R Kelly’s new album

[Brut by Faberge]

shalewa: that last post was brilliant, beautiful, and the most thought-provoking well-considered message on this thread BY FAR! not suckin up ;) just showing some gratitude...

[ngeso]

since hearing about the video last year i have not touched an R.Kelly record. that stuff remains shelved, i do not listen to it in private and i do not play R.Kelly records out. i am also not going to buy any records or other product by R.Kelly until he clears his name. whether he is a great composer and artist remains irrelevant to me at the moment - fact is that i feel uncomfortable with his sh*t right now.

until further notice i am not a customer.

[Wild i]

I am not as eloquent as Sister Shalewa, so let me just say this: All ya'll who are saying (all guys, I noticed) "guilty until proven innocent (I don't know what more proof you need than video tape THAT HE MADE), it's the young girls fault for being a tart, kid in a candy store, it's a natural reaction, etc., I better never find none of ya'll around my underaged kids. I don't want you going "natural" on them, or blaming them for your uncontrolled lust, or trying to take their candy.

[Koffy Brown]

Yawl are the bomb...rather or not we agree, you all bring some very enlightening points of view..

peace love and blessings...

it's about building and just as we communicated on this topic, we should be doing the same in the communities and within the confinements of our homes...

[HML]

Originally posted by Shalewa:
"Please explain to me what sexual predator is if not a person "who has a dangerous and illegal penchant for very young women"?"

IMO, a sexual predator is a person who aggressively seeks out, targets, then lures his victim (his prey) into an unwarranted, unwilling, illicit, lude, or indecent sexual act... What's your definition and how does R Kelly's actions fit into it?


"Try this scenario on for size. A girl is walking home from soccer practice on sunny day in gym clothes. She is athletic, healthy, and voluptuous. Since she has been working out she is a bit flushed, hey maybe even glowing. Her sweatshirt is tied around her waist emphasizing both its slimness and the curve of her hips. Her t-shirt is a bit clingy from the workout but certainly not low cut. It is a beautiful afternoon, birds are singing and the girl is lost in her thoughts as she walks home. Life is good she thinks when from a passing car she hears "DAYUM!!!!!! I would hit that shit in a minute." followed by assorted hissing sounds. She is a bit shaken and unwraps her sweatshirt from waist pulls it on and pulls the hood up over her head drawing the cord as tightly as she can leaving just her eyes visible (remarkably like a burqa in that regard) and finshes her walk counting sidewalk cracks. She fights tears because even though they've been happening for a couple of years she's still not used to the verbal assaults or sure what it is she does that provokes them. She is 13. She was me. So yeah I had great legs and big breasts and wore shorts and t-shirts like other 13 year old girls but no I was not asking for it."

It's unfortunate that you had to deal with that. Those guys were disrespectful, insensitive and downright rude.

"Remember the person who until a little while ago was held up as America's most famous virgin and poster-girl for abstinance dresses pretty much like the "tart" in your example as do the millions of little girls and young teens in her thrall. I had a 3 year old student show up dressed like Britney Spears for Halloween last year and I dare you to find a pair of jeans (or any other pants) in a girls or juniors department that aren't hip-huggers."

I disagree! I've bought plenty of pants/jeans for my daughters that weren't falling off their hips. Regular waistline clothes are still available... I've never looked at Britney Spears as a role model. She does whatever it takes to sell records and herself. Scruples and the affect on her young fanbase notwithstanding...

"I gotta ask you why it is ok to call a teenager who is dressed in the fashion of the day a "tart" and refer to her as "something"? It reads as deeply anti-girl as does your whole post which bends over backwards to justify bad behavior by adults."

Whoa there! "Anti-girl"?!? HUH? That's a very broad and serious accusation. Do you really have enough info to make such a charge? I don't think my post was misogynistic in any way!!! And I also stated more than once in my post that R Kelly's behavior was inexcusable. In no way am I condoning his, or anyone else's sexual deviancy! I'm examining the causes, not making excuses!! And please Shalewa, are you telling me that there's no such thing as a precocious child?!? Get REAL!!! My own daughter has told me stories of how other girls would throw themselves at her boyfriend because they knew that him and my daughter were not sexually active... What do you call that?!? I call it grown, fast and hussie-like behavior! ALL young girls are not INNOCENT and VICTIMIZED as you would have us believe!!

