music theory: chord structures

[O'love]

Hello,

i am struggling a lot with bringing more "Advanced" music theory into my music, ie trying to find good chord-structures that work nicely with the basslines etc.

any tips, links, hints etc? do you all have a formal music education?

Olaf

[sezy]

nice one, i'm interested oin this too.

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

What do you mean by advanced?

What "level" are you at?

More details...

[Bill Blake]

My suggestion is that you get a ‘real book’ a comprehensive one (or good one) meaning it has really good Jazz standards (some real books suck).

Start studying the chord progressions you like (hint there are the more interesting ones like Cherokee and Giant Steps).

Now the trick is to learn all the possible substitution chords for the chords (alone) in the standards and the progressions (combined meaning all the possible subsitutions for each chord in the progression being studied really gives you a lot of ideas to play with).

This way it makes it fun because you are actually learning with real tunes instead of chord theory and its actually very practical.

For advanced theory regarding chords in modern composition, it really doesn’t hurt to get a catalog of Thelonius Monk’s work and especially Mingus.

Those two did some really interesting things with chords and progressions.

Take my advice, this is a really godd way to learn that shit and do what you asked about.

[ December 17, 2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Jamie Lennox ]

[Bill Blake]

Oh I forgot the main point is that its the substitution chords that will give a more creative way of thinking of your basslines underneath your chord progressions.

Sorry.

[O'love]

Originally posted by Bande-A-Part_ NYC:
What do you mean by advanced?

What "level" are you at?

More details...

i know a little about chord-theory and can play some chords and progressions, but i would love to hear some of that music theory specified for house and disco music..... i guess a lot of "classic" jazz progressions are used?

Olaf

[Bill Blake]

Fuck this forum.

You give somebody the best advice around and they dont even respond.

Olove just keep your Day Job.

Thats the best advice I can give you.

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Fuck this forum.

You give somebody the best advice around and they dont even respond.

Olove just keep your Day Job.

Thats the best advice I can give you.

Go back to the drama, oops I mean "Deep House and Disco Talk" forum with that attitude!

Olove, please thank him so we can all be happy...

[O'love]

jeez jamie! i can't do anything in 5 seconds!
of course i want to thank you for your response.....but instant gratification never is good ;)

your response is really appreciated, truely!

Olaf

[GROOVE VICTIM]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Fuck this forum.

You give somebody the best advice around and they dont even respond.

Olove just keep your Day Job.

Thats the best advice I can give you.

Jamie, I'm glad you brought up "Cherokee". My music teacher back in highschool beat that tune into my head in order for me to understand chord progressions. It's a good tune to learn how to move around a keyboard. Once you understand the structure of the song, it can be really easy to play.

Peace

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

Originally posted by GROOVE VICTIM:
Jamie, I'm glad you brought up "Cherokee". My music teacher back in highschool beat that tune into my head in order for me to understand chord progressions. It's a good tune to learn how to move around a keyboard. Once you understand the structure of the song, it can be really easy to play.

Peace [/QB]

Link?

[Drrtynewyork]

Originally posted by Jamie Lennox:
Fuck this forum.

You give somebody the best advice around and they dont even respond.

Olove just keep your Day Job.

Thats the best advice I can give you.

hahah retard

[C hristian]

Jazz music theory rules apply, unless you are trying to do something classicaly-based. in house/disco, most likely , you are not.

i say this to distinguish from classical music theory - Western Common Practice.

If you know what I'm getting at.

But it wouldn't hurt to study a little Bach anyway, since he was the original jamming jazz cat.

other than making this distinction, JLo's advice applies.

[C hristian]

but if you want some amazing harmonic progressions, check out Faure, Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz...the romantics, etc! Those guys are amazing!

Charlie Parker's solos? It's got straight-up Stravinsky symphonic passages in there. He admitted to this once.

forget about the modern / 20th century modern classics / composers for this. Those guys were cool and all, but tehy didn't know how to dance! (except for Bernstein and his stuff. Hell, he was dancing at Studio 57 after his NYC gigs!)

