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Topic: In Your Opinion, what are the issues that will affect the future of house music?
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BigPoppa
Super Star Member +
Member # 2695
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posted
Having read only parts of this long thread, I'd like to jump in. To me the biggest things affecting house are distribution (I've heard many labels and artists bitch about this...the old model needs to be changed) and promotion (quit giving out your promos to every one.) We also need to mix it up. Back in da day we used to play a little bit of everything, but now it can get really boring.
DJs (and all those wannabees) are the WORST culprits at downloading music illegally on the Net. We need to support the artists. Doesn't matter whether its vinyl or MP3s, we all need to contribute to make this work.
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"Upon hearing that he was played by Kiefer Sutherland, Jack Bauer killed Sutherland. Jack Bauer gets played by no man."
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kara
Diamond Member
Member # 2267
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posted
thanks for all the replies 
i think changes in technology and distribution could make or break house/edm, with its ability to reach more people and readily accessible
i read somewhere the other day that those who download the $.99 cent track for the most part go out and buy the album either on cd or vinyl as well, outpacing those who dont do the mp3 download thing. which is not what people thought would be the case.
i'm also noticing more traditional (world music, rock stuff) taking the computer route too ... . or maybe its been this prevalent. but i wonder what the future is gonna bring in light of bands like tortured soul and world music artists like konono and whatnot
anyway, got me curious
[ June 28, 2005, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: kara ]
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Miss Rain
Member
Member # 5233
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posted
this thread is WAY too long to read all of but I did however read MANY awesome ideas!
"Kara, to answer your question the biggest question I have is why do so many of the people who would be leaders of the Underground Dance community insist on railing against the way the community is unsatisfactory to them instead of getting up and making and doing something more pleasing to them?"
The qoute above truly hits to my core! So true!
I am prepared to be lambasted for my stance but I am dismayed by the attitued of industry I have witnessed. Let's stop looking back people and start pushing forward! Let's make REAL and EFFECTIVE change. WHY is our scene so segregated? Why is it that we arent more cohesive?
Why do people in our industry still freak out at paying $5 cover when u know (especially if you're a promoter or dj) that thats what pays the dj budget?!
F*ck it....Im ranting....damn wine! ![[drunk]](graemlins/all_coholic.gif)
Lets all just have a big f*cking group hug! 
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....feel da sound
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DJ Slice Of Cheese & Pickles
Diamond Member
Member # 3127
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posted
quote:
for most normal peeps this shit is all about getting some ass, smoking some grass getting a drink
whooo.. ain't nobody getting any booty at a House Music only party. Nobody dances together, everybody is just out there in their own "SPACE"
quote:
Why do people in our industry still freak out at paying $5 cover when u know (especially if you're a promoter or dj) that thats what pays the dj budget?!
Excellent point, That dam $5 bucks really kills some folks...House is about LOVE not paying Bills
[ June 29, 2005, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: theclubdj ]
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BooYa
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Moksha
Platinum Member +
Member # 574
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kara:
thanks for all the replies
i think changes in technology and distribution could make or break house/edm, with its ability to reach more people and readily accessible
i read somewhere the other day that those who download the $.99 cent track for the most part go out and buy the album either on cd or vinyl as well, outpacing those who dont do the mp3 download thing. which is not what people thought would be the case.
Yeah, yeah... there's been a lot of big talk about this for years now. And label people I talk to are saying that they are finally getting added revenue from this distribution. Overall, however, sales seem to still be way down and show no significant signs of a bounce back to pre-2000 numbers. Staff numbers at labels don't seem to be expanding. I don't foresee digital downloads as being some sort of savior. Of course, I could be wrong.
But I agree that the real problem is a dwindling fanbase. It's like someone said earlier... without clubs there is no house. Ibiza clubs are now headlining rock acts; Homelands festival (a big UK dance event) is headlining rock and UK hip-hop. The US rave scene died. And, it seems as though "club culture" in the US has all but disappeared, minus the occasional Paris Hilton photo op. I would be very suprised to discover that attendance numbers in major metropolises haven't been in steady decline.