"Name calling and demonizing is certainly the way to do this."

Who's name-calling and demonizing?

"And what will you teach your sons?"

I'm not exactly sure, I have no sons... But, I surmise that, I would teach them to respect any woman as they would their sister or their mother. Women are not sexual conquests, they are our fellow human beings. Keep it in your pants!

"Check it out, the abstinence verse in Nas' "I Can" tells girls that they need to wait until their wedding night for their "kings" to make them into "queens". A perhaps unintended consequence of the verse and other abstinence until marriage messages is that they set girls up to be particularly receptive to the "security" and "seriousness" that attaches to relationships with adult men. These messages can also reinforce the madonna-whore concept and can have girls who have become sexually active feeling like they are on the wrong side of that line."

I'm not sure where you're taking me with that whole line... I'm teaching my kids that premarital sex is wrong. PERIOD!!! Call me old-fashioned and antiquated if you will. These new fangled teachings have got our kids so confused they don't know which way to turn!!! I'm not teaching my child that its okay to go out and screw if, 1) You're on birth control. 2) The guy uses a condom. 3) You really love the guy and feel that he loves you back. That is irresponsible and I'd be remiss in my role as a parent if I taught them that!!! So many things can go wrong when kids have sex too early!

"I think deep self examination is in order for many of us...

Especially those of us who would call underaged girls "fast little hussies" without any qualms..."

What world are you living in that does not have young girls that are "advanced"? Stop excusing and rationalizing this inappropriate behavior. Stop pretending that it does not exist!

Respectfully,
HML

[Wild i]

Originally posted by Wild i:
I am not as eloquent as Sister Shalewa, so let me just say this: All ya'll who are saying (all guys, I noticed) "guilty until proven innocent (I don't know what more proof you need than video tape THAT HE MADE), it's the young girls fault for being a tart, kid in a candy store, it's a natural reaction, etc., I better never find none of ya'll around my underaged kids. I don't want you going "natural" on them, or blaming them for your uncontrolled lust, or trying to take their candy.

Sorry, that's "innocent until proven guilty."

[Wild i]

Originally posted by HML:
Originally posted by Shalewa:
"Please explain to me what sexual predator is if not a person "who has a dangerous and illegal penchant for very young women"?"

IMO, a sexual predator is a person who aggressively seeks out, targets, then lures his victim (his prey) into an unwarranted, unwilling, illicit, lude, or indecent sexual act... What's your definition and how does R Kelly's actions fit into it?


"Try this scenario on for size. A girl is walking home from soccer practice on sunny day in gym clothes. She is athletic, healthy, and voluptuous. Since she has been working out she is a bit flushed, hey maybe even glowing. Her sweatshirt is tied around her waist emphasizing both its slimness and the curve of her hips. Her t-shirt is a bit clingy from the workout but certainly not low cut. It is a beautiful afternoon, birds are singing and the girl is lost in her thoughts as she walks home. Life is good she thinks when from a passing car she hears "DAYUM!!!!!! I would hit that shit in a minute." followed by assorted hissing sounds. She is a bit shaken and unwraps her sweatshirt from waist pulls it on and pulls the hood up over her head drawing the cord as tightly as she can leaving just her eyes visible (remarkably like a burqa in that regard) and finshes her walk counting sidewalk cracks. She fights tears because even though they've been happening for a couple of years she's still not used to the verbal assaults or sure what it is she does that provokes them. She is 13. She was me. So yeah I had great legs and big breasts and wore shorts and t-shirts like other 13 year old girls but no I was not asking for it."

It's unfortunate that you had to deal with that. Those guys were disrespectful, insensitive and downright rude.

"Remember the person who until a little while ago was held up as America's most famous virgin and poster-girl for abstinance dresses pretty much like the "tart" in your example as do the millions of little girls and young teens in her thrall. I had a 3 year old student show up dressed like Britney Spears for Halloween last year and I dare you to find a pair of jeans (or any other pants) in a girls or juniors department that aren't hip-huggers."

I disagree! I've bought plenty of pants/jeans for my daughters that weren't falling off their hips. Regular waistline clothes are still available... I've never looked at Britney Spears as a role model. She does whatever it takes to sell records and herself. Scruples and the affect on her young fanbase notwithstanding...

