The Bible and anti Gay sentiments ?

**imported_mhd** · 11-28-2002, 02:45 PM

idance, you have lost your fucking mind

**LEONARD REMIX RROY** · 11-29-2002, 01:52 AM

There was a discussion at a gay bar about the "Born This Way" thing. One guy said, "Born gay is a lie" he date's men out of choice and not for any other reason, quite a few women there agreed with that statement.

I believe it is all choice and nothing more because, humans are the higher form of animial and lower forms of animal don't engauge (s/p) in same sex acts. For that reason I feel it is reasonable to say that same sex relationships are by choice and have nothing to do with DNA.

The "Only a man knows how to fully satisfy a man and vice versa" statement is a bunch of crap. Seeing 2 women get it on turns me off - not to mention it clearly state that - they don't need what I got to have a good time.

I have nothing against gay people except.....making excuses for their actions or, lying to a straight person who they are in a relationship with.

Being a straight man who work at a gay bar put me into alot of discussions as of Gay stereotyping, I am allowed to see their reality as it is and not the Hollywood version.

The biblical aspect of homosexuality is not something I would argue but, the born this way thing is seen as a lie to gay people too. I don't understand how a person can look a someone of their same sex and get stimulated, nor can I understand how straight men get a rise out of seeing 2 women get it on - when seeing 2 men do the same turn them off.

I wonder if gay male sex scenes turn straight women on as much as two women turn men on?

Women should edit a gay male sex scene in a porno video and not tell their male, then watch his reaction when he see two men go at it. Maybe the selfish threesome wanting male will then get a reality check.

I guess i'm a square because, one woman is enough for me, I have no desire for two in my bed.

**DJ Dwreck** · 11-29-2002, 02:15 AM

any true christian who follows the word of jesus has to accept all that is written in the bible to be the word of god. so, either you accept all of of it or reject all of it. which is it?[/QB]

Why can't you all just back up and see the woods and not the trees. Nitpicking quotes from any book isn't going to get us anywhere. Quite the contrary. Back up. Look at the big picture.
There is a cultural context to the Bible...don't forget that.
But the messages are still viable today.
How bout this:
Love one another.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Love your enemy, do good to those who hurt you.
Turn the other cheek.

Simple.

If you follow those rules, you don't need to worry about anything else. Do you?

[ November 29, 2002, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: DJ Dwreck ]

**Martin Red** · 11-29-2002, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
Martin, you're absolutly right on this, the 2 girls thing is a phantasm of trio, in the idea that the 2 girls are bisexual.

But wanting to fuck a lesbian is automatically a rape.
Reverse : an heterolady wanting to fuck a gay !

I guess. Anyway I'm with you and Roy, one women is enough.

Two is greed and three is gluttony

**Randall Clobby** · 11-29-2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by LEONARD REMIX RROY:
There was a discussion at a gay bar about the "Born This Way" thing. One guy said, "Born gay is a lie" he date's men out of choice and not for any other reason, quite a few women there agreed with that statement.

I believe it is all choice and nothing more because, humans are the higher form of animial and lower forms of animal don't engauge (s/p) in same sex acts. For that reason I feel it is reasonable to say that same sex relationships are by choice and have nothing to do with DNA.

The "Only a man knows how to fully satisfy a man and vice versa" statement is a bunch of crap. Seeing 2 women get it on turns me off - not to mention it clearly state that - they don't need what I got to have a good time.

I have nothing against gay people except.....making excuses for their actions or, lying to a straight person who they are in a relationship with.

Being a straight man who work at a gay bar put me into alot of discussions as of Gay stereotyping, I am allowed to see their reality as it is and not the Hollywood version.

The biblical aspect of homosexuality is not something I would argue but, the born this way thing is seen as a lie to gay people too. I don't understand how a person can look a someone of their same sex and get stimulated, nor can I understand how straight men get a rise out of seeing 2 women get it on - when seeing 2 men do the same turn them off.

I wonder if gay male sex scenes turn straight women on as much as two women turn men on?

Women should edit a gay male sex scene in a porno video and not tell their male, then watch his reaction when he see two men go at it. Maybe the selfish threesome wanting male will then get a reality check.

I guess i'm a square because, one woman is enough for me, I have no desire for two in my bed.