So, distribute however you want... all evidence points to the fact that less and less people are going to want to buy.
P.S. Do digital purchses get independently tracked a la Soundscan?
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Moksha
Platinum Member +
Member # 574
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Miss Rain:
this thread is WAY too long to read all of but I did however read MANY awesome ideas!
"Kara, to answer your question the biggest question I have is why do so many of the people who would be leaders of the Underground Dance community insist on railing against the way the community is unsatisfactory to them instead of getting up and making and doing something more pleasing to them?"
The qoute above truly hits to my core! So true!
And yet, a good deal of this thread is made up of people criticizing an not listening to somebody who has taken financial risks in this industry.... aka "getting up and making and doing something"
I always find it funny how willing people are to diss indie label folks (who, along with promoters are putting their asses on the line to sustain this "scene"). Almost every time i see one of the label critics (who seem to have all the answers that they think label heads cannot see) start their own label, their problems and concerns invariably become one with those they once moaned about.
I would like to hear what more label peeps have to say.
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DJ Slice Of Cheese & Pickles
Diamond Member
Member # 3127
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posted
yo. I once gave an OPEN Bar party w/free admission & Buffet and the "house" people still complained because they couldn't wear work boots in the club - get a grip people the scene wil die quickly if we dont get it together
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BooYa
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DJJM3.COM
Diamond Member
Member # 50
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posted
House Needs a Hit Record(not a remix)on someones album.....Point Blank..
For those who are old enough remember back to 4/03/76??? There was one song that broke Disco to the masses. Diana Ross' "Love Hangover" (Originally a response record to Donna Summers "Love to Love you Baby"). Stayed number one for 17 weeks-unheard of for a Disco record at the time....
So The High clout House Producers need to contact any of the Hot R&B artist(of today).... Get them to commit to at least One House Song on their Album, shoot a Video, and OFFICALLY release it.....
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2 shows for your pleasure:
"The Fridays @ 5 Express" &
"The Saturday Night Dance Party"
100.3 Love-FM
7pm-Midnight CST
with DJ JM3....
http://lovefm.fm/
http://djjm3.com
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JoDe Presser aka Marlon Billups
Member +
Member # 987
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
I thought P Diddy was the future of House... or was that Q-Tip?
off topic: Do you have a Live365 broadcast? I seen someone with the same name.
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Rhythmik Soul
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Oak Pk, IL's Best Bedroom DJ, serge
Platinum Member +
Member # 83
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posted
Amerikkka, as well as the rest of the industrialized world, measures success by individual & materialistic pursuits, not by community & spirituality.
Until house music embraces individualistic & materialistic pursuits completely in its content, and completely sheds its spiritual and communal aspects, it will continue to stay underground and inaccessible to the majority of the materialistic driven, individualistic consumer masses.
Thread over.
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paz!
Oak Park's pulchritudinousest, dj serge
ode2nov2 aka Two Americas Mix
A Laptop, A Mousepad, and a Feeling...
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Tristan
Member
Member # 1534
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoDe Presser aka Marlon Billups:
quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
I thought P Diddy was the future of House... or was that Q-Tip?
off topic: Do you have a Live365 broadcast? I seen someone with the same name.
Naw that's not me... that sucka is obviously an imposter! j/k
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www.myspace.com/tristan_robinson
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kara
Diamond Member
Member # 2267
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posted
i don't see how the evolution of house in clubs and community divergent attitude are anything unique - the span of life this music mirrors the ups and downs and debates of almost all genres of music born in communal experience, i.e. 70s rock, jazz, etc. From talk about what is real and what is not, lamenting the past and idealizing it's history, up through the way we sit here in 2005 and TALK and ANALYZE "what is house" ... this too will surpass ... House, as with any music that lasted a time period, constantly reinvents itself. But can it still, will it still ...
internal shit like dissing eachother and business politics is par to the course, sadly ...
