external effetcs (MPX1) & SX

[zakary]

Hi everyone,
i need your advice on using the Lexicon MPX1 with sx, i think this topic has been discussed but i don't understand how it's done.

My setup consists of an RME multiface, Lexicon MPX1, NI Kontakt, NI Battery and the Novation Nova, i haven't yet decided on which sequencer so right now i'm doing some research to figure out how i can do things i have in mind.

My question is how to use the effects of the MPX1 in SX, for example use a reverb of the MPX1 on a drum part played by NI Battery

The connection of the MPX1 with the RME is digital, i don't want to route thinks through a mixing desk.

thanks in advance
zak

[dennis f]

Hi Zak
ok it can be done...but note* your going to get a latency on that mpx 1 that will render your fx box just about unusable. What you have to do is add your mpx-1 as an input buss. Let's say 3-4. Turn direct monitoring on. And then route the tracks to that buss. To tell you the truth I wouldn't attempt this though unless you get vers. 3 which came out yesterday. They've put in a feature to allow you to do this and they've added delay compensation to account for the latency. The only hitch? 150 to upgrade.

[zakary]

Thanks very much for your help dennis f,

i'm in the process of changing my setup, i'm trying to limit my equipment and focus on methods-composing-making music, getting the groove right, instead of "wondering about", plus i had enough with all the cables, routing, noise, etc. A soft-vsti setup can cover my needs.

I think that a great track can be made with just a few sounds, right sounds at the right time a track can groove with a few elements, that's what i like anyway !!! I think you've mentioned that in another post of yours. My classic example is "Imagine" - John Lennon & a piano, the smallest setup, a great song.

I just thought that i could keep my mpx 1 since reverb plugins are not up to scratch yet, plus they're cpu hungry, maybe keep my lexicon compounder as well.

Would logic do what i want better-easier, or any other sequencer? I'm not necessariry tied up with SX, i'm considering which sequencer to use, which one suites me better.

thanks again for you help !
z

[dennis f]

I went through the same drama of trying to find plugins that were on par with hardware. The only and I mean only close alternative IMHO are convolution reverbs such as SIR which is freeware, Voxengo PristineSpace and Waves IR-1. Read up on this technology. I've used all three and they all do the same thing and can share impulses. I prefer the IR-1 but it's 800 bucks!. But SIR does exactly the same and it's free-ware.

Changing sequencer's at this point in the game gains you know distinctive advantage in sound quality or features for that matter. The only thing relevant is the workflow and esthetics.
What truly determines a better sound is your A/D to D/A conversion. So you'd be wise to spend the big bucks there. It makes a huge difference. I used to have a Motu 1296 and I thought that it was ok till I went out and spent some bucks on a Apogee Rossetta 800. Twas night and day! Apogee Da-16x is next. But if dough is an issue...you should check out RME stuff. Their Hammerfall cards are reputable.

Anything else is up in the air. Though arguments are trying to be made about Pro tools having a fixed point 48 bit summing mixer vs. Logic and Sx's 32 bit floating point mixer...it really all boils down to your conversion and your ears. I've heard horrible mixes done with pro tools and I've heard incredible mixes done with SX and Logic. So you can through that thought out of the window. One thing I do have to tell you though. You need to wither down all those vst's and vsti's to the real baller quality ones as believe it or not they affect your final output quality also. Some of those vst's introduce aliasing and all sorts of crap into your sound. I've gone strictly digital this last year and I've struggled with sound quality for the whole time. So I've been in the process of adjustment. Then again it's probably just me looking for reasons to fix things. I'm never satisfied! hahah

peace

[dennis f]

oops...i went off on a tanget...apologies.

Logic to me is a bit more convoluted than SX. SX adhere's to my "come from the old school analog" approach. From the mixing desk to routing flexibility...it all makes sense for MY workflow.

I have Logic also....and I must admit that their environment is a very powerful tool but only if your willing to take the time to use it to your advantage. Their standard set of plug ins blow away SX's but I don't really use any of the standards anyway so that became a moot point for me. I was more interested in obtaining vst's for eqs, efx and soft-synths. So the only thing i can really tell you is to dl a demo and try to see if it suits your workflow better.

peace

[dennis f]

Regarding cpu hungy reverbs.....This my friend is a good thing believe it or not. The more calculations being done the better. Go to www.Pricewatch.com and get your self a new cpu and an extra gig of memory.
A very good friend of mine used to tell me..."you want a picasso....well...you gotta pay for a picasso." Trust me in this biz that saying holds so much truth that it's just about ridiculous to a point. I've tried to find workarounds and have always found it cheaper in time and dough in the end to just get what I was supposed to get in the first place!hahah.

later

[dennis f]

By the way......I should say welcome....You have now just entered the land of no return!! As some of the folks here can probably attest to.
I call this just about the most expensive "hobby" I've ever been involved in! It's never ending..... Once your brain starts thinking of improving your setup...you've been hooked! This is on par with an addiction to substance abuse. hahaha!

peace

[zakary]

... "in the land of no return", hahaha i am aware that i've stepped in this land !!!

