...as promised....

[Hk]

Tired as heck but....

"Western civilization begins with humanism and ends with nihilism and its various disguised forms. Humanism does not mean, as some believe, respect for humanity and the dignity of mankind or humanitarianism. Humanism believes that man is self sufficient: it conisders man to be the center of the universe and its very foundation, and gives him the status which is reserved for God in theistic thought".....

[jumping around and I gotta jet out but...]

"In a sense Renaissance is the revolt of the secular power against spiritual authority......western civilzation is , to its core, nourished from the spring of humanism; the belief that man is the measure of all things runs like blood through the veins of Western philosophy, art, politics and economics. If during the Middle ages and before the Renaissance the social and private life of the Ruropean man is governed by a distorted form of religiosity which keeps a small flame of belief in God Alive in his slumbering heart, with the advent of the Renaissance, hidden polytheism becomes unabashed and straightforward atheism. Here man sees no reality but himself, and like Narcissus, falls in love with his own beauty, becoming at once the whorshipper and the worshipped.....

I GOT A GREAT POINT OF THIS ALL...so stay tuned...

[Monny JcIntosh]

Hk, maybe have a look at Kierkegaard, if you're interested in humanism leading nihilism? He (maybe like you?) thought only religion could fill the void. His is a Protestant Christian point of view, I get the impression that isn't yours, but it probably translates. "The Present Age" is a great introduction to his main points.

[Hk]

I've had a brief intro to philosophy Mista McIntosh, but the spirit of it was quite sterile. I am just quoting from an article I've been digesting and, in a swooping way, accurately heavy.(glad you're not taking it personal, which again shows, to me, how cool of cat you are, seemingly).

...thus I continue.....(brace yourself folks)

"The new age of the West begins with humanism, and the humanist denies having any sort of relationship with God, whether in the sphere of nature or in the realm of spiritual guidance. He considers the will to power to be the only effective factor in shaping his destiny. Humanism gives such absolute freedom to the human will that it gives man permission to do whatever he desires". (tis prolly why The Creator warns us about those who live by their desires...but I digress) "In the words of Dostoevski, 'if God did not exist everything would be permissable".

...just a second for reflection....doesnt this remind you of some members ignorant posts about "organized" religion. It doesnt, well then let me continue and I am intentionally aiming this intellectuall cannon dead at em.....

"...in a creation without a creator, the humanist is born into a world which begins and ends in itself and has no purpose beyond itself. Having, for unknoown reasons, been given and opportunity, man recognizes no purpose other than to enjoy 'the fruits of the earth' and satisfy his instincts and desires. And in this journey, which begins in oblivion and ends in oblivion, nothing blocks his path except an insensible, rebellious, and savage nature. In this pitiless wilderness the humanist seeks and finds the instruments of power. In order to attain hegemony over nature and to manipulate it as he desires, all he needs is knowledge of the laws governing natural phenomena. Thus, he must seek knowledge since "knowledge is power"......"real knowledge, to him, is that which empowers man to manipulate and govern nature. In other words, real knowledge is technological science".

Now I am sure even the deaf can see the outright connection here, bloody cardinal! The dude is hitting it dead on the head, tis why you find the deaf, dumb and spiritually blind always shouting about religion, there too smart to know that religion, in its essece is true, but man deviates and has to continue along the road to development---I'd think they see this obvious fact simply looking at other salient aspects in their lives like walking, reading, writing, mixing....but no, looks like I am the fool on that one.....

More coming....

[Hk]

(sorry for the errors in the previous message)....

Bump, and what the hell is that proverbial cat eating?.....(tounges pre-tell)......

[Hk]

....perhaps it was churchmice..... :D
well this wont make any of ya happy....

"...Western man and its culture is a systematic movement from the heights to the depths, from intuitive thought to a technological world view, and from preoccupation with man's destiny and faith to obsession with history, a downward movement which, according to Nietzsche, is accompanied by a "gradual nullification of all spiritual values", and which finally terminates in the "death of God" and nihilism, forching Dostoevski to pose the question, at the beginning of The Possessed, as to whether it is possible to be 'civilized' and European and at the same time to have religious faith.

At the very dawn of the modern humanist period, when Bacon and Descartes, ignorant of the holy and divine origins of man and the universe, were setting forth the quantitative, mathematical method of the new sciences and the methodical doubt as the means for attaining real knowledge and increasing man's power and mastery, Christopher Marlowe beautifully portrarys the new man in his tragedy, Faustus, and foresees his future. In search of knowledge, power, and mastery, Faustus surrenders his soul, which is the embodiment of his wisdom, faith and real freedom, to the devil, and realizes his mistake only when it is too late".

The tragedy of Faustus symbolizes the sad and painful destiny of the Western man: a man who, for the sake of his lust for power, and unlimited satisfaction of his animal nature, sacrifices his divine soul at the alter of the demonic ego; a man who in search of a mirage, abandons the spring and denies God's commands, and only comes to himself when he has lost the way back to the spring. And what except emptiness can be found in a mirage"?

Now I aint trying to say this is an axiomatic truth, but if you see the clear large burning realness of this claim, well.....(no disrespect to any one person, well I need to retract that, I got several in mind, but ahhh....to each his/her own....)

[Hk]

I want to apologize partially due to the seriousness of such claims. Although this MIGHT just be the case about Western culture, by no means is this to be taken as an exclusive cultural phenomena.......oh-no, the above characteristics exists in all cultures to a degree, thus my apologies.

Glenn, man I told you this cat reads the Torah and there's many things that we discuss that's much heavier than the above quotes....and again, to point the finger, whether from an individual standpoint or cultural one, shows spiritual immaturity, because most things must start from within(i.e., reflection and introspection of our inner/core self, motives, intentions...etc...)