Don't you get the least bit frustrated when you hear some caucasian making generalizations and opines about your people? I'm sure that hearing someone that is not of color tell you about what goes on inside the mind of a black person galls you to no end. Although I do respect your opinion, I do resent you telling me that I am making an excuse for the way that I am. With all due respect, how the hell can you tell me that? You don't even know me. (To say that I'm not livin right :D ) Please don't mistake the incessant chatter of a bar queen for deep, pychological insight. The following statement is more often than not taken the wrong way because it assumes that there is something wrong with homosexuality, but with that said, why would a person choose to live a life that is constantly being scrutinized by others? Why would a person choose to live a life where the teen rate of suicide is astronomical? I'm sure that you know where I am going with this and I'm tired, so tired, of having to enlighten people, so I'll end it here: you (as in confused/enraged/just-don't-get-it-and-wont-even-bother-trying/homophobic/"I have gay friends"-type people) think whatever you will, just treat me with respect. You may talk behind my back all you wish, but when you see me coming, shut the hell up and don't act as if you know what's in the psychological development of every, single homosexual, and most of all, don't "be" a friend. Friendly acquaitances of this sort are all a homo can stand. We don't need friends like that.

**floorgasm** · 11-29-2002, 02:09 PM

well put.

**rob brito** · 11-29-2002, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by DJ Dwreck:

Why can't you all just back up and see the woods and not the trees. Nitpicking quotes from any book isn't going to get us anywhere. Quite the contrary. Back up. Look at the big picture.
There is a cultural context to the Bible...don't forget that.
But the messages are still viable today.
How bout this:
Love one another.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Love your enemy, do good to those who hurt you.
Turn the other cheek.

Simple.

If you follow those rules, you don't need to worry about anything else. Do you?[/QUOTE]

dwreck, it's convenient for people to omit what isn't convenient with their agenda. the agenda is clear.

rarely is the bible taken as a whole and seen for it's entire message. these quotes are very local and pertaining to those times but the message CAN be translated to our times.
jesus himself clearly stated that the customs and culture of old ended with him. yes homosexuality wasn't approved of, but even heterosexual marriage, although welcomed, wasn't recommended as much as staying single. the bottom line in his message was growing spiritually as a single person and paying no mind to superficial partitions as are sexual taste, church affiliation, skin color, etc.

basically a refocus onto those things that are from within.

[ November 29, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: robs ]

**ronhnyc** · 11-29-2002, 05:03 PM

Don't we all love the Emperor.

**JMNYC** · 11-29-2002, 09:04 PM

Is this discussion still going? [img]graemlins/jpshakehead.gif[/img]

#1 - Leonard - there's PLENTY of homosexuality in the animal kingdom AND people don't make a choice as to what attracts them. They may make choices about their actual behavior, but their emotions and attractions are really outside of their control. These attractions may develop through environment as well as through genetics, but please don't tell me that one day you chose to be attracted to women and ever since then your dick got hard when you saw one. That's just utter bullshit, and I know from your other posts that you have much more to bring to the table than ca-ca, so why would you step with this nonsense?

#2 - Clobby, top or not, please don't feed into the bullshit that created the "top vs. bottom" bullshit in the first place. You are not defending yourself by saying "I'm strictly a top" ... in fact, you're adding fuel to the fire. Either you're a homo or you're not. Even the "bi" thing is a bit over-rated to me.

#3 - Men want two bi women, although we know that women are better at cunni than men BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE, so that the man can feel really needed to "fill" the women at the end. Problem with this scenario: usually the women have a better time with each other and the man is just a prop. A dildo would probably do just as well and not tell all his friends about it after.

Trust me - y'all know I have many, many fine hetero female friends. There are plenty of things they tell me that you'll never hear ...

Oh, one last thing. The only reason to be so homophobic is if you're supressing your own homosexual fantasies. Otherwise, why not mind your business? The gay life can be a very sordid thing - but then again, so can the straight life.

This from someone who's done it all. Several times.

**Randall Clobby** · 12-01-2002, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by JMNYC:
#2 - Clobby, top or not, please don't feed into the bullshit that created the "top vs. bottom" bullshit in the first place. You are not defending yourself by saying "I'm strictly a top" ... in fact, you're adding fuel to the fire. Either you're a homo or you're not. Even the "bi" thing is a bit over-rated to me.

Whoa! Slow down there, Chicago No-Show. It's quite often that my humor and sarcasm goes over the head of many an individual, but we're on the same side! Chill, man! Relax and float downstream. If anyone would "get" me I would think that it would be you. My response was meant soley to chap that Hk person. If someone "sees" deeper into my bullshit, well, that's not my problem. Don't be so defensive, it's not flattering.