"I gotta ask you why it is ok to call a teenager who is dressed in the fashion of the day a "tart" and refer to her as "something"? It reads as deeply anti-girl as does your whole post which bends over backwards to justify bad behavior by adults."

Whoa there! "Anti-girl"?!? HUH? That's a very broad and serious accusation. Do you really have enough info to make such a charge? I don't think my post was misogynistic in any way!!! And I also stated more than once in my post that R Kelly's behavior was inexcusable. In no way am I condoning his, or anyone else's sexual deviancy! I'm examining the causes, not making excuses!! And please Shalewa, are you telling me that there's no such thing as a precocious child?!? Get REAL!!! My own daughter has told me stories of how other girls would throw themselves at her boyfriend because they knew that him and my daughter were not sexually active... What do you call that?!? I call it grown, fast and hussie-like behavior! ALL young girls are not INNOCENT and VICTIMIZED as you would have us believe!!

"Name calling and demonizing is certainly the way to do this."

Who's name-calling and demonizing?

"And what will you teach your sons?"

I'm not exactly sure, I have no sons... But, I surmise that, I would teach them to respect any woman as they would their sister or their mother. Women are not sexual conquests, they are our fellow human beings. Keep it in your pants!

"Check it out, the abstinence verse in Nas' "I Can" tells girls that they need to wait until their wedding night for their "kings" to make them into "queens". A perhaps unintended consequence of the verse and other abstinence until marriage messages is that they set girls up to be particularly receptive to the "security" and "seriousness" that attaches to relationships with adult men. These messages can also reinforce the madonna-whore concept and can have girls who have become sexually active feeling like they are on the wrong side of that line."

I'm not sure where you're taking me with that whole line... I'm teaching my kids that premarital sex is wrong. PERIOD!!! Call me old-fashioned and antiquated if you will. These new fangled teachings have got our kids so confused they don't know which way to turn!!! I'm not teaching my child that its okay to go out and screw if, 1) You're on birth control. 2) The guy uses a condom. 3) You really love the guy and feel that he loves you back. That is irresponsible and I'd be remiss in my role as a parent if I taught them that!!! So many things can go wrong when kids have sex too early!

"I think deep self examination is in order for many of us...

Especially those of us who would call underaged girls "fast little hussies" without any qualms..."

What world are you living in that does not have young girls that are "advanced"? Stop excusing and rationalizing this inappropriate behavior. Stop pretending that it does not exist!

Respectfully,
HML

HML, I believe what the sister is trying to make you realize is that you are blaming the victim. Let's take it out of the heated realm of sex for a second and look at it dispassionately.

If your 7-year-old wants ice cream and cake for breakfast, would you let him or her have it? Of course not, because you're the adult and you know better. If they see you drinking a beer, which you do only occasionally, and they want a beer too, would you give it to them? Of course not because you're the adult and you know better. If you catch them sneaking a beer with their friends in the garage, are you going to issue punishment? Of course you are because you're the adult and you know they need guidance. What if the man down the street calls them into his house and offers them a beer? Are you going to exact punishment for the child and the adult or just the child? What if you child were 12 or 13, would you still punish him or her? Just because a child wants something or emulates adult behaviors doesn't mean they're "fast" or "hussies." (That's where the name-calling comes in, by the way.) Children start imitating adults almost from the time they are born. If the adults don't set limits, they become "fast" if there are adults around who take advantage, the children (girls) are considered "loose." The fact of the matter is, they're still victims, both of the inadequate parenting and of the adults who take advantage of that.

There are definite limits to what a society can allow and still survive as a society. If the children are not protect, society will crumble for they are our future. People who take advantage of children should, in my humble opinion, be ostracized and snubbed at the very least, punished at the very best.

