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Topic: Catholicism is the only true church, Vatican declares
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kaaos
Gold Member
Member # 5509
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posted
Catholicism is the only true church, Vatican declares
RELIGION | Papal document seen by some as harsh, intolerant
July 11, 2007
BY SUSAN HOGAN/ALBACH Religion Reporter/shogan@suntimes
With Pope Benedict XVI's blessing, the Vatican released a document Tuesday that said the Catholic Church is the one true church and other Christian bodies shouldn't be called churches.
Predictably, the document drew praise from some, while critics called it insensitive and a harsh example of religious intolerance.
But in some Catholic circles, the document was viewed as sort of a Chicago Manual of Style.
"The Vatican is interested in theological precision in using the word 'church,' " said Lawrence Cunningham, a theologian at the University of Notre Dame.
The Rev. James Massa, who heads the U.S. bishops' office for ecumenical and interreligious affairs, insisted the Vatican wasn't building walls, but laying the groundwork for "fruitful" discussions between Catholics and other Christians.
"This clarifies the meaning of certain technical theological terms that had been confusing to scholars," he said. "There's no retreat from ecumenical dialogue nor our love and respect for other Christians."
After 2000 years, were theologians really unclear about the meaning of "church"?
Benedict believed so, scholars said. For him, the battleground was a phrase used in a document of the 1960s Second Vatican Council. It said the church instituted by Jesus and his apostles "subsists in the Catholic Church."
Said same as a cardinal
In 2000, while serving as Pope John Paul II's watchdog on faith matters, Benedict -- then known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger -- issued a controversial document making the same absolutist claims stated Tuesday.
Back then, the outcry was so large and negative that it was widely viewed as a misstep. For some, the new document, done in a question-and-answer format, was meant to address the criticism.
The Vatican said the church's sacraments, creed and succession of bishops are among the elements that distinguish it as the true church of Christ.
The National Council of Churches issued a nuanced statement in response.
"Even though this was written for Catholic theologians, it affords us all an opportunity for more dialogue and more insight," the statement said.
But Jon Nilson, a theologian at Loyola University Chicago, said Tuesday's document doesn't capture the "passion of Christian unity" expressed by Pope John Paul II, who saw the divisions among Christians as antithetical to "church."
"This comes across as 'here's the Catholic Church and everyone else is somehow deficient,' " he said.
Nothing 'hugely different'
Several Orthodox Christian leaders declined to comment on Tuesday's document.
The Rev. Paul Rutgers, a Chicago-area Presbyterian leader, said that claims about absolute religious truth aren't unique to Catholics and may be one of the "great theological battlegrounds" of this century.
"We're seeing a resurgence of those claiming absolute truth," he said. "It gives them a refuge against the storms of the modern world."
Rabbi David Sandmel, who teaches at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago, said he didn't see anything "hugely different" from statements previously made by the Vatican.
Malik Mujahid, who heads the Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago, said "This is a matter for our Christian brothers and sisters to dwell on."
That position was echoed by Glen Fullmer, a spokesman for the Baha'i National Center in Evanston.
"The pope's really talking about the true, Christian church," he said. "Our belief is that God has sent a number of true and valid religions throughout history."
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D J 1 3 8
Diamond Member
Member # 2421
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posted
honestly, is there ANY major religion that doesn't think it has it all figured out? Don't see how this is anything new.
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over 100 free DJ mixes at julianbevan.com
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NakedAge
Junior Member
Member # 12867
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posted
i read in some nostrdamus thing catholicism is gonna end up a dead religion? ..Im catholic, I think all churches are fake ![[Hail]](hail.gif)
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No One Can Please Me Like I Can
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mhd
Diamond Member
Member # 18
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posted
what do you expect from a nazi?