And while I got you here I have a bone to pick with you. I was doing twenty extra push-ups during my workout sessions just so I could look good for your holiday in Chicago. The whole week I kept thinking that I was finally going to meet the infamous and satanically handsome Jon Martin. Well, I guess I'm just too common for you. I'm sure that you had a blast hanging out with all of your superstar DJ friends like, Sasha, and dancing the night away at Excalibur. Myself, I burned my retinas out waiting for an e-mail that never came telling me that His Honor has arrived. Is it because I'm not "Manhattan" enough for you? Was I going to fortify The Velvet Rope if I were to be seen with you and your boys? Or, were you just afraid that once you gazed into my smoldering eyes you would've dropped the zero and gotten with the hero. In either case, it's cool. Matthew J informed me that he could now take the place of you as my Superstar New York DJ friend.

Yours Truly

P.S. You owe me money for the new Dolce & Gabbana wingtips that I bought for the occasion.

**Randall Clobby** · 12-01-2002, 01:15 PM

And if anyone is actually interested, I am not strictly a top. I usually spend my time in the Italian province of, Versitalia, AND, I hardly do that anyway. Somethings must remain intimate between two loving people.

Now, I'm being completely serious.

**imported_mhd** · 12-01-2002, 02:04 PM

[ December 01, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: mhd ]

**imported_mhd** · 12-01-2002, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Randall Clobby:

Yours Truly

P.S. You owe me money for the new Dolce & Gabbana wingtips that I bought for the occasion.

haha!

[ December 01, 2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: mhd ]

**imported_Gman** · 12-01-2002, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Randall Clobby:

Yours Truly

P.S. You owe me money for the new Dolce & Gabbana wingtips that I bought for the occasion.

haha![/QUOTE]Not funny. He should be reimbursed in full.

-G

**imported_mhd** · 12-01-2002, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Gman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mhd:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Randall Clobby:

Yours Truly

P.S. You owe me money for the new Dolce & Gabbana wingtips that I bought for the occasion.

haha![/QUOTE]Not funny. He should be reimbursed in full.

-G[/QUOTE]G you right, clear case of breach of contract, (implied); clobby, clearly relied on JM coming to chi, to his detriment and purchased said D&G wingtips in anticipation thereof

**imported_Gman** · 12-01-2002, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by mhd:
G you right, clear case of breach of contract, (implied); clobby, clearly relied on JM coming to chi, to his detriment and purchased said D&G wingtips in anticipation thereof

Exactly...

**JMNYC** · 12-01-2002, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Randall Clobby:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JMNYC:
#2 - Clobby, top or not, please don't feed into the bullshit that created the "top vs. bottom" bullshit in the first place. You are not defending yourself by saying "I'm strictly a top" ... in fact, you're adding fuel to the fire. Either you're a homo or you're not. Even the "bi" thing is a bit over-rated to me.

Whoa! Slow down there, Chicago No-Show. It's quite often that my humor and sarcasm goes over the head of many an individual, but we're on the same side! Chill, man! Relax and float downstream. If anyone would "get" me I would think that it would be you. My response was meant soley to chap that Hk person. If someone "sees" deeper into my bullshit, well, that's not my problem. Don't be so defensive, it's not flattering.

And while I got you here I have a bone to pick with you. I was doing twenty extra push-ups during my workout sessions just so I could look good for your holiday in Chicago. The whole week I kept thinking that I was finally going to meet the infamous and satanically handsome Jon Martin. Well, I guess I'm just too common for you. I'm sure that you had a blast hanging out with all of your superstar DJ friends like, Sasha, and dancing the night away at Excalibur. Myself, I burned my retinas out waiting for an e-mail that never came telling me that His Honor has arrived. Is it because I'm not "Manhattan" enough for you? Was I going to fortify The Velvet Rope if I were to be seen with you and your boys? Or, were you just afraid that once you gazed into my smoldering eyes you would've dropped the zero and gotten with the hero. In either case, it's cool. Matthew J informed me that he could now take the place of you as my Superstar New York DJ friend.

Yours Truly

P.S. You owe me money for the new Dolce & Gabbana wingtips that I bought for the occasion.[/QUOTE]Sorry Clobby, but I never made the trip. Don't think that I wouldn't had calt someboty if I made it out there. I was blessed with two amazing parties last week and (thank GOD) an actual day off in-between. And now I've been fiercely read for it. Thanks. [img]graemlins/acclaim.gif[/img]

The above was not an attack. Just a reminder that when dealing with ignorance, one might want to be consistent in one's arguments. As usual, my being direct seems to have gotten me into hot water. Return the shoes - they may have impressed Matthew, but I am much deeper than that ;) . I guess if you're not speaking to me, you could send him the bill, too.