[formerly known as kenspank]

i've read the last couple of pages of posts. men have been described as sexual predators. women have been described as sexual victims.

several have shown disgust for older men who show sexual interest in young women. fine. but millions of young women show sexual interest in older men every day. teenage girls have posters of 20 something male superstars in their bedrooms everywhere. they worship them. they probably masturbate to them. it seems that our culture's distaste for lust is not based in reality. because we fail to acknowledge it and embrace it, it rears its ugly head in various forms of sexual deviancy based in fear, hatred, power, and control.

in the absence of clear signs of estrus, men need to gather information from women's bodies. men need a waist to hip ratio to determine if the woman is best suited for child bearing. men need to examine the height of a woman's breasts on her chest. if they are high, then the woman is in her child bearing years. if they are low, then the woman is past her child bearing years. if a woman bends over and displays her blood engorged genitalia, then she is sexual reciptive. if she doesn't, then she isn't.

a woman needs to look at a man's general height and build. she needs to look at him and determine from his eye contact and general demeanor how confident he is about himself and his social status. she also needs to look at his genitalia (primates do this) to determine information about the sex of the children they could have together.

in a society where people didn't wear so many clothes, it would be this simple. but in this society, people wear clothes, so determining sexual receptivity and other reproductive information is a bit more elusive.

women wear lip gloss to elude to well lubricated genitalia. they wear blush to simulate elevated blood pressure and flushness. women wear bras that lie about the position of their breasts. they wear high-heeled shoes that better exentuate the buttocks. they wear form fitting clothing to flatter their waist-to-hip ratio. they wear eye make up, arch their eyebrows, and wear false eyelashes to better communicate their intentions with their eyes.

i say this to say that women are not victims. women should not think of themselves as victims. they are not damsels in distress that need to be saved by some mythical superhero or prince charming.

the following is our body of knowledge about men and women:

boys: bad;
(snips and snails and puppy dog tails)
girls: good
(sugar and spice and everything nice)

"Boys will be boys" "She's such a little angel" "He's such a little terror" "She's such a proper young lady"

little boys are naughty and rambunctious, competitive and misbehave; little girls are pleasant and nice, polite, cooperative and well-mannered

the phrase "little gentleman" carrying the implication that the boy is not behaving naturally, i.e. according to his true nature; either he's been trained/reined in, is putting up an act, or is a sissy or a momma's boy

none of those things being good; in fact, bad boy = good (or at least normal)

likewise, a "bad girl" has gone astray, and does not behave after her true nature; bad girl = bad

sex is naughty

"Men's magazines" (the whole genre belonging to men)

"Exploitation of women"

"Wifely duty"

"All pentration is rape"

we live our lives perpetuating these roles. believing in these roles. drop the roles. own your own desires. own your self. stop living out these lies that create co-dependency in our relationships.

[img]graemlins/cussing.gif[/img]

have a pleasant day. [img]graemlins/remybussi.gif[/img]

[Shalewa]

Originally posted by HML:
Originally posted by Shalewa:
"Please explain to me what sexual predator is if not a person "who has a dangerous and illegal penchant for very young women"?"

IMO, a sexual predator is a person who aggressively eesks out, targets, then lures his victim (his prey) into an unwarranted, unwilling, illicit, lude, or indecent sexual act... What's your definition and how does R Kelly's actions fit into it?


"Try this scenario on for size. A girl is walking home from soccer practice on sunny day in gym clothes. She is athletic, healthy, and voluptuous. Since she has been working out she is a bit flushed, hey maybe even glowing. Her sweatshirt is tied around her waist emphasizing both its slimness and the curve of her hips. Her t-shirt is a bit clingy from the workout but certainly not low cut. It is a beautiful afternoon, birds are singing and the girl is lost in her thoughts as she walks home. Life is good she thinks when from a passing car she hears "DAYUM!!!!!! I would hit that shit in a minute." followed by assorted hissing sounds. She is a bit shaken and unwraps her sweatshirt from waist pulls it on and pulls the hood up over her head drawing the cord as tightly as she can leaving just her eyes visible (remarkably like a burqa in that regard) and finshes her walk counting sidewalk cracks. She fights tears because even though they've been happening for a couple of years she's still not used to the verbal assaults or sure what it is she does that provokes them. She is 13. She was me. So yeah I had great legs and big breasts and wore shorts and t-shirts like other 13 year old girls but no I was not asking for it."

It's unfortunate that you had to deal with that. Those guys were disrespectful, insensitive and downright rude.

"Remember the person who until a little while ago was held up as America's most famous virgin and poster-girl for abstinance dresses pretty much like the "tart" in your example as do the millions of little girls and young teens in her thrall. I had a 3 year old student show up dressed like Britney Spears for Halloween last year and I dare you to find a pair of jeans (or any other pants) in a girls or juniors department that aren't hip-huggers."