[C hristian]

my formal music education, btw has given me a lot, but not necessarily that which is needed. education is what you put into it and get out of it, and formal education is learning somebody else's rules.

and rules are made to be broken,....eventually.

just a thought.

[larry rauson]

I'm absolutely salivating somebody give an example of substitution please I'm begging

Dr. Rauson, Esq.

[socratez]

Learn your chords by heart.

You can do this by play on a c,, every thinkable chord wich sounds interesting or remotely interesting. Write them down on paper,,, and play all those chords on other scales.

For instance when you play a( c- e- g- b_chord) on a c, you have to play (d fis-a-cis) tog get the same chord on a d.

Play around with that, and when you got that, start combining different chords.
This is the way i learned it without any training. I dont even know the names of the chords but i do know how they sound and when i should use them

[socratez]

WHen i first heard Debussy my first thought was: Jeezzzz this sounds like Bill Evans

Originally posted by C hristian:
but if you want some amazing harmonic progressions, check out Faure, Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz...the romantics, etc! Those guys are amazing!

Charlie Parker's solos? It's got straight-up Stravinsky symphonic passages in there. He admitted to this once.

forget about the modern / 20th century modern classics / composers for this. Those guys were cool and all, but tehy didn't know how to dance! (except for Bernstein and his stuff. Hell, he was dancing at Studio 57 after his NYC gigs!)

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[C hristian]

if there was one thing that was banged into my head (listen up! we are talking the product of big money and time, here!) in music theory at 8am every weekday morning, it's this...


"Circle of Fifths"


that's your key to the answer to every harmonic problem you are facing right now, provided you are following common practice or Jazz harmonies. I'm not talking modal music or Japanese Gagaku, or anything like that!

[larry rauson]

Originally posted by socratez:
Learn your chords by heart.

You can do this by play on a c,, every thinkable chord wich sounds interesting or remotely interesting. Write them down on paper,,, and play all those chords on other scales.

For instance when you play a( c- e- g- b_chord) on a c, you have to play (d fis-a-cis) tog get the same chord on a d.

Play around with that, and when you got that, start combining different chords.
This is the way i learned it without any training. I dont even know the names of the chords but i do know how they sound and when i should use them

Very, Very dangerous...

Larry

[C hristian]

Jeezzzz this sounds like Bill Evans


other way around since, Debussy was dead before Evans was living, but yeah, I know what you mean! The more history you learn the more there is to learn.

[C hristian]

don't get too attached to chord names, as 1 chord can have multiple names, depending on the context.

simplicity simplicity simplicity

[Bill Blake]

Originally posted by O'love:
jeez jamie! i can't do anything in 5 seconds!
of course i want to thank you for your response.....but instant gratification never is good ;)

your response is really appreciated, truely!

Olaf

Ha ha ha ha

Ok.

Good luck!

And shut up Larry. Ill give you your damn definition after this week of hectic work is done.

Ive only got a enough time to be a smart ass on the board, not in depth.

[lesysteme]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...33738?v=glance

mark levines jazz theory book is apperently very good.

for disco and house and techno, i wouldnt worry too much about shedding on charts like cheroke and other jazz standards, as the rely on multiple uses of II-V progessions and shifting tonal centers.

for house and disco, the sounds is primarliy based in the II chord of any tonal center ie: the "key"

so in C (lets say), we're mostly dealing with the minor chord on d minor.

so leaning voicings and chords that work in minor settings will give the sound your looking for.

jazz minor standards ofter use flatend 5ths and then flatened or raised 9ths that are then used to lead into either a majorly based ii-V or a dominant minor if the progression is a minor blues lets say. a much different sound that what house is based on


so using the 9th and 13th on a minor or dorion mode chord is a common sound used in house and disco.

also lean pentatonic scales and "blues" scales for the basis for alot of the classic basslines, "love is the message" comes to mind instantly.

[Bande-A-Part_NYC]

Is that why all House sounds the same? Hahahaha...

Hey Larry, I like how you did THAT thing you did with that Desiya remix. I wanna do that shit!