Who needs the Times when I come here for my Sunday morning reading? [img]graemlins/mecry.gif[/img]

Should I just write it off as a displaced Sunday-morning-hangover rant? I've said it many times - Tina is not your friend!

**Randall Clobby** · 12-01-2002, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by JMNYC:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Randall Clobby:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JMNYC:
#2 - Clobby, top or not, please don't feed into the bullshit that created the "top vs. bottom" bullshit in the first place. You are not defending yourself by saying "I'm strictly a top" ... in fact, you're adding fuel to the fire. Either you're a homo or you're not. Even the "bi" thing is a bit over-rated to me.

Whoa! Slow down there, Chicago No-Show. It's quite often that my humor and sarcasm goes over the head of many an individual, but we're on the same side! Chill, man! Relax and float downstream. If anyone would "get" me I would think that it would be you. My response was meant soley to chap that Hk person. If someone "sees" deeper into my bullshit, well, that's not my problem. Don't be so defensive, it's not flattering.

And while I got you here I have a bone to pick with you. I was doing twenty extra push-ups during my workout sessions just so I could look good for your holiday in Chicago. The whole week I kept thinking that I was finally going to meet the infamous and satanically handsome Jon Martin. Well, I guess I'm just too common for you. I'm sure that you had a blast hanging out with all of your superstar DJ friends like, Sasha, and dancing the night away at Excalibur. Myself, I burned my retinas out waiting for an e-mail that never came telling me that His Honor has arrived. Is it because I'm not "Manhattan" enough for you? Was I going to fortify The Velvet Rope if I were to be seen with you and your boys? Or, were you just afraid that once you gazed into my smoldering eyes you would've dropped the zero and gotten with the hero. In either case, it's cool. Matthew J informed me that he could now take the place of you as my Superstar New York DJ friend.

Yours Truly

P.S. You owe me money for the new Dolce & Gabbana wingtips that I bought for the occasion.[/QUOTE]Sorry Clobby, but I never made the trip. Don't think that I wouldn't had calt someboty if I made it out there. I was blessed with two amazing parties last week and (thank GOD) an actual day off in-between. And now I've been fiercely read for it. Thanks. [img]graemlins/acclaim.gif[/img]

The above was not an attack. Just a reminder that when dealing with ignorance, one might want to be consistent in one's arguments. As usual, my being direct seems to have gotten me into hot water. Return the shoes - they may have impressed Matthew, but I am much deeper than that ;) . I guess if you're not speaking to me, you could send him the bill, too.

Who needs the Times when I come here for my Sunday morning reading? [img]graemlins/mecry.gif[/img]

Should I just write it off as a displaced Sunday-morning-hangover rant? I've said it many times - Tina is not your friend![/QUOTE]Of course I'm talking to you!

I'm going to have to start using a plethora of smilies in my posts. :D

Ooooh! You were talkin' to Tina?!?! I'm tellin' momma! Tina and I had a short visit on Friday night. I had too much family shit to do this weekend and this week for her to have a proper stay. It's a good thing too because Tina usually ends up turning into Ike who in turn, kicks my ass! What's sleep got to do with it? :D

XOXO

**JMNYC** · 12-01-2002, 07:00 PM

Tina is no friend of mine.

I was saying maybe you had a visit with her and were not feeling your whole self when you proceeded to read me for filth.

Maybe I was wrong. Wouldn't be the first time (although it may be the first time I publicly admitted it). [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] and yes, please use appropriate smilies when addressing me.

I'm still laughing my ass off at the shoe comments from the peanut gallery.

**Wild i** · 12-02-2002, 06:44 AM

Okay, I got tired of reading so let me just cut to the chase...

God has ten rules... 10... Only TEN, and none of them have anything to do with homosexuality.

2 years ago, I read the New Testament 3 times in a row and decided to pretty much lay aside all but the first four books, which is what Jesus said. I found everything else after that to be man's interpretation of what Jesus said.

Conversely, while Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, He addressed only updated information, so in that case I've got to go with the military instruction: "Follow your last order."

Having said that, I have not yet steeled myself to read the Old Testament in its entirety, but from what I can glean, it is fraught with contradiction and I have yet to meet anyone I felt was wise enough to interpret God's word. Therefore, I'll have to examine it myself and get from it what I can.