I disagree! I've bought plenty of pants/jeans for my daughters that weren't falling off their hips. Regular waistline clothes are still available... I've never looked at Britney Spears as a role model. She does whatever it takes to sell records and herself. Scruples and the affect on her young fanbase notwithstanding...

"I gotta ask you why it is ok to call a teenager who is dressed in the fashion of the day a "tart" and refer to her as "something"? It reads as deeply anti-girl as does your whole post which bends over backwards to justify bad behavior by adults."

Whoa there! "Anti-girl"?!? HUH? That's a very broad and serious accusation. Do you really have enough info to make such a charge? I don't think my post was misogynistic in any way!!! And I also stated more than once in my post that R Kelly's behavior was inexcusable. In no way am I condoning his, or anyone else's sexual deviancy! I'm examining the causes, not making excuses!! And please Shalewa, are you telling me that there's no such thing as a precocious child?!? Get REAL!!! My own daughter has told me stories of how other girls would throw themselves at her boyfriend because they knew that him and my daughter were not sexually active... What do you call that?!? I call it grown, fast and hussie-like behavior! ALL young girls are not INNOCENT and VICTIMIZED as you would have us believe!!

"Name calling and demonizing is certainly the way to do this."

Who's name-calling and demonizing?

"And what will you teach your sons?"

I'm not exactly sure, I have no sons... But, I surmise that, I would teach them to respect any woman as they would their sister or their mother. Women are not sexual conquests, they are our fellow human beings. Keep it in your pants!

"Check it out, the abstinence verse in Nas' "I Can" tells girls that they need to wait until their wedding night for their "kings" to make them into "queens". A perhaps unintended consequence of the verse and other abstinence until marriage messages is that they set girls up to be particularly receptive to the "security" and "seriousness" that attaches to relationships with adult men. These messages can also reinforce the madonna-whore concept and can have girls who have become sexually active feeling like they are on the wrong side of that line."

I'm not sure where you're taking me with that whole line... I'm teaching my kids that premarital sex is wrong. PERIOD!!! Call me old-fashioned and antiquated if you will. These new fangled teachings have got our kids so confused they don't know which way to turn!!! I'm not teaching my child that its okay to go out and screw if, 1) You're on birth control. 2) The guy uses a condom. 3) You really love the guy and feel that he loves you back. That is irresponsible and I'd be remiss in my role as a parent if I taught them that!!! So many things can go wrong when kids have sex too early!

"I think deep self examination is in order for many of us...

Especially those of us who would call underaged girls "fast little hussies" without any qualms..."

What world are you living in that does not have young girls that are "advanced"? Stop excusing and rationalizing this inappropriate behavior. Stop pretending that it does not exist!

Respectfully,
HML

I will probably not get a chance to respond point by point to this due to time limitations, do not mistake that for any part of a concession. I will say that my understanding of Kelly's pattern fits pretty neatly into your definition of sexual predator

seeks out, targets, then lures his victim (his prey) into an unwarranted, unwilling, illicit, lude[sic], or indecent sexual act...

It has been widely reported that he cruised high schools for girls who were aspiring singers or in the case of the girl in the video preyed on a girl who was the relative of a colleague /lover. The girls have been descibed as being notably plain or otherwise particularly vulnerable to feeling like his attentions marked them as "special" and who were no doubt "willing" to please a powerful adult like most kids. I am hard pressed to say that sexual contact between a minor and an adult is ever warranted,or that the acts alledgedly depicted in the video could be described as anything but lewd. The contact was by definition illicit because the girls were underaged.

Glad you were able to find jeans for your daughters that covered them to your satisfaction. I know that the adult women of DHP have discussed on several ocassions our difficulty in doing the same.

I really have to run now HML but I challenge you to think closely about the way you are calling girls names (tarts, hussies) and demonizing them for acting out in the way that not just the media but more than likely their real world observations and experiences have taught them gets male attention.

I hope for the sake of all involved that your daughters are able to follow your abstinence teaching because I fear you would be hard pressed to embrace them if they aren't. I hope also that they do not feel hurried into marriage or locked in relationships that are not fulfilling to them by a need to followow your rules.

You are by the way making excuses fo R.Kelly and it is frankly appalling.