[ June 29, 2005, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: kara ]
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SOUL SAUCE
Star Member
Member # 2222
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posted
" In Your Opinion, what are the issues that will affect the future of house music? "
answer: MONEY.
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www.SoulSauceNYC.com
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Keith Thompson
Member +
Member # 3787
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Orion : Konbit:
quote:
Originally posted by kara:
thanks for all the replies
i think changes in technology and distribution could make or break house/edm, with its ability to reach more people and readily accessible
i read somewhere the other day that those who download the $.99 cent track for the most part go out and buy the album either on cd or vinyl as well, outpacing those who dont do the mp3 download thing. which is not what people thought would be the case.
Yeah, yeah... there's been a lot of big talk about this for years now. And label people I talk to are saying that they are finally getting added revenue from this distribution. Overall, however, sales seem to still be way down and show no significant signs of a bounce back to pre-2000 numbers. Staff numbers at labels don't seem to be expanding. I don't foresee digital downloads as being some sort of savior. Of course, I could be wrong.
But I agree that the real problem is a dwindling fanbase. It's like someone said earlier... without clubs there is no house. Ibiza clubs are now headlining rock acts; Homelands festival (a big UK dance event) is headlining rock and UK hip-hop. The US rave scene died. And, it seems as though "club culture" in the US has all but disappeared, minus the occasional Paris Hilton photo op. I would be very suprised to discover that attendance numbers in major metropolises haven't been in steady decline.
So, distribute however you want... all evidence points to the fact that less and less people are going to want to buy.
P.S. Do digital purchses get independently tracked a la Soundscan?
I really can't believe this thread has gotten so contentious even in the face of some industry people giving sound answers/views on the business based queston. Orion, there is tracking of sales via the major download sites especially in the UK, where Musicweek (I believe) has a download chart that track sales.
My two cents from being in this industry for over 20 years as an artist, producer, label owner, radio announcer, and promoter ![[Wink]](wink.gif) (not all at the same time, mind you);
the way forward in answering Kara's question is to acknowledge that it is about more than just what's happening in America. Sales of house music in Europe and some parts of the world are down but still 10 times better than in the US. I wish my sales here was as good as they are over there. The talk about "commercial vs underground" I'll leave to others and just say, house music is in regular rotation on radio in Europe and most countries around the world. Playing both of what some call commercial and underground. Therefore, some labels are doing something right to survive this evolutionary turn that all music is facing.
I would suggest more US labels follow the model of OM records out of SF, Defected, King Street, MAW and a few others. Advertise, promote, let people know the music is out there. House lovers who were in their teens and 20's years ago are now in their 30's or whatever now and have more responsiblities and less time to go hunting through all the 100 records per week that come out. So, some buy compilations, downloads or get mix cds from their dj friends ('cause everybody and their moma is a djs now). Just as the music goes through changes, so does the audience. So, keep updated with technological changes in encoding and digital rights management and stay in touch with your audience, while finding ways to expand to new markets. It's about the music and not the format it's on. Get it to the people in whatever form they want it.
I say above all, make sure the artist/creators of the music get paid inorder to stay in the business and not give up. Art can die without patronage. There's nothing noble about starving for your art. Bull shit to those who want to perpetuate that 20th century blues/jazz man curse. As an artist I demand that we stand up for our right to make money with our art without being call names for it. Oh, if you're gonna call me names, call me "A PAID MF"! aaight!
That's my input for now, I've got to get back to work before I starve. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
[ June 29, 2005, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Keith Thompson ]
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"House music all life long" © KT
www.wakingmonster.com
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Keith Thompson
Member +
Member # 3787
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kara:
THANKS Keith Thompson for your response. ![[popcorn2]](graemlins/popcorn2.gif)
Respect, Kara.