Born this way... As many of you know, it is my belief that everyone is born bisexual to varying degrees<duck>, then falls to one side of the line or the other (or squarely in the middle) with age. Just because you can't understand a thing does not invalidate it. I can't understand why my son chooses to live in a room that looks like a flop house, but he always has preferred the mess. To say "I can't see it, therefore it's wrong," is the smallest kind of small mindedness that gets us into these judgemental positions in the first place.

I've always told my children, and I believe it to be so: God has only ten rules. Those ten rule can be effectively applied to every conceivable situation in your life. If you follow those ten rules, you will be happy and people will be happy with you. Sometimes it's difficult to follow those rules, but it's worth the effort."

Remember, one of those rule -- the one often forgotten by those doing the yapping -- "Judge not, lest ye shall be judged."

[ December 02, 2002, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Wild i ]

**Martin Red** · 12-02-2002, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Wild i:
Okay, I got tired of reading so let me just cut to the chase...

God has ten rules... 10... Only TEN, and none of them have anything to do with homosexuality.

2 years ago, I read the New Testament 3 times in a row and decided to pretty much lay aside all but the first four books, which is what Jesus said. I found everything else after that to be man's interpretation of what Jesus said.

Conversely, while Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, He addressed only updated information, so in that case I've got to go with the military instruction: "Follow your last order."

Having said that, I have not yet steeled myself to read the Old Testament in its entirety, but from what I can glean, it is fraught with contradiction and I have yet to meet anyone I felt was wise enough to interpret God's word. Therefore, I'll have to examine it myself and get from it what I can.

Born this way... As many of you know, it is my belief that everyone is born bisexual to varying degrees<duck>, then falls to one side of the line or the other (or squarely in the middle) with age. Just because you can't understand a thing does not invalidate it. I can't understand why my son chooses to live in a room that looks like a flop house, but he always has preferred the mess. To say "I can't see it, therefore it's wrong," is the smallest kind of small mindedness that gets us into these judgemental positions in the first place.

I've always told my children, and I believe it to be so: God has only ten rules. Those ten rule can be effectively applied to every conceivable situation in your life. If you follow those ten rules, you will be happy and people will be happy with you. Sometimes it's difficult to follow those rules, but it's worth the effort."

Remember, one of those rule -- the one often forgotten by those doing the yapping -- "Judge not, lest ye shall be judged."

First Tables of Stone(Exodus 20, "which Moses didst break")
Second Tables of Stone(Exodus 34, "the words that were on the first")

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. 1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).

2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 4. All the first-born are mine.

5. Honor your father and your mother.
5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.

6. You shall not kill.
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

7. You shall not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.

8. You shall not steal.
8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.

10. You shall not covet.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk

**the 18th letter** · 12-02-2002, 07:25 AM

There was this kid in 2nd grade that the older kids used to tease because of the way he walked and talked. He grew up to be gay. Was he born that way or was it the result of something else. At 7 years old and showing homosexual tendancies makes a hell of of an argument of being born that way.

**the crackhouse** · 12-04-2002, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
idance, you have lost your fucking mind

What do you mean mhd ?..

**the crackhouse** · 12-04-2002, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by mhd:
idance, you have lost your fucking mind

Or can you tell me where it is ?..

**formerly known as kenspank** · 12-04-2002, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by idancetoomuch:
Martin, you're absolutly right on this, the 2 girls thing is a phantasm of trio, in the idea that the 2 girls are bisexual.

But wanting to fuck a lesbian is automatically a rape.
Reverse : an heterolady wanting to fuck a gay !

you may have a point there idancetoomuch. i'm a hetero guy. i accept image of men have sex with each other and women having sex with each other equally. i don't get off on either.

nevertheless, i feel that other guys get off on seeing women have sex with each other because women having sex seem to be interested in having sex. and what's more attractive than a woman who is interested in having sex?

however rape steps into the picture because many guys don't wait to measure a woman's level of interest in having sex with them. you know, when a woman looks into your eyes and there's no doubt that she's interested in having sex with you.

so if a woman's level of interest in having sex with a man is not a criterion for a man, then he might run into problems.

i've never been in a threesome, but sure i've always desired to be pleasured by more than one person and enveloped in an overload of stimulation. however, a threesome would only be interesting to me if the other two people (women) would be sincerely interested in providing me with plesaure. so if a woman's interest lies somewhere else with someone else, i figure your desire for her is a waste of time. if you gotta jump through a lot of hoops to convert someone to being hetero when they are homo, what's the point?

if a woman is interested in you from the get go, all you have to do is sit back and enjoy the ride.

Thread: The Bible and anti Gay sentiments ?

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