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NakedAge
Junior Member
Member # 12867
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posted
its catholic church....... . You say fuck the pope, belive me I'm sure he'll be up for it ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) . nah thats rude I'm a catholic, I shouldnt be dissing, and I should be backin that mans words, butttt, I dont know...
dont bag a mans beliefs because from our eyes, we're right, from yours, your right.. But really, christian, catholic, jew, muslim... its all the same.. if u cant have one, u cant have the other
[ July 11, 2007, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: NakedAge ]
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No One Can Please Me Like I Can
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liL Ray
Diamond Member
Member # 163
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kaaos:
Catholicism is the only true church, Vatican declares
talk about having a vested interest.
these religious folks (all religions) really want to put an end to this world.
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YOU WISH YOU WERE ME!
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Edith A. Giles is one badasss bitch
Platinum Member
Member # 6467
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by NakedAge:
its catholic church....... . You say fuck the pope, belive me I'm sure he'll be up for it . nah thats rude I'm a catholic, I shouldnt be dissing, and I should be backin that mans words, butttt, I dont know...
Let me make something clear to you, Babe, I'm not trying to diss you or anybody else who happens to be catholic. I just don't like that man ![[noshake]](graemlins/jpshakehead.gif) ...
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Only God can judge me
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Bill Blake
Diamond Member
Member # 241
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posted
I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone, regardless of religion, that didn’t think whatever their identity was to god, wasn’t the true one; that would include anyone on this thread, religious, that disagrees with Pope, ironically, assuming that their take is more truer than his.
At least, and like the Catholic Church, they attempt to put forth, no matter how fleeting, clear arguments for their stance; that’s more than I can say for most ‘churches’.
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MarkK
Star Member +
Member # 1868
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posted
Did you expect him to suddenly say years of belief are wrong??? Ha ha
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NakedAge
Junior Member
Member # 12867
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posted
i dont know him well enough to hate him, im sure if i become a choir boy we'll get along great though ![[snoopy]](graemlins/snoopy.gif) no but,
Catholicism is for humble people.. We dont like to think if what our faith preeches is right or not, we just follow it, our whole thing is "the lord is the shepard, we are the flock"
Personally, I dont think as a faith we have the leader ship skills to go on as a mainstream faith.. But... thats the difference between us and evangelicals and shit.. we dont need numbers in todays day and age. See, if the world ends, and Catholicism ends, we see it as "well thats what God willed, even if we die, he'll save us"
We don't need fancy concerts and shit to re inforce that. We might not like the pope, we might think he's as fucked up as you do, but, he's our pope. He's our spiritual leader, and even if I knew him personally, and he was a complete fucken wanker, I'd still take a bullet for him, not because he's my Pope, but because he's a person. And thats what we're all about. We might die out because the world hates us, and hates our leader, but we'll die being faithful. We don't need church, we dont even need a pope, as much as doctrine is preached we dont even need that, infact, I'd go as far to say that at the very CORE of Catholicism. ... We don't even need Jesus. All we need is the ideas that were passed down to us to make the most of what we have, to love thy neighbour and shit, and a way to get that message across, even spoken word... and we'll carry on, even if Catholicism dies, in name, so long as it exists as an idea, we'll be fine.
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No One Can Please Me Like I Can
www.myspace.com/nakedage
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Edith A. Giles is one badasss bitch
Platinum Member
Member # 6467
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kaaos:
quote:
Originally posted by Edith A. Giles (Lil Mama):
quote:
Originally posted by kaaos:
quote:
Originally posted by Edith A. Giles (Lil Mama):
F*** The Pope... ![[cussing]](graemlins/cussing.gif)
There, that felt better ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ...
OOOOHhhh I'm telling!!! ![[blush]](graemlins/blush.gif)
Tell em ![[toungeout]](graemlins/tongueout.gif) ...
i did and they said you owe 20 hail marrys and 5 our fathers.
![[luck]](graemlins/fingersx.gif)
Well they gone have to wait till payday like everybody else...
