Question for recording audio/vinyl and normalizing...

[Daryl]

forgive me if NONE of this makes sense -

ok, heres the deal...im using PEAK (for its simplicity) to record and archive my vinyl, which ive heard is pretty much just like SoundForge. but in any case...

after im done recording the actual audio, i usually normalize the track. now while that raises the levels to 0db (right before clipping), it uses the peak level instead of the RMS level.

i noticed that when i pull a wave file from a cd, the wave looks "meat-ier" and more full (a nice block of audio). but when i record vinyl its not as loud and the waves look less bulky with higher peaks.

so when i burn those waves onto CDs, i always find myself turning up the gains on the board (which isnt so bad when you have LED meters on the mixer, obviously some dont ie. a lot of rotary mixers)

basically im asking if theres a way to still raise the gain on these recordings without clipping without compromising the quality of the track? im also trying not to add any more 'color' by EQ'ing these bastards either

(im recording straight into my computer using a USB phono preamp)

[hairyarmbutcher]

I dont seem to get the same problem- I use wavlab to pull samples into my laptop. When you grab from CD are you doing do from your pc/laptop cd/dvd reader?

A friend of mine uses peak(its a mac thing isnt it?) and I'm sure he had a similar problem with his own music- but using peak he kind of fatted up his recording somhow- if i see him i'll ask.

[Daryl]

yea when i pull from cds, its from my computer drive - but thats not where im having problems. the audio from cds are fine...

its just when i try and rip vinyl

anyhow, i was messin with it again last night and i came to this conclusion (which i shouldve realized in the first place) some records are mastered MUCH better than others.

[ January 24, 2007, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Daryl ]

[guy formally knwn as mfsb]

I've never been a fan of normalizing audio unless it's for individual sounds, ie: kicks, snares, etc. The problem with normalizing is that it takes the dynamics out of the music. After awhile I get ear fatigue.

I use T-racks to master my vinyl. Does an excellent job and adds warmth to the recordings.

As far as recording vinyl; try some compression (around 2:1 ratio) and then use a limiter. A limiter will peak your audio but still keep the dynamics.

By the way, how's the LA life? Haven't talked to you since the Crosstalk days.

[Daryl]

Originally posted by guy formally knwn as mfsb:
The problem with normalizing is that it takes the dynamics out of the music.

this true? never thought that before, just thought it raised the overall level in relation to the loudest part of the song

as for things out west - things are good. nice to be chillin in 70degree weather...miss the snow a lil, just dont miss walking/driving in it!

[guy formally knwn as mfsb]

Originally posted by Daryl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by guy formally knwn as mfsb:
The problem with normalizing is that it takes the dynamics out of the music.

this true? never thought that before, just thought it raised the overall level in relation to the loudest part of the song
[/QUOTE]Try it for yourself. Record some audio without processing. You'll see the dynamics in the wave files. Now take that same file and normalize it. What you'll get is an audio file maxed out (one straight line) no dynamics. Then load up the original audio file and add a limiter. Check the wave files. The dynamics are still there and the volume will be louder.

Yeah, LA is nice man. I was buggin when my uncle (use to live in Long Beach) told me u gotta go on a waiting list to purchase a home out there. I guess that's only for the poor folks. He had a 2 bedroom shack and sold it for $500,000. How does one survive out there?

[ January 24, 2007, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: guy formally knwn as mfsb ]

[Daryl]

Originally posted by guy formally knwn as mfsb:
How does one survive out there?

barely.

nah, ive got a straight gig - but at the same time, im more focused on work out here compared to when i was back home. definitely not spending as much $ on bullshit like kickin it anymore, so that helps a lot

[pHil m3diNa]

I use WavedLab which is also an excellent software for ripping all kinds of audio.

The only flaw is that it's not Mac compatible...

It can also be your soundcard..

cheers!
pm

[Ben Dean]

Normalizing does NOT affect the dynamics. It just makes the file as loud as it can possibly go before the loudest peak is clipped. A limiter however WILL crush the dynamics.

The answer to why the cds you are ripping are louder than when you record your vinyl, most probably lies in this interesting artical here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/...s/dynamics.htm

Hope this helps.

[Daryl]

Originally posted by Ben Dean:
Normalizing does NOT affect the dynamics. It just makes the file as loud as it can possibly go before the loudest peak is clipped. A limiter however WILL crush the dynamics.

The answer to why the cds you are ripping are louder than when you record your vinyl, most probably lies in this interesting artical here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/...s/dynamics.htm

Hope this helps.

Mr. Dean - thanx man for this, this is exactly what im talkin about! so those tracks where the peaks are limited and 'flatlined' all the way through is something i should really NOT admire.

also when im recording vinyl the way i do, im gonna conclude that normalizing to where my peaks DONT clip - i'm still maintaining the true dynamics of the song. your post helped a WHOLE lot - thanx again!

[ January 25, 2007, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Daryl ]

[Ben Dean]

Yeah, the only way normalizing will affect the dynamics of a track is if you set it over 100%, then obviously clipping will occur and crush your peaks.

I was shocked when I read that article. What I thought was down to incredible engineering, it turns out is mainly down to wacking the volume up to 11 and 'give a shit if it clips'.

[WalterM]

Daryl,

If you want a simple tool to help you boost the RMS of your digitized vinyl, you can try something like Wave's L2 Ultramaximizer plugin.

It sort of combines some of the benefits of 'limiting' (boosting overall level) and exciting (restoring some of the high end shimmer that can be lost when limiting) in a very simple to use interface.

You should be fine with the default settings; there is basically only one fader you will need to adjust. Look for a reduction of no more than -5 or -6 at any point in the song and you should have the best of both worlds: a higher RMS without squashing the crap out of the song and still letting it breathe (like what's addressed in the article posted above by Ben Dean).

Guy formally knwn as mfsb mentioned T-Racks, which essentially accomplishes the same thing as the L2.

Hope this helps. Maybe someone can recommend similar tools?

Good luck!

walter