Having a background both in computers & music, regarding the debate software or hardware, i can say for sure that the sound from software CAN be better and it depends on two things : a) AD/DA converters b) the skills of the programmers that make the plugins and how good their algorithms are (more cpu-processing power helps of course)

So i made sure i have the AD/DA covered, i got my self the RME multiface and the sound quality is superb ! it definately covers my needs.

Having spent a few years fiddling around with all sorts of equipment and types of setup i realised that i spent more time on the equipment rather than making music, of course house music is also about the sounds used but i decided that i'll have to "narrow" my kit list, decide on how to work-workflow and concentrate on making music. I made a plan in order to get closer to my dream and this plan has 3 steps

a)decide on the VST's / VSTi's
b) decide on which platform
c) Organise my library of sounds/samples,

need not say practice & learn more on music theory. I'm pretty sure the fact that i wasn't getting close to my dream had to do with a, b & c. So i strarted my plan.

For a)i'm pretty much done, just trying to decide on reverb, eq & compression. For c) i'm in the process of organising my library, BUT i haven't decided on b) which platform

I've used cubase more but it lacks some things that are found in Logic and vice versa. It really depends on which kind of workflow suits me best. Recently i tried Ableton Live 4 and IT HAS some things i dreamt of !!! Especially for dance music, i found it very hard to lay out a track and achieve the "right feel" by programming the linear way. A friend of mine says "house music is hearing what you want, when you want it " and i found it very difficult to achieve this the way i was working, even though i had the elements in my mind. Live 4 gives you the oportunity to prepare your components / building blocks (either audio, midi a mixure of these as chorus, verses, etc, called themes in live 4 and trigger them, any of them, when you feel you should while all this is recorded in real time and go back and edit / change them, you may also do it the linear way. I will test it more and let everyone know what i think about it, only had it for a couple of days so i can't decide yet but i feel i'm on the right track on the workflow that suits me best.

So dennis f, i will check out what you propose for reverbs, i'll also check out eq/compresison plugins. I have NI kontakt, NI battery samplers and they rule !!! I also have the novation nova synth (pretty good but not sure about it yet, a bit trancy for me) and also trying out Albino which seems to kick ass !!! I agree with you that i have to wither down the plugins, that's part a) of my plan !!!

haha the land of no return, yes definately but i need to settle down a bit, find my way and get closer to my dream !!!

cheers
z

[zakary]

... forgot to mention that i agree with what you said about "i have always found it cheaper in time and dough in the end to just get what I was supposed to get in the first place"

hahaha me too, the number of time that i tried to find a workaround and concluded the obove.

Also i agree with the picasso example, that's for sure !!!

I know it's an expensive hobby/job i've spent quite a bit so far but i sense that i don't need to spend much more, i'm close to getting the setup - workflow that suits me best for the sound i have in mind !!! I'll try and remeber some tracks i like and give you and example of the sound i'm talking about. Once i achive that i might set new targets and new expenses

The quest never ends but i should at least decide on my tools

cheers

[dennis f]

for eq's:

1. GEQ-7 ( #1 so far an absolutely ridiculous eq)

2. Sonalksis Sv series (amazing but don't use too many of em though cause they'll cuz the entire mix to sound a bit hyped)

3. and believe it or not the old Q-metric....pretty close to some analog desks we compared it to. I thought it was gonna be garbage but we did some comparisons and it did the job fairly well.

4. Voxengo's eq

Compressors:

1. Sonalksis Sv series

2. Nomad Blue Tubes(cheaper alternative than the UAD-1 doesn't suit everything though)

3. UAD-1 1176 emu's (pretty damn close but you can't use em on everything as they have a distinctive sound)

4. Waves C series only because of the split band side chaining capabilites.

Reverb:

Any kind of convolution reverb period!....here's a link to all the impulses your heart desires...

www.noisevault.com

You can never have enough softsynths...but your kinda better off with the vendors one's. Only a couple of free ware ones are ok.

if you need sounds go to www.patcharena.com and register

hope this helps more on your quest

peace
d

[zakary]

hey !
thanks very much for your help & info sharing so far, i'll try the things from the links you mention.

Btw, for free plugins i find the mda instruments to be quite good, not a top interface but their sound is good. As for the effect plugins they have, i can't judge on their sound. http://www.mda-vst.com/

cheers
z

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