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Only God can judge me
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NakedAge
Junior Member
Member # 12867
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posted
did he also say he was going to touch you with the hand of God
I'm sorry.. I'm black sheep of the flock. As much as I love my God, I love to bag the church .. Love hate relationship
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No One Can Please Me Like I Can
www.myspace.com/nakedage
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mhd
Diamond Member
Member # 18
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by NakedAge:
i dont know him well enough to hate him, im sure if i become a choir boy we'll get along great though no but,
Catholicism is for humble people.. We dont like to think if what our faith preeches is right or not, we just follow it, our whole thing is "the lord is the shepard, we are the flock"
Personally, I dont think as a faith we have the leader ship skills to go on as a mainstream faith.. But... thats the difference between us and evangelicals and shit.. we dont need numbers in todays day and age. See, if the world ends, and Catholicism ends, we see it as "well thats what God willed, even if we die, he'll save us"
We don't need fancy concerts and shit to re inforce that. We might not like the pope, we might think he's as fucked up as you do, but, he's our pope. He's our spiritual leader, and even if I knew him personally, and he was a complete fucken wanker, I'd still take a bullet for him, not because he's my Pope, but because he's a person. And thats what we're all about. We might die out because the world hates us, and hates our leader, but we'll die being faithful. We don't need church, we dont even need a pope, as much as doctrine is preached we dont even need that, infact, I'd go as far to say that at the very CORE of Catholicism. ... We don't even need Jesus. All we need is the ideas that were passed down to us to make the most of what we have, to love thy neighbour and shit, and a way to get that message across, even spoken word... and we'll carry on, even if Catholicism dies, in name, so long as it exists as an idea, we'll be fine.
just what we needed, another nut job, you'll fit in just fine here
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Palatine William Wilson
Diamond Member
Member # 764
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posted
1.3 billion Chinese really dont give a shit
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"You have conquered, and I yield. Yet, henceforward art thou also dead � dead to the World, to Heaven and to Hope! In me didst thou exist � and, in my death, see by this image, which is thine own, how utterly thou hast murdered thyself."
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mhd
Diamond Member
Member # 18
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palatine William Wilson:
1.3 billion Chinese really dont give a shit
i'd be careful quoting numbers from fake ass chinese
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Bill Blake
Diamond Member
Member # 241
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by mhd:
quote:
Originally posted by NakedAge:
i dont know him well enough to hate him, im sure if i become a choir boy we'll get along great though no but,
Catholicism is for humble people.. We dont like to think if what our faith preeches is right or not, we just follow it, our whole thing is "the lord is the shepard, we are the flock"
Personally, I dont think as a faith we have the leader ship skills to go on as a mainstream faith.. But... thats the difference between us and evangelicals and shit.. we dont need numbers in todays day and age. See, if the world ends, and Catholicism ends, we see it as "well thats what God willed, even if we die, he'll save us"
We don't need fancy concerts and shit to re inforce that. We might not like the pope, we might think he's as fucked up as you do, but, he's our pope. He's our spiritual leader, and even if I knew him personally, and he was a complete fucken wanker, I'd still take a bullet for him, not because he's my Pope, but because he's a person. And thats what we're all about. We might die out because the world hates us, and hates our leader, but we'll die being faithful. We don't need church, we dont even need a pope, as much as doctrine is preached we dont even need that, infact, I'd go as far to say that at the very CORE of Catholicism. ... We don't even need Jesus. All we need is the ideas that were passed down to us to make the most of what we have, to love thy neighbour and shit, and a way to get that message across, even spoken word... and we'll carry on, even if Catholicism dies, in name, so long as it exists as an idea, we'll be fine.
just what we needed, another nut job, you'll fit in just fine here
Ha ha ha, oh my...I don't think there's an Arch Bishop willing to support this agrument.
But they will bless him for willing to take a bullet for a bull.
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Bill Blake
Diamond Member
Member # 241
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by mhd:
quote:
Originally posted by Palatine William Wilson:
1.3 billion Chinese really dont give a shit
i'd be careful quoting numbers from fake ass chinese
I’d be careful when considering in the last 30 years how effective all Christian religions have been in converting Asians. And they get ‘em screwy in the head.
[ July 11, 2007, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Bill Blake ]
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