[ngeso]

Originally posted by kenspank:
in the absence of clear signs of estrus, men need to gather information from women's bodies. men need a waist to hip ratio to determine if the woman is best suited for child bearing. men need to examine the height of a woman's breasts on her chest. if they are high, then the woman is in her child bearing years. if they are low, then the woman is past her child bearing years. if a woman bends over and displays her blood engorged genitalia, then she is sexual reciptive. if she doesn't, then she isn't.
.....

in a society where people didn't wear so many clothes, it would be this simple. but in this society, people wear clothes, so determining sexual receptivity and other reproductive information is a bit more elusive.

ken, this is rubbish! what you're putting up is outrageous! you're now placing men on one level with baboons (and what's worse - you're feeding back-backlashers with pseudo-biological ammo).

i'm not even contesting your notion that women overemphasize their victim-status - i hate that as well! but the only way to actually get women to stop shouting "victim" is to prove to them that men can EVOLVE

i don't give a shit whether women are this that or the other, and how high or how low their pants fit, and whether they're hussies at 16, 15, 11 or 7 - i DO give a shit about R Kelly making men look WEAK!

peace. ngeso.

[ March 05, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: ngeso ]

[Koffy Brown]

Bold Soul made some very good points ...

[Wild i]

This is not about women claiming victimhood. This is about the victimization of a CHILD. Many of you may remember I had similar comments about Michael Jackson and his behavior with young boys. There were no women in the R. Kelly video, therefore no woman could have given consent. There is a legal age for adulthood and there is a reason why that age has been pushed up over the years. Juliette was 15, but I'll be damned if I would allow my 15 year old to marry in this day and age.

[ngeso]

Originally posted by Wild i:
There were no women in the R. Kelly video, therefore no woman could have given consent. There is a legal age for adulthood...

...and a 30+ year-old male needs to acknowledge this fact, full stop. no excuses.

[formerly known as kenspank]

thanks.

i think all life forms are equal. and i don't equate humans with baboons. i equate them with the bobonos. they are primates that resolve their differences with sex not violence. perhaps we could learn something from them.

with weapons of mass destruction we fail to recognize that there are living creatures on this planet that are strong than us and smarter than us. we don't revere them like the indigenous americans revere the bear or the eagle. we are delusional about life. poor us.

we crucify r. kelly like we crucify the female "slut". these are icons that live sexually against the status quo. with people like them around, we can all point at them make them evil. that way, we don't have to examine the evil within us. as long as someone else has a "problem", we never have to look at ourselves.

men don't have anything to prove to women. women don't have anything to prove to men. men don't have to be apologetic looking at women as sexual objects and women don't have to be apologetic about looking at men as cash stations. we all should stop handing over our personal power to ther people. we should all stop living vicariously through celebrities. we should all stop this negative business of gossip. and we should strive to end our own personal suffering.

[Wild i]

Originally posted by kenspank:
[QB]the female "slut". [QB]

This pretty much explains your entire premise right here.

[ March 05, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Wild i ]

[ngeso]

ken, when men prove things to themselves (and to other men), the issue of having to prove things to women will not arise.

i, as a man, consider a child, a minor, as part of myself. i do not think of a child in (sexual) gender terms, nor do i consider a child to be solely a female responsibility. if i had children - daughters or sons, doesn't matter - my views and expectations would not differ from what Wild I or Shalewa are saying.

peace. ngeso.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Shalewa I loved your post. R Kelly need alot of help. The young women that he had violated need counseling and assurance that they have more to offer than their body.

I really don't understand why is that as a community we are willing to support R. Kelly who has committed such crimes and want to ridicule Jesse Jackson for having an affair with a grown woman. I told my daughter that she'd better not listen to his music and explained to her the seriousness of his actions.

So, to wrap it up - I will continue to pray for him and the people that support him.

[Koffy Brown]

and could someone please pray for the parents whom I am sure knew that their daughter was seeing and possibly sexing this man, but did nothing to protect her. The aunt "Sparkle" that basically hand delivered her to him...and everyone that was involved...

[formerly known as kenspank]

i think that children are never children.
they are people developing into this form. developing into themselves. often times we try to retard what they want to become and try to turn children into what we want them to be. we try to control them so that they turn out just right.

but generation after generation, the life spirit within children seeks its own path. it does what it needs to do in order to grow even though the parent tries to shield the child from danger. however, often times we need to experience the boundaries in order to know the boundaries. children find a way to become regardless of the obstalces we place in front of them.

the women in those videos do not look like they are under duress of any kind. r. kelly is not any more sick than they are. if there is anyone to blame, they all must share the blame. if anyone goes to jail, they should all go.

potentially they enjoyed those precious moments that were caught on video. if only we all experienced pure unadulterated joy every moment of our lives.