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"House music all life long" © KT
www.wakingmonster.com
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Moksha
Platinum Member +
Member # 574
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posted
Well said Keith... especially on patronage.
I would again reiterate that the fanbase issue is very important, though. Compare what those labels you mentioned were selling 5 years ago compared to what they are moving now. I believe that fans are being tapped by other genres faster than house is attracting new fans. Listening to deep house isn't particularly "cool" compared to other periods of time.
Also, I would ask where promoters fit into the equation. They are an important part of creating new fans... though must also take considerable financial risks to do so on a large scale. What happened to all the big promoters? How can promoters' methods be improved? Why don't I ever have teams of baggy-pants wearing, ketamine-addled ravers handing me flyers when I walk down Broadway on a Sunday afternoon anymore?
Re digital sales tracking: I knew there was a chart, but never bothered to find out the methodology (which I'm gonna go do now!) I assume it is for UK downloads only... ? I would be very interested to see how deep house does, and what the trend has been relative to other genres.
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kara
Diamond Member
Member # 2267
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posted
the only way to survive, is to adapt?
yet feels like we almost all try to control the environment, not adapt with it
[ June 29, 2005, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: kara ]
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Moksha
Platinum Member +
Member # 574
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kara:
the only way to survive, is to adapt?
yet feels like we almost all try to control the environment, not adapt with it
Obviously.
I think it's important to realize that people can't just sit down and, list the problems, then come up with some easy-to-implement solutions. That seems to be the naive direction that a lot of these conversations go.
It's not easily defined, like radio-play, bar receipts, major label marketing, etc. It's not even definitive changes in the music itself (i.e. hooking up with popular R&B singers).
It is bigger things that are impossible to control or harness like market forces, shifting culture, evolving popular aesthetics, etc. Fashion and music marketing people like to track that small demographic called "trendsetters". That demographic seems to be getting less and less interested in dance music.
What it means to be a 19 year old in NYC, Chi, SF or LA today is different than what it was 5, 10, 15 years ago. Leroi, in his eloquent way, got it right... where's da white wimmin? And more importantly, what are they doing? What do they find cool? Where do they go for fun? What do they wear?
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Keith Thompson
Member +
Member # 3787
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kara:
the only way to survive, is to adapt?
yet feels like we almost all try to control the environment, not adapt with it
Adapt or die, right!
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"House music all life long" © KT
www.wakingmonster.com
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kara
Diamond Member
Member # 2267
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posted
re: orion
yes, but there are certain topics or areas that are "ones to look for" as we head on into 2005, 2006, ... 2010
copyright is definitely a big one in my opinion
[ June 29, 2005, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: kara ]
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Martin Red
Diamond Member
Member # 540
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by sergio hernandez muniz garcia, jr.:
Amerikkka, as well as the rest of the industrialized world, measures success by individual & materialistic pursuits, not by community & spirituality.
Until house music embraces individualistic & materialistic pursuits completely in its content, and completely sheds its spiritual and communal aspects, it will continue to stay underground and inaccessible to the majority of the materialistic driven, individualistic consumer masses.
Thread over.
![[applause]](graemlins/appl.gif)
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http://www.myspace.com/martinred
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Moksha
Platinum Member +
Member # 574
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Funky Felix:
quote:
Originally posted by sergio hernandez muniz garcia, jr.:
Amerikkka, as well as the rest of the industrialized world, measures success by individual & materialistic pursuits, not by community & spirituality.
Until house music embraces individualistic & materialistic pursuits completely in its content, and completely sheds its spiritual and communal aspects, it will continue to stay underground and inaccessible to the majority of the materialistic driven, individualistic consumer masses.
Thread over.
Bullshit. The house industry has done just fine (much better than now) in years past. It's not like America was any less materialistic back when house producers were regularly getting paid tens of thousands for remixes by the majors, and house records were moving 10 times as many units as they do today.
And let's not even get started on disco...
I'm as anti-capitalist as any.... but don't think this really relates.
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