University, who has studied ritual killings across Africa, said: 'This looks like a deviant variety of a West African religion. Someone would have done it to gain power. But the vast majority of Africans would find this abhorrent.'

    In an unprecedented missing-person investigation, the police have even tracked down the origins of the orange shorts, which were made exclusively in China for German Woolworth stores. Police believe Adam may have arrived in England from Germany, a common route for people traffickers.

    Police are now awaiting final results of the forensic tests, which should identify a specific country or ethnic group, before moving their investigation to Africa. Scotland Yard officers working on the case then plan to launch appeals to the parents of missing children in Adam's country of origin..

    Commander Andy Baker of the Metropolitan Police, who is heading the investigation said: 'All we have is the trunk of a little boy and a very small pair of shorts. But when the work on the forensics identifies his home, we will go to that country and make direct contact with the government involved.'

    Investigators have now discounted the theory that Adam was the victim of a so-called muti killing, where body parts are taken to be used in medicine. It is a practice widespread in areas of South Africa, and detectives travelled to Johannesburg to speak to experts. But all the evidence is now pointing to West Africa as holding the answers to the riddle of Adam's slaughter. It now seems clear it was not body parts his killers were after.

    Expert forensic analysis of mitochondrial DNA - the first time such a test has been used in a criminal investigation - shows that Adam was almost certainly West African. Other gruesome evidence is the fact that Adam's genitals were left on his body. In muti murders the genitals are seen as powerful medicine; not so in West Africa where the 'luck' of an individual is believed to lie in the blood. Adam's blood was drained from his body after he was killed, but his genitals were undamaged. A further clue lies in the fact that Adam, who was between four and seven years old, was also circumcised. In southern Africa circumcision happens as a passage to adulthood. In West Africa it occurs shortly after birth.

    The case has prompted a continent-wide alert that African ritual killings have been imported to Europe. Last Monday an international conference was held in the Dutch city of The Hague to discuss the phenomenon, and several countries' police forces are investigating deaths involving mutilations. Even Police believe that rich West Africans imported Adam from West Africa, probably using a specialist witch doctor for the task. The witch doctor would have procured the boy in West Africa, perhaps paying a fee to his family, a fee who may have expected him to be put to work abroad. He would then have been 'trafficked' to Europe.

    Adam was well-treated before he was killed.. Traces of a common over-the-counter cough medicine were found in his stomach, indicating someone wanted him in good health for the day of his execution.

    Could it happen again? Whatever business Adam's killers wanted to bless has already started. It is unlikely his killers will strike again. 'If another one happens then it is likely to be a different group of people involved. The ones who killed Adam are already satisfied with what they have done,' said Dr Hendrik Scholtz, an expert at South Africa's University of the Witwatersrand.

    Temi Olusanya, the Nigerian vice-chair of the African Caribbean Development Association said Adam's murder had deeply shocked the West African community. 'This is a crime that cannot be tolerated in African religions. Murder is murder and we should work together to find the people who did this,' he said
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  20. #20
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    the institution of marriage was started (by man) as a way of gaining ownership of land/property.

    very romantic.

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    Originally posted by Ashaki:
    what are your thoughts about it?

    I believe polygamy would work in favor of woman and could have been an essential factor in the resurrection of our communities. I donít think it could be practical in this day in age due to Westernized philosophy.
    Whatís next? Vales? Trade your wife for a camel or two?

    In our society (western one) it is unacceptable and is plain adultery. Polygamy is a primitive way of thinking that takes the individuality out of people and its place is in the history books.

    We are in the year 2003 not the year 600....

    Anyway can you imagine the alimony payments for 4-divorced wifes (at a time)? [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Move on, the future is freedom of the individual (in this case women) not the slavery of women.
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  22. #22

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    this pretty sums it up for me......

    if i'm not mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong, aren't the only living things on this planet that are monagamous and mate for life are Macaws?...F'in parrots!!!

    things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmm
    "you bust your ass to make all the money you can...thinking it solves shit...and then you realize..when and if you get there at all...you got more problems and you missed out on the one thing you can't buy or get back...your life! Spend time with friends and family...You can be broke in other ways too!...."

  23. #23

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    If women had the advantage with Polygamy it would have been over centuries ago. Don't care where it originated from, it's a man thing to manipulate to have the cake and eat it too.

    Anyone that even considers it don't have it all. Men don't have enough attention for one damn woman, not to mention 2 or more.
    "I am an innovator, a visionary and set apart from the rest! I am an Eagle and Eagles don't travel in groups! A.H. Hughes

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    my grandfather took on 2 additional wives in the name of islam and tried to manage a plural marriage - personally i dont see any positive results from it and think that there is no reason for it to happen in the 21st century at all. he has now passed on, but has left many children behind, most of them who probably would have been much more successful in life if they hadnt had to share their one fathers love, attention and resources with 19+ other kids. i cant really speak on the subject of the relationship of the three wives with one another and my grandfather (i think they were all in separate homes), but given the fact that my grandmother (his first wife) was the only one that stuck around while he was imprisoned for 7 years as a political prisoner, i think this says a lot about how much the other two wives actually valued him as a husband/lover/human, as opposed just a provider and source of money/food.

    i can see how the idea of polygamy could have developed in the past, in much different circumstances, and could even have beeen considered a "positive" arrangement to ensure that all women were cared for, but, like other concepts that had value in the past (say for example, the feudal system), are fundamentally flawed simply because they are based on philosophies of life that are flawed, and therefore have no validity in present day life.

    dont you guys ever see those specials on the mormons in utah? men taking on multiple wives, inbreeding and 15 year old brides, not to mention the strain that all these kids from the plural marriages are having on the welfare system in utah since the wives cant officially say they are married and are forced to go to the gvt for money?

    i dont know, but no matter which culture it is, i dont really see any positive effects of plural marriages, and as a woman i find it kind of insulting and gross. plural marriages just stink of insinuations that women are just goods, to be collected and traded like cattle or land, and arent capable of taking care of themselves;--- so make sure to marry three and do good by god because we all know that without a husband, a woman will just fall into ill repute and eventually die in the gutter because its not like they could ever provide for themselves!!
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    Originally posted by dj paradigm:
    We sometimes forget that these polygamous marriages in Africa exist within the context of Westernization. Don't forget that Africa has undergone colonialism.You have some African folks celebrating African traditions and at the same time praying to blue eyed white Jesus....

    Polygamy as practiced in Ancient times will not work in this modernized cruel society.
    Do you have any photos of the blue-eyed white Jesus you referred to?? I thought he had brown eyes.....JMJ
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