[Alanda Marquette from DiscoLadyLand]

Originally posted by Ashaki:
and could someone please pray for the parents whom I am sure knew that their daughter was seeing and possibly sexing this man, but did nothing to protect her. The aunt "Sparkle" that basically hand delivered her to him...and everyone that was involved...

Yes, especially for the parents and adults responsible of selling their children. There is nothing cute about a girl that looks and dress older than their age.

[Wild i]

Originally posted by kenspank:
i think that children are never children.
they are people developing into this form. developing into themselves. often times we try to retard what they want to become and try to turn children into what we want them to be. we try to control them so that they turn out just right.

but generation after generation, the life spirit within children seeks its own path. it does what it needs to do in order to grow even though the parent tries to shield the child from danger. however, often times we need to experience the boundaries in order to know the boundaries. children find a way to become regardless of the obstalces we place in front of them.

the women in those videos do not look like they are under duress of any kind. r. kelly is not any more sick than they are. if there is anyone to blame, they all must share the blame. if anyone goes to jail, they should all go.

potentially they enjoyed those precious moments that were caught on video. if only we all experienced pure unadulterated joy every moment of our lives.

Note to self: Buy shotgun tomorrow.

[Ron la Rock]

shalewa & wild i
i was moved deeply thanks 4 being brave and sharing very real up in here

also the questioning of removing an artists work from thier deeds & life
well I can separate the 2
this does not mean i support thier actions
nor condone these as well
however thier works the gifts
wich is always trying 2 express something
about 1 self good bad or
dark or lite or
in different is what art is made of without the entertainment aspect of it
(do i make any sense here?)
all the greats had turmoil & interconflicts making the very art abstract crys 4 reasoning or clearity

also know 1 including myself has stopped playing micheal jacksons records although its been very hard as of reccent the shit is clear
some responsible adulthood (espec in mikes case)
and parenting is missing from a lot of folks
enviorment
& I hope someone in kelly's circle has told him this wasn't gonna fly
well we know now he has the worst circle jerks & yes men crew in the world

so support is 1 thing blind support without reasoning is
something else all together

[Ron la Rock]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
You guys are supporting the album, but not him right?

You guys are condoning a 30 year old man having sex with an underaged girl, but you support the album right?

Last year a bunch of us demonized this man, but we support his album right?

Anyone here have any crack?

Peace

some of the responses are disturbing 2 say the least
yes GROOVE someone is smoking crack [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[mhd]

Originally posted by kenspank:
i think that children are never children.
they are people developing into this form. developing into themselves. often times we try to retard what they want to become and try to turn children into what we want them to be. we try to control them so that they turn out just right.

but generation after generation, the life spirit within children seeks its own path. it does what it needs to do in order to grow even though the parent tries to shield the child from danger. however, often times we need to experience the boundaries in order to know the boundaries. children find a way to become regardless of the obstalces we place in front of them.

the women in those videos do not look like they are under duress of any kind. r. kelly is not any more sick than they are. if there is anyone to blame, they all must share the blame. if anyone goes to jail, they should all go.

potentially they enjoyed those precious moments that were caught on video. if only we all experienced pure unadulterated joy every moment of our lives.

i am completely stunned by this comment..

[DJ Timmy Richardson]

Originally posted by kenspank:
i think that children are never children.
they are people developing into this form. developing into themselves. often times we try to retard what they want to become and try to turn children into what we want them to be. we try to control them so that they turn out just right.

but generation after generation, the life spirit within children seeks its own path. it does what it needs to do in order to grow even though the parent tries to shield the child from danger. however, often times we need to experience the boundaries in order to know the boundaries. children find a way to become regardless of the obstalces we place in front of them.

the women in those videos do not look like they are under duress of any kind. r. kelly is not any more sick than they are. if there is anyone to blame, they all must share the blame. if anyone goes to jail, they should all go.

potentially they enjoyed those precious moments that were caught on video. if only we all experienced pure unadulterated joy every moment of our lives